<p>and i think college app's should be blind of race and socioeconomic status (not in financial aid, just plain ADMISSION)</p>
<p>^^^I do think that will be the case one day, but it's not time yet IMO. If there was never the long established legacy of using race to keep people out of schools, there would not be the current practice of considering it today to get people in. But it was, and so it is.</p>
<p>There are many different racial minority groups, such as African-Americans, Asians, and Hispanics. Asians are typically accepted to universities at rates higher than what they represent proportional to the population, and thus they are not "underrepresented minorities." Just thought I'd clear up that "paradox."</p>
<p>"and i think college app's should be blind of race and socioeconomic status (not in financial aid, just plain ADMISSION)"</p>
<p>If you argue that case, then you must agree that it should be blind of legacies as well?</p>
<p>Leetxy or whatever, seriously, the only reason you even started this thread is because you didn't get in first round. Had you gotten in the possible impact of Affirmative Action wouldn't have even entered your head. And mediocre credentials DOES NOT signify mediocre intelligence. You probably worked VERY HARD in high school and did nothing significant to show that you were honestly passionate about anything. And may I remind you that even though UNC is a big school, you weren't the only one deferred or rejected. As a matter of fact, there are lots of kids, regardless of race, who got turned down. And people harp on Affirmative Action but what about idiotic legacy kids or kids who got in because of parental contribution to one of UNC's many purely symbolic efforts to show its progressive-ness. This is ridiculous and you should really consider looking at your other options rather than toiling endlessly on this one school and ONE POSSIBLE REASON YOU DIDN'T GET IN. </p>
<p>Besides, I am a sophomore at Carolina and I hate this school and this town so I think the admissions might have done you a favor. Though, if you really think like I perceive you to, you might have actually enjoyed this school.</p>
<p>African-Americans (and I'd appreciate it if you stopped referring to us as "blacks") are not the only ones benefiting from Affirmative. Before you come out trying to lay all of your short-comings on our doorsteps you should really consider what you are saying and think about why you think the way you do. Affirmative Action is no more racist that you are...AA supposedly picks on Asians for being too prevalent at top universities and you peg African-Americans as the source (but not necessarily) the cause of your not getting in. Get over yourself, life is too short and in about 20 years it really won't matter to you anyway. If you're really as AWESOME as you seem to think you are then you should be fine just about anywhere.</p>
<p>Lulu,
Like someone earlier said, Asians are NOT under represented minorities and affirmative action doesn't help them.</p>
<p>JazzMessenger,
I don't think African Americans as the "source" and I don't really believe there is a single "source"...but I hate how stupid legacies get in almost automatically :(
BTW, why do you hate UNC so much?</p>
<p>Umm...I just don't like the atmosphere. Don't get me wrong though, if you've visited the campus and you think that you'll like it then by all means come. Most of my friends here LOVE CAROLINA. It's just not my scene. WWWAAAYYY too prepster...somewhat elitist...and something about the town of Chapel Hill doesn't sit well with me because the area immediately around campus is comprised of big houses sheltering rich people who like to fancy themselves progressive or liberal or WHATEVER...however, a mile or two off campus and you see (or I should say you're likely to never see) the "darker" side of Chapel Hill, and by darker I mean that both literally and figuratively. I came from a diverse high school that was about 30% white, 40% black, at least 20% hispanic...I'm used to diversity and culture and, whether it isn't actually here or I'm just choosing not to see it, this school just doesn't fit my bill.</p>
<p>BUT...like I said...if you think you'll like it here just fine then definitely come. I hate being the partypooper...make the decision up for yourself. Had I thought out the whole college admissions bit for myself I never would have chosen Carolina...I never wanted to go. Make sure that this decision is for YOU AND NO ONE ELSE...only you can be responsible for your actions and choices and because you are the primary proprietor of your life's successes and failures I strongly encourage you to ignore the elitist douche-bags on this site and think about what YOU want from life. AND DEFINITELY VISIT. </p>
<p>I hope that helped...GOOD LUCK...college life is truly awesome...even if you don't like the school.</p>
<p>Jazz. It is never too late to live your life for yourself.</p>
<p>"Had I thought out the whole college admissions bit for myself I never would have chosen Carolina...I never wanted to go".</p>
