anyone who does not receive admission letter from UCI?

Transfer Students
41

<p>
[QUOTE]
Even though they make take geographic diversity, I doubt that it's a big part of it.
UCI Demographics
If you look at the home locations it doesn't look geographically diverse to me. I'm pretty sure you'd find similar results at other UCs with more research.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>That's not a valid inference. That doesn't shed light on whether one applicant from an area that is underrepresented has a better chance than an equally qualified applicant from an area that is over-represented.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
That's not a valid inference. That doesn't shed light on whether one applicant from an area that is underrepresented has a better chance than an equally qualified applicant from an area that is over-represented.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But it shows that 56% are from the OC-LA Area and only 29% from the rest of California. The only geographic benefit I see is for people who live closer in the LA and OC counties which are close to UCI. And if I'm correct Gabe, you should be happy cause you live like 5 mins from it so that would mean you have a higher chance.</p>

43

<p>to kudos.</p>

<p>im sorry i didn't know we were in the court of law arguing a case of global importance so that we all must be very formal and such.</p>

<p>obviously, you can't or won't argue with me anymore, so you just attack my "sentence cohesion and arguementive stucture". you cant fight the content, so you just mock the way i presented it? </p>

<p>big man, big man</p>

44

<p>


</p>

<p>Oh yeah, you notice that too... </p>

<p>Everyone, please, stops turning this forum into a debate arena... remember this is a board for information--to INFORM, NOT argumentation--to either persuading others to adopt your view or to argue for the sake of winning the arguments and prove that you are politically correct. </p>

<p>Let's keep it peaceful and informative... yeah? :D</p>

45

<p>
[quote]
Oh yeah, you notice that too...</p>

<p>Everyone, please, stops turning this forum into a debate arena... remember this is a board for information--to INFORM, NOT argumentation--to either persuading others to adopt your view or to argue for the sake of winning the arguments and prove that you are politically correct.</p>

<p>Let's keep it peaceful and informative... yeah?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I was being informative in the part where I said affirmative action is illegal in the state of California. Some people can't accept that and try to convince others that race does matter. It wouldn't be good advice to tell someone that their race will help their chances in getting accepted just because of your own theory.</p>

46

<p>
[QUOTE]
Wing

[/QUOTE]

I'm attacking your argument. It's weak and full of holes. You really just don't know when to quit do you? Ok, I'll take your challenge.</p>

<p>Your premise is that there is a "significant deviation" between white/asians and blacks/hispanics in test scores. Your conclusion is that "blacks don't study." If you knew anything about logical fallacies, you'd know that you're committing ad hoc post ergo propter hoc. Let me dumb it down for you. In latin, that phrase means "after this therefore because of this." In other words you're saying because black/Hispanics don't perform as well as Asian/whites on SATs, standardized tests, and schooling in general; therefore it can be concluded they don't study. You're oversimplifying a VERY complex situation and creating a false causation. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it has little to do with the amount of hours put into study time and more to do with an instutionalized educational gap between minorities and whites that has evolved over the past few decades.</p>

<p>Now it's your turn to provide a logical argument. I can provide you some links, so that you know how to support your claims. That is, afterall, what an argument is; you say something, then you back it up with a logical conclusion.</p>

47

<p>hey jong dang did you transfer? or go in as freshman?</p>

48

<p>All the people are coming out of the woodwork ignoring the precedent of CC and spouting useless information.</p>

49

<p>I think this is a topic that should be brought up with a UC adcom and not debated between your peers. The UC adcoms have their reasons for weeding out over-qualified or under-qualified applicants. Take CAL for instance. They are more than likely to receive hundreds of thousands of applications from applicants of all sorts of backgrouds. The same goes for UCLA. Both of these public institutions need some way of deciding who should be accepted to learn at their institution.</p>

<pre><code>So, how do they do this? There are many factors as to how they select their applicants. In regard to affirmative action, I believe that it somewhat skews the way they select their applicants. I mean, this is a public university. I think it would damage their credibility if all they accepted where overqualified Whites and Asians. Of course, I'm not implying that Hispanics, Blacks or American Indians are inferior to these races. It's that Whites and Asians are more likely than these other races to be pushed to achieve a higher education and at another level. This push is caused by their culture, which in the tangible form are their parents. What I mean by "another level" is that Asians parents tend to not be satisfied with their children getting Bs and Cs in school. The children are scolded, punished and sometimes even beaten for this. Of course, this can happen to all races but I find that it is more likely to happen in the Asian race. Additionally, another "push" is that their parents often award their children with gifts for achieving high grades with cars, jewelry, or accessories. I've seen it first hand. Moreover, I found that most Asian parents tend to be on the conservative side. The parents socialize their kids to believe that working hard in life will bring you success. That is true for the most part but let's not get techinical about this subject.

