After what point does it not get better?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am thinking about the wonderful graduation party my daughter and her housemate gave themselves last June: In October of her freshman year she had only met one of the 20-25 classmates at that party, who represented all but a couple of her close college friends. (That’s a little technically not true, since another of the kids at the party was a woman she has been friends with off and on since they were 6, but who took a gap year before starting college, so she wasn’t around that first year.) She wasn’t totally in love with her college that first quarter, although I don’t think she ever made it all the way to “unhappy”. But she didn’t find the people she was really going to click with until late winter / spring. And the one “permanent” college friend she had met at that point was so unhappy then that she was already filling out transfer applications (which she never submitted, because things got better for her, too).</p>

<p>Also, if I look at my son, now a third-year student, and I think about the 10 most important people in his college life, he had only met 3 or 4 of them at this point two years ago, and only one of those was on the list of friends he talked about then. His life is pretty much divided among his major and two extracurriculars, all of which he loves; back then he had a different prospective major, he had only just started one of the ECs, and he hadn’t even thought about the other yet. He said he was happy then, and he is clearly happy now, but almost everything important about his life changed between then and now.</p>

<p>Anyway, just because things got better for my kids doesn’t mean that they will for the OP’s kid. The Greek issue is disturbing – one of the things that I would do if it were my kid would be to have a "When in Rome . . . " discussion. When you go to a school that has one of the heaviest Greek participation rates in the country, maybe you should join a sorority. But I think October is way too early to be hitting the panic button. Few people I know had linear social experiences in college – freshman year in general was a year of making wrong choices and then figuring out that they were wrong, and how, and doing better next time.</p>

<p>neltharion: This is especially directed to you, since we’re talking about your college. And you’ve been there, what?, 5-1/2 weeks? Dude, give yourself some slack.</p>

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<p>GracieBee - I work with young adults and as one said to me, “I just need to find some friends who aren’t either puking in wastebaskets on the weekends or gathering around the tree to pray.” I hate to say it, but 70% Greek usually translates into a lot of heavy, dangerous drinking. </p>

<p>I think joining service groups or other community spirited, purposeful groups might eventually lead to like minded friends, but your daughter may be someone who will have the best friendships with adults. At an LAC she will have opportunities to get closer to professors and she may find that closer relationships with them. </p>

<p>In the meantime, I would just listen, tell her there are other options if she is really unhappy, and hope she can find students like her. Those calls from stoic kids who are trying their best in a tough environment are heartbreaking, I hope things improve for her and for you.</p>

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<p>"I hate to say it, but 70% Greek usually translates into a lot of heavy, dangerous drinking. "</p>

<p>That’s all I knew about the Greek system before my daughter pledged. Apparently, that’s a gross overgeneralization.</p>

<p>“In the meantime…does the school have any community service projects? If so, she could get involved with some and perhaps makes some friends thru there.”</p>

<p>What I now know about the Greek system is they are very into community service projects. Admittedly, the guys might be hungover on the food sorting line, but that is what they do, community service. So I suspect if she really, really is not into the Greek system she may have trouble finding community service options in a 70% Greek school that are not sponsored by some fraternity or sorority.</p>

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<p>There are many different Greek groups, some love to party, others not so much. My brother was in a Greek system with a bunch of engineering majors - parties…his house not so much. Perhaps those that are at heavy Greek schools need to really study each chapter. They definitely have different personalities. Some are very athletic oriented, some are very service oriented, some are oriented around academics… I’m not very pro-Greek but I do know that the groups or houses can be very different what they emphasize.</p>

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<p>^^^^</p>

<p>Although it’s been awhile since my sorority days, what I hear has not changed much. The frats tend to drink more, since they have the booze parties. The sorority houses are “dry” (no alcohol allowed on premises - Panhellenic rules).</p>

<p>Some girls will drink excessively (in or out of Greek), but many sorority girls are not excessive drinkers - maybe just a drink or two at a party. We see film clips on TV of the “problem drinkers,” but many sorority girls are not like that. </p>

<p>Also, each house is different. Some are more party-oriented, some are more “just sisterly”. </p>

<p>For the OP’s D, she may want to look at pledging at a house that is more “sisterly.”</p>

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<p>GracieBee, this really does sound to me like a situation that will resolve itself. Your d is a bit of an introvert; it will take her some time to make friends, and probably to warm up to her school. I was beside myself at the end of my first semester at college, started doing transfer apps, and slowly, naturally, things just improved. It’s hard to be away from home for the first time, hard (tho great, I think) to be a more introspective sort who is not going to love big group activities…but there are others like that, and I have a feeling your d will find them.</p>

