<p>I was wondering if all the current domers would post their stats so those of us hoping to get in can look and see what ND has accepted recently. Also, if parents of current students could post their sons/daughter's stats too so that I (and others) have an idea of what we need to shoot for.
It would be a lot of help, so thanks if you can!</p>
<p>I can post transfer stats, but I am afraid my high school stats won't help much :). Oh well, consider this a bump... I am sure the other students will be happy to help. You also could look back, I think we had a thread after letters came out in April with everyone posting their stats.</p>
<p>EDIT: sometimes I can't help myself, here is a link... <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=165489%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=165489</a></p>
<p>Wow.. I went back and read those who were rejected.....
some of those guys had really good stats......
and then i noticed that if you are a double legacy...you pretty much have a spot</p>
<p>Legacy makes a huge difference, there is no doubt about that. I have a love-hate relationship with it. I hated it when applying, but now that my kids will have it it isn't that bad, lol. I think once you are here and understand what ND is you will find that legacy is a must!</p>
<p>I pretty much hate it...</p>
<p>Trust me, I know that feeling. Just believe me when I say that once you are here you will see why it is necessary</p>
<p>Oh im sure its necessary....but I still hate that kids with sub par grades.....and sub par SAT's adn E.C.s can steal a spot from a kids who worked his *** off for 4 years and is rejected.........</p>
<p>Notre Dame is all about family, though. That's the point of legacy. I wasn't a legacy when I got in way back when. My son was accepted as a legacy class of 2005, but with a 34 on his ACT and a very strong application package, I don't think legacy gave him any advantage he didn't already have. </p>
<p>Unlike most other universities, Notre Dame is committed to its unique character and its open embrace of the Catholic faith. Maintaining this vision is key to maintaining the character of the university. To have been a part of the Notre Dame family is to understand this mission.</p>
<p>Harvard, Yale and the other Ivies also make selections based on something other than raw statistics, because they believe a certain cross-section of students best propagates their own mission. </p>
<p>I can honestly say it is not about the money, because I have none and my kids are treated the same as legacy kids of the very wealthiest alumni. I can also say that, despite being barely middle class, the university has treated me with the same respect and feeling of being part of the family as the most well-heeled of my Domer peers. </p>
<p>Plus, quite frankly, some of the obsession with stats is absurd. Far too many kids literally give up on the social and fun aspects of their high schools years to compile this super list and get the very highest grades. Stats don't measure it all... The valedictorian isn't necessarily the smartest in the class, just the one who, for whatever combination of natural ability and hard work, ended up having the highest GPA. Neither that title nor a eyeball-popping test score gives any indication of a student's depth...</p>
<p>This whole obsession thing is kind of saddening to see, really. We had a lot more fun in high school in my day, before this mad dash of obsessive resume-building hit the scene.</p>
<p>Oops, my son was accepted and graduated high school in 2005. He is now an ND soph, class of 2009. Amazing how you can only have three kids and still manage to get dates screwed up! Must be the middle-aged thing :)</p>
<p>DDJones... I totally agree with you about the family aspect...</p>
<p>But I hope that you can accept my bitterness...due to the fact that I will be applying with no legacy what so ever... I just feel bitter that someone who is less-qualified than me will get in just because his mom went there.... Do you understand where I am coming from? By no means am I disagreeing with you...I totally agree with your family ideals
And trust me...even though im concerned about college... in no way am I wasting my high school years by building up some college resume</p>
<p>Chillin, I can relate as I know someone who had legacy and very very similar stats to mine who got in the first time whereas I didn't. However, the best thing I can tell you is that it works out as it is meant to work out, even if it may not seem like it. If I could go back and change things, I would still go to Creighton and still be a transfer. </p>
<p>I know what you are feeling, I went through all of this as well, but just have faith in the fact that somehow it will work out for the best. It doesn't make it fun now, however, I know that :(. It will make it better once you get here though as it is something that makes ND special. It is nice to come here and know that your children will have an advantage in getting the same education and experience that you did. </p>
<p>It is hard to explain but it turly is just part of what is Notre Dame, if that makes any sense.</p>
<p>I know I know.. it makes sense.. its tough to accept for someone in my shoes.... but i totally understand how the current and past domers feel about it</p>
<p>I understand your sentiments, chillin, I really do. I'm just trying to point out that the legacy factor is about more than tweaking a donor base; it is about tradition. </p>
<p>The flip side of this is that there are plenty of legacies who get in and would have gotten in regardless of status. I recall my son's Spanish teacher--they were not the biggest fans of each other--making a flippant remark to me along the lines that my son only got in due to legacy, when the reality was he was above the mid-50% range in nearly every aspect of the application. Kind of like when I got a job with a prestigious brokerage at the age of 24, and a lot of people in the office referred to me as a quota hire due to my gender--this, despite a Finance degree from Notre Dame with an emphasis in investments. </p>
<p>I was not a legacy when I got in back in the spring of 1980. Back then, it was guys who got the breaks, as there was a major reverse quota against women, who'd just been admitted. It took a lot more for a woman to get in those days than a guy, by sheer virtue of the 3 to 1 gender ratio they were maintaining on campus. Then there were what they call "faculty brats"--kids of professors...</p>
<p>As Rosanna Rosanna Danna used to say on SNL, "it's always something!"</p>
<p>Just remember, 75% of the student body is NOT legacy...the vast majority, in fact... Once upon a time, I was part of that figure.</p>
<p>Just a quick note for you to think about: Son was accepted last fall EA, Notre Dame Scholar, etc. and was NOT a legacy. In fact we had little or no connection to the University. Husband's fellow employee whose son also applied was REJECTED! Double legacy (both parents) plus he has a brother that is a senior there now. Don't know his stats, but in my heart I have to believe that while ND does try to consider its legacy applicants, they are still going to try to admit top, passionate students. As I said before, I believe they look at the WHOLE package during admissions.</p>
<p>True True...