<p>Sometimes we have to forget about what our parents, friends, etc want for us and do what we want. Now that you are a sophomore transfer to the school of "your dreams" not someone elses. It sounds like you have an upbeat personality. Go live your dream!</p>
<p>Thanks snoz, I'm trying :-)</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. There is no way that Asians benefit from AA, in all the research i have done. It's the African Americas who are "getting fat" off of being spoon-fed affirmative action. I know at least 3 black people very well and this one white girl who did far worse than me on EVERY part of the college admissions process and got into UNC. Notice I am just using UNC as an example, since it is a legitimate state school. They even contact me asking me that if I felt mad or not because they got in and I did not. They acknowledged that their race had something to do with it.</p>
<p>Also, just because a higher percentage of Asians go to colleges does not mean it is fair at all. What do we do with the rest of the asian population that has worked so hard? Why penalize them and let someone else far less deserving take their spot just because they are "people of color"? That is ridiculous. There aren't that many people of the Asian minority anyway (4%), and by only taking a percentage from each race pool, asians are being actively held from getting into college. After all, 5% could mean 1000 asians but 50,000 blacks. Say 900 of those asians were qualified and only 900 of those blacks were qualified and deserving. Why give the spots away to the less qualified and thereby taking from the few and more qualified when the numbers will still be heavily and unfairly skewed toward the majority (blacks).</p>
<p>This is all I have for now and this has been puzzling my mind. I am not trying to cause a riot, I just want to show how clearly unfair this is. After all, in this case giving some a opportunity means taking some opportunities away from others. They must be deserving ENOUGH to take this opportunity, ya know?</p>
<p>"took my spot"....qualified...deserving...let's play AA catch phrase bingo...any others?</p>
<p>Ooooh! I just LOVE these discussions! (rubbing chin thoughtfully) okaaaaay . . . where do I start?</p>
<p>Lulu: "underrepresented minority" (the redundancy of which you so aptly, observed) is probably an "oxymoron", but is definitely not a "paradox."</p>
<p>Jazz: Love your passion, but I gotta disagree. Lots of "Blacks" don't necessarily consider themselves "African- American" (Caribbeans, Africans, other foreign-born peoples of the darker-hued persuasion). I think it's unfair to pepper peeps w/politically correct preferences. Don't you? Soon no one will know WHAT to call "peoples-of-the-african-diaspora-or-of-african-descent-if-they-so-choose-to-identify" without getting into trouble!</p>
<p>Leetxy: I sympathize. I was watching American Idol the other night. They sent home a poor hispanic single dad and black single mom of a disabled kid (!!) -- and KEPT a white guy who bombed his final audition and cried like a BABY!! You're right. That AA is a b*tch!</p>
<p>Now. About the socioeconomic/race thing. Life's not fair. Colleges don't have to be fair to you. Their commitment is to education. Most institutions of higher learning have come to the conclusion that diversity for diversity's sake is a GOOD thing. It promotes dialog, education, and cultural appreciation -- especially when you're able to find qualified candidates. </p>
<p>They've also found that the metrics that predict failure in some ethnic groups aren't always the best method to evaluate others. Further, 1st generation economic viability is not an indicator of "wealth." Per capita, whites (and asians) still have the distinct edge over blacks when it comes to "wealth." A decent paycheck doesn't mean much when loss of a job can devastate you entirely. So the "privileged black kids" against whom all the AA outrage is channeled -- actually aren't so privileged after all. They need the leg up to begin to BUILD the wealth that everyone thinks they already have.</p>
<p>So guy - <em>shrug</em> Life'll never be fair. To play to win, we all have to quit blaming our failures on others' successes, and grab our opportunities where we can. </p>
<p>Best of luck to ya!</p>
<p>^^^ Well said.....</p>
<p>i know its not fair.. why should the priviledged black kids get the leg up to wealth when other people deserve it more, need it more, and earned it? The priviledged black kids may not be ridiculously wealthy, but must be better off than someone of another race who is just on the bottom of the spectrum. Why should their hard work and chance for a great future be compromised so that a CERTAIN MINORITY can be spoon-fed?</p>