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<p>One of the mistakes college kids make is thinking that they will suddenly become socially adept once they hit the campus. If your daughter was not terribly social in high school, has never moved or gone to camp (times when social skills can be developed) college will probably be rough on the friend front. If you have grown up with your friends, they will accept you because they have known you so long and you don’t have to really try with them. In college where you know no one, things are much different. I moved quite a bit growing up and I knew that it would always be tough in the beginning, but if I took my mother’s advice that “to have a friend you have to be a friend” things eventually improved. It takes time and work but if you are sincere, friends will eventually be found. It might be a good time for D to ask herself, what about me do people find off-putting? Am I a total fish out of water (in that case a transfer is probably in order) or do I like it here but need friends? If it is the second case then she needs to actively work on her social skills.</p>

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<p>Gracie - only you can know how much of this is the college and how much is just “your kid.” My D sounds much like yours in the friendship department - she has always been slow to make new friends and has always had just a few close friends and slightly more acquaintances. Even “worse” (and I don’t really know if this is worse, it just feels that way sometimes), most of her close friends are guys. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just one more thing that I - the Perpetual Worrier - obsess over.</p>

<p>She is now a sophomore in college, and while she loves the school, she STILL doesn’t have a gaggle of friends. I have come to realize that this bothers me more than it does her… especially since she seems happy with her friends and her life. </p>

<p>I’m not saying this problem is “all in your head”, because it isn’t. I’m just saying that only you know how much is school-influenced. I’d hate to recommend transferring to another school if your daughter hasn’t brought it up herself. </p>

<p>Hugs to you! I know how you feel.</p>

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<p>That may be an important distinction. My D did have friends at her first school. That was not the problem. For her, the problem was with the college’s broader culture; she felt like the archetypal fish out of water, and she’s someone who is most comfortable when she’s part of the mainstream. </p>

<p>So maybe the prospects of making a successful adjustment second semester are rosier for kids who may just take longer to make friends vs. kids who find themselves out of synch with the college’s predominant social culture.</p>

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<p>Junior D. has stated that her flife quality at college are not anywhere close to what it would be at home. She is happy with college, doing very well academically, engaged in all kind of activities, has absolutely the best job on campus (assistant to Chem. prof), lining in what I call luxury accommodations (aka College Suits with each room having itsown bathroom and TV included in furnished apartment, her car is there with her) and has had and continue having awesome opportunities, like Research lab internship, volunteering of her choice in are of her interest, hiking trip to New Zealand. What I mean is that all her reguirments for attending college have been met so far, and she still misses her home, us, her parents, her homebuddies, her room and our house. So, no, it never gets better.</p>

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<p>Just a suggestion: why not have your daughter visit a couple of other colleges? Right now she has a good frame of reference for comparison, and within a short time of stepping foot on a new “potential” campus she will be able to get a feel from the students there what campus life is like. Have her look at the community posters on the wall at the Student Union/Lounge–they will give her a true feel of the mindset of the campus. </p>

<p>Not too long ago I atended a traditional state school and I knew within a few weeks that it was not at all my style. It was like high school, not highly academic, and too traditional. I had a friend at the very alternative New College in Sarasota, Florida (no Greeks, no organized athletics) and he invited me down for a long weekend. So I hopped a flight and visited the campus and I knew right then and there it was for me. </p>

<p>This was in October and I applied as a transfer student for the January term, right around the corner. Well, I was accepted (!) on short notice, there was space available that just had to be filled (some students had already dropped out). Best move I ever made! </p>

<p>You know your daughter well: is she very clear on what she wants out of her academic community, or is she one of those who is dissatisfied, regardless?</p>

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<p>Thanks to everyone who chimed in. It helps a lot to hear others’ struggles (it helps alleviate the irrational mommy-guilt ideas that if I had done my job better she would be happy, and that there should be something I can do to fix this for her now). Part of why she is having trouble is just that who she is doesn’t fit well with going away to college. But she was adamantly opposed to the local state school, for many good reasons. And she herself picked the school she is at now from among a handful of schools, several more prestigious but larger, and she liked the small classes and individual attention of the LAC schools. I actually tried very gently to steer her toward a different school because of the greek culture at her school but she weighed all the pros and cons and made the decision herself. (Telling her where to go to school would have been a disaster, and strong suggestions would have been counterproductive.) Right now she is very excited about her classes and that is carrying a lot of the load in helping her to not be completely miserable. I think what someone said about missing home and her close friends here really accounts for a lot of the sadness–it is not just that she does not have friends where she is but she does not have the friends she loves from home. </p>