I agree with everything you both are saying...
But I guess I wont fully apreciate what you are saying until I am accepted to ND.. and realize what advantages my children will have</p>
<p>That's what I don't think you're getting. Legacy is not about handing somebody a shortcut, it is about keeping traditions alive. Again, every one of the Ivy's at one time or another was affiliated with an organized religion. One by one, they moved away from that, and became secular to the point of nearly ridiculing religion as if it were some sort of anti-intellectual superstition. Notre Dame is one of the few elite universities in the world, which openly embraces its religious roots. Legacy is one means of maintaining the continuity of that mission from people who understand it.</p>
<p>My father-in-law died just one week after my son's freshman orientation. All of us were very close, but my father-in-law, a Korean War vet, had expressed that he didn't want our son to disrupt the early part of his college and Navy ROTC career. The funeral was taking place 8 hours away. I sent off a quick e-mail to the assistant rector who lived on my son's floor. Turns out they dedicated a weeknight mass to his grandpa, let my son read a eulogy, and afterwards, had a mini-wake in the AR's suite. All of the guys in his section showed up, along with nearly every freshman in the dorm and a bunch of NROTC guys in another dorm. </p>
<p>That is what the University of Notre Dame is about. I've been through enough tragedy, had classmates been through enough tragedy, to see how the place and its people respond to things with great faith and love. That's how I knew to e-mail the asst rector, because I knew the kind of place it was and is. </p>
<p>Sure, there is the football and the elite academics, the prestige of the degree and the strength of the network. More than anything, though, Notre Dame is a family of faith. Those who have been there understand that, and want it for their kids. Having grown up around it, their kids get it, too. </p>
<p>There are plenty of elite academic universities. There are plenty of public institutions with tremendous programs and generous merit scholarships.</p>
<p>But there is only one University of Notre Dame. </p>
<p>That's the best explanation of legacy I can give. Suffice it to say, it's about a lot than some random advantage as an enticement to bigger donations. And remember...it's only 25%--actually 22% of the student body, which is legacy. The vast majority of them would have gained admission without it.</p>
<p>At first, I was also a little wary about someone with lesser stats getting in over me just because his parent(s) went there. I now realize, though, that even if you're a double legacy, you still have to be one of the top students in your class and have very good test scores. Many other factors also play in the admission decision.</p>
<p>Notre Dame accepts the students that they think will be the best at Notre Dame, not just the one with the highest SAT score, or the most AP classes taken.</p>
<p>ya.. my rep said that the average sat for legacy it 1380.... so by no means are those kids gettn free rides in to the best college on N.A. (IMO)</p>
<p>I am not sure if that is accurate or not. I know that the legacy kids are smart and many have high SATs, but I heard from a very good source that the average SAT for non-legacies is a 1495! I say this not to depress everyone, because obviously they look at a lot of different things and kids with lower stats get in too. I just say it because I doubt the legacy stat.</p>
<p>However, what I will say is you really can't tell who is a legacy and who isn't in a class, so they have to be pretty darn smart! You don't get into ND unless you are bright. Period.</p>
<p>"but I heard from a very good source that the average SAT for non-legacies is a 1495"</p>
<p>I just threw up</p>
<p>You really know how to crush dreams irish.... hah </p>
<p>jk.. but seriously you do</p>