<p>Deserve? Entitled? who is to say any of our kids fit that criteria? After a pretty devastating denial for my daughter, who I have to say has really worked very hard to get to where she is, seriously felt the sting this week when two kids from her school got into the school she was setting her hopes on. Both of them were boys. One is white the other african american. Both boys do not take school seriously, sort of coasters along for the ride. One of the boys I know his mom is speechless that he got in, as she told him he would not because she knew he does no work to gain that spot. A 65 average in AP Literature yet this school accepted him anyway. The other boy has never taken an AP course at all. Strictly middle/upper class professional parents. </p>
<p>Looking at it as a parent with a child that was the receiving end of it I have to say, my daughter deserved it more because she worked harder, yet I also have to look at it what good is it to enroll only girls like my daughter, and no boys?</p>
<p>CBK, I can imagine how upset your D must be. I am so sorry about your experience! You're right. Schools are increasingly struggling to maintain gender diversity in an era where female enrollment is outpacing that of males at an alarming rate. I know this is a tad off-topic, but what steams ME -- is that despite the educational strides made by girls like your D, pay equity has STILL not been reached, and men still dominate Fortune 500 boardrooms.</p>
<p><em>smiling</em> @ leetxy -- dude. I have no idea how many schools you've applied to, and it's not clear if your bitterness stems from rejection from one school, many, or whether it's actually totally premature. What IS apparent, is that the only dialog you really want to have in this thread is a vitriolic rant aimed at a "CERTAIN MINORITY." That's too bad. Because that means it will make absolutely no difference to you when I say this:</p>
<p>True "Affirmative Action" is no longer pervasive in higher education. A conservative Supreme Court has seen to that. Most schools now use race/ethnicity only as one of several "factors" used to tip the scales between equally qualified candidates. </p>
<p>Let me explain what this means, leetxy -- so we can be very clear on this: Since Asians and Whites typically score highest on standardized exams, an "equally qualified" WHITE person took your space; probably NOT a "CERTAIN MINORITY." The reason they took your space is -- when colleges considered ethnicity "as a factor", they discovered that Asians were overrepresented at the nation's most prestigious colleges & universities. To increase diversity, it may be that in some cases, ethnicity will work AGAINST certain applicants. </p>
<p>If certain schools admitted only every Perfect Score and Top 5% who applied, they'd find it difficult to fill their first year class. The same kids apply to the same schools, and they can only choose one! SOOOOO . . . schools must logically reserve a certain percent of spaces for "diamonds in the rough." Kids with potential to make history if given the chance. Kids who'll definitely say "yes!" if admitted. </p>
<p>As among this second group w/not-so-perfect scores, you may have better stats, but you've been already been ousted by your peer group. So you're not actually even in the pool with this group. They're being compared against each other.</p>
<p>Moreover, ethnicity is only one of many factors used to tip the scales. Others include ECs, legacy, disability, special talent, 1st generation, hardship, etc.</p>
<p>There are poor kids who aren't "deserving", and rich kids who'd be 1st generation - of all races. Hard to say what schools are looking for in a particular class. Perhaps your stats just weren't enough on a given day! Like I said before -- quit whining. Start applying. The wider your net, the greater your opportunity.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Lots of "Blacks" don't necessarily consider themselves "African- American" (Caribbeans, Africans, other foreign-born peoples of the darker-hued persuasion). I think it's unfair to pepper peeps w/politically correct preferences. Don't you? Soon no one will know WHAT to call "peoples-of-the-african-diaspora-or-of-african-descent-if-they-so-choose-to-identify" without getting into trouble!
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Couldnt agree more. I'm friends with several black people, and I have actually asked them just that question: "Do you want me to call you black, or African-American?" Their response was, "We have black skin, and we're proud of it." I think in formal discussions African-American is the correct term (I have no problem with it), but it seems like no matter what, someone with dark skin is upset. African-American is too PC, or not PC enough. And what about the African-Americans who really aren't African? Do we call them black, but not anyone else? </p>
<p>This isn't meant to offend anyone, it's just something I'm truly curious about. Now is a good time for this to be addressed I think, since most of us whites (forget the caucasion nonsense) really want to be polite and courteous, but are left feeling like someone of the darker races are always offended by what we call them, be it "black" or "African-American."</p>
<p>^I don't know that a thread with this title is going to get the best sample for your question.</p>
<p>yea sorry oxymoron...you can probably tell i forgot to study for my AP language terms test...sry</p>