<p>I think I am just going to have to come to grips with this sort of purgatory. I was prepared for her to be so unhappy that she wanted to leave but I was not prepared for her to be as unhappy as she is and want to stay. I feel like I am just holding my breath waiting for things to get either better or worse. I think I need to work on accepting that things may be like this for a while. </p>

<p>I am curious, though, for people whose kids transferrred successfully (meaning that the kids were indeed happier at their new schools)–how did you (and they) know which schools would be better for them?</p>

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<p>Thank you for saying this. I think it’s a great unspoken here on CC. We as parents want so much for our kids. I know I was a commuter back in the day and had decided all throughout my kid’s childhoods that they were going to have a “better,” more “full” college “experience.” For many, many kids, going away is what they want to do and they are fine and thrive, but it is still difficult at the beginning. For the kids who would do better at home (homebodies, introverts, more mature than peers and not wanting to be surrounded by them, whatever) – they subtly get this message that staying home makes them losers, unadventurous, babies, what have you – and it might have been the right path for them all along.
It seems to me that this is borne out by the fact that while some kids transfer to other far away schools, the majority of kids who transfer do so to schools closer to home.</p>

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<p>Gracie, is your question: how did the student know what school would be a better choice (fit) PRIOR to applying for transfer? </p>

<p>For myself, it was based on 5 things: </p>

<p>1) A suggestion from an acquaintance who knew me and my personality.</p>

<p>2) Asking the professors at my current school. I was very close to one of them and he was an Ivy grad himself, he knew my personality was not typical of the “traditional” school where I was at present and he also had a few alternate school ideas for me, too…he eventually wrote my transfer recommendation.</p>

<p>3) Reading online and in brochures and looking very, very closely at what is said about the school. Reading between the lines and drawing good inferences by looking at the clubs and organizations on campus i.e., lots of Environmental clubs, a Trbial/Bellydance group, mention that there are NO organized athletic teams and a photo of a male student with dreadlocks and eyeglasses. Compare this to a school that pictures a short-haired boy wearing a polo shirt and mention of “over 20 Pan-Hellenic groups”…you start to get the idea. </p>

<p>4) Speaking on the phone with a couple of alums, who were very honest when I was honest with them. I told them my likes and dislikes and they told me whethre it would work or not. </p>

<p>5) Visiting the potential school in person.</p>

<p>Of course, there are no guarantees that the new shcool is going to be any better than the last, especially if you pick a school that is the same as the one you are leaving!</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Gracie - It sounds like you are a terrific mother. You have raised a daughter who is able to face a disappointing situation and find the positives within it. She has not asked you to rescue her (and I am guessing what worries you is that she is so stoic and determined you can’t truly gauge the extent of her unhappiness), but has focused on her classes, which is actually a very good sign. I think your instincts were right in not trying to steer her away from her choice, can you imagine how you would feel if she were somewhere YOU thought she should be and she wasn’t happy? That would take the situation from being in purgatory to H***!</p>

<p>I actually think it will work out. She is obviously a pretty resilient kid and sounds like she will be open to social opportunities that present themselves. Keep us posted.</p>

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<p>“But…if this school is really that “greek-heavy” - especially among females - then she would likely have a hard time fitting in there if her goal is to have girlfriends to do things with.”</p>

<p>I agree, and if she stays where she is, I would strongly suggest that she at least try rushing. That’s how female friendships work on that campus, period. You have to work with what’s available. Sometimes one house is considered the “un-sorority” at a particular school and attracts more introverted, non-stereotypical “sorority girls.” At a minimum, just by rushing she’ll have a bonding experience with some of her female classmates. This is also a way that she might discover that the school is definitely not for her.</p>

<p>In my case, as a happy transfer, many things about my first school were a bad fit – weak department in my major, I didn’t fit in socially, the location bored me, the extracurricular scene was not great, etc. I loved the dorms and food and some aspects of the political culture, and I had great professors in my non-major classes. But I wanted to change just about everything else about the experience.</p>

<p>I had some acquaintances at Penn, and when I would go to visit them, an ordinary Wednesday night in their lives (go out for sushi, watch movies in dorm with hot guys, spirit of having fun together) was the most fun I’d had all semester. So I could really be certain that I’d be happier at Penn or a similar school.</p>

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<p>I think it can be helpful too to just realize that each individual has their own trajectory of adaptation. Gracie’s d is finding the academics satisfying and the social side disappointing. But it truly is early days yet–especially if her standard is based on close, life-long friends at home. I’ve observed that many kids are unhappy until Thanksgiving or Christmas because the qualities of their good friendships at home (developed over many years often) do not materialize right away in new friendships at school. But when they go home again (and often find some of the friendships have altered with time and new experiences) they are surprised to find they are “missing” their campus and seeing the both new friends and the old friends differently. While I think staying open-minded to transferring is always a fine option–I think it is way too soon to conclude that this kid won’t find a fit. I seem to know a lot of kids who were miserable in October and then astonished in December or January that their parents would even consider they weren’t “going back”…Although it probably feels impossible to do, I think trying to relax and trust that she will find her way (either staying or leaving) will do the most to help her find her own happy niche.</p>

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<p>Here are my thoughts. As I have said many times (I am getting older so bear with me as I repeat myself), I work with young adults. It is a pleasure. When they come to me with a situation, we talk, I listen, I make suggestions, they listen. And here is the fun part - they actually appreciate my suggestions and sometimes ACT on them! How’s that for ego-building?</p>

<p>I am also a mother of two girls. Both very independent, but one has a lovely way of acknowledging what I have suggested and either taking it into consideration or dismissing it in such a way that I hardly known I have been spurned. </p>

<p>DD#2, however takes any suggestion as an affront to her capabilities. It doesn’t matter how tactfully, artfully, I present an alternative course of action, she is quick to smell it and pounce on me immediately. “Are you trying to say that…” A re-statement that is far more negative or harsh than I had ever intended. Tiptoeing around something does not work with her. She hears the hidden message and is highly insulted by my attempts to sugar coat something. She has said to me, more than once, don’t use your professional crap on me. </p>

<p>I have learned, little by little to just listen. And I mean just listen. I have a sign taped to my vanity mirror that says, “Keep your mouth shut.”</p>

<p>We have come a long way. When she calls now, and she does so frequently, she will say that she needs a sounding board and then tell me whatever is going on in her life. Sometimes, I will ask her what she sees as the pros and cons of a situation. And sometimes, sometimes, I will ask if she wants my read on the situation. More often than not, she now says yes. Even then, I DO NOT say, “Well, honey, did you think of this?'” </p>

<p>Reading between the lines, Gracie, my hunch is that your daughter is more like my younger D. I think if you start offering too many suggestions she will be insulted and in fact you will be undermining her decision making ability. So, I think you are about to undertake the most difficult of parenting duties, just listening and congratulating her on how well she is doing. I loved your word, “purgatory” it is so apt. It is a torture that only a mom can imagine. </p>

<p>It seems in this thread you have two sides of an approach. Only you can know which fits your daughter. Once again, I really hope that by T-Day you are all feeling better and have good things to celebrate.</p>

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<p>Read the OP posts and scanned the others. Gracie- did your D choose this school over others for the academics? If so, and if she likes her classes, that is why she is going there. I met my best friends (we are women, still in contact eons later) in my major, chemistry, not in the dorms. The reason to transfer is dissatisfaction with the academics and not a so-so social life. Years later she may value her education from that particular institution and have made friends once she takes (more) classes in her major. Let her finish the semester and discuss with her the pros and cons of this school again over her winter break. Now she is busy with school and shouldn’t be spending her time and energy worrying about it. I suspect things will work out since she apparently likes her classes. Stop second guessing and worrying until you get a chance to talk to her at home after the semester ends (ie no Thanksgiving chats to make HER second guess things just before finals). It may all be the missing home and would be the same at every place. It is hard to be the parent and only pick up on half the situation, part of the time. Much patience and less thinking is required- hang in there.</p>

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<p>One thing this thread has made me realize is just how darned hard it is to be the mom and at a distance and just wanting your child to be happy. It made me remember a story… my little brother was born when I was 13 years old so I feel like I helped raise him. He went to college about a 9 hour drive away. Once after a phone call home on a bad day, my parents were so worried about him, they jumped in the car and drove 9 hours that night to see for themselves that he was ok. Needless to say, he was quite surprised to see them and was fine by the time they got there.</p>

<p>Not to say that your daughter should or shouldn’t transfer, that’s something only she can decide with guidance from you. Just know that we all understand how tough it is to hear them bummed out on the phone, that helpless feeling because you can’t see for yourself that they’re really ok. Hang in there; it will work itself out.</p>