Now, I cannot speak for Blacks, Hispanics or American Indians since I do not know many people of these ethinic backgrounds. All I know are the "stereotypes" that these races portray through statistics and gossip. I realize that American Indians are a small minority, or rather going extinct, so they should not even be considered to be included in the affirmative action debate. For Blacks and Hispanics, I believe that it is their upbringing that affects who they become in the future. More importantly, it is their culture that plays a huge role for why these races differ from Whites and Asians. Again, I'm speaking for the majority which is what statistics supposedly shows.
</code></pre>

50

<p>to kudos.</p>

<p>i didn't state "not studying" as fact, i even said, "let us assume this." what is fact is that black/hispanics do poorly compared to white/asians. shown in tests, gpa, where they end up in life. your rebut is to say that the system is rigged for white people. fine, then why is it that asians do equally well if not better? you've said i committed a fallacy, when you misrepresented my arguement and attacked it. Looks like you like your straw men.</p>

<p>and once again let me state my bottomline.</p>

<p>Affrimative action tries to make fair what can never be fair. If someone is disadvantaged, your going to TAKE AWAY from the advantaged to balance it out? then why not add all the wealth in the world and divide it out evenly and see what happens? wouldnt that be fair? life was never "fair" to begin with, affrimative action is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to accomplish an impossible task.</p>

51

<p>But, everyone needs to chill with the arguments.</p>

<p>Come on guys! Where is the CC love?</p>

52

<p>If you're going to say "let's assume this", THAT IS YOUR PREMISE. Therefore, as your premise, it's an element to your argument. Now, let's forget all this assuming and take a look at a scientific study done on the topic of hand. Oh, goody, I can't wait for the results.</p>

<p>Link here: <a href="http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-IQgapgenetic.htm%5B/URL%5D"&gt;http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-IQgapgenetic.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
As in many other studies, the black children in the study had IQ scores a full 15 points lower than their white counterparts. Poverty alone, the researchers found, accounted for 52 percent of that difference, cutting it to 7 points. Controlling for the children's home environment reduced the difference by another 28 percent, to a statistically insignificant 3 points -- in essence, eliminating the gap altogether.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>As you can see, performance on test scores has little to do with race and more to do with environment. Thus, your conclusion that "black kids don't perform well because they don't study" doesn't hold water. </p>

<p>Just for kicks, I'm going to cite a government study.</p>

<p>Link here:<a href="http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/inequality/%5B/URL%5D"&gt;http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/inequality/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
For young adults with similar levels of prior educational achievement, blacks were more likely to attend college than whites. Among college attendees with similar levels of prior educational achievement, blacks’ college completion rates were as high as, or higher than, the college completion rates of whites.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

<p>Edit: For clarity's sake, I'm not talking about affirmative action. Drop it.</p>

<p>Edit 2: Just so we're clear you said "Most of them don't." You're asserting that most blacks don't study on what grounds? Do you have a study to back this up? Statistical data? Oh, that's right, you don't have any proof, just a random and unfounded thought in your head.</p>

53

<p>to kudos.</p>

<p>seeing how as you can only see what you want to see ill mark things for you</p>

<p>"Now assuming the above is true, that leads to many variables as to why. One could say they just don't study, which can stem from a series of</p>

<p>*socioeconomic factors</p>

<p>IE they are poor and their parents do not have the education to encourage education. I'm not saying that that isn't factor, its a big factor. what im saying is that they dont study, because they arent acustomed to studying which is reflective of their grades. You can accept that idea, or that they are genetically inferior, or whatever else you can come up with, but for the sake of argument, im just going to stick with they dont study.</p>

<p>now the point of affirmative action is to balance this</p>

<p>*socioeconomic inequity.</p>

<p>but in doing so, it actually creates inequity to those who actually work hard and do study. if anything it is the UC's making these generalizations and i see it as a path toward nothingness. No longer are we trying to be the BEST, for how can we when space is made for the weak for the simple fact that they are weak?"</p>

<p>i never said it was race alone. i specifically said it was of socioeconomic reasons, which is exactly what your also saying. my point is </p>

<p>"Affrimative action tries to make fair what can never be fair. If someone is disadvantaged, your going to TAKE AWAY from the advantaged to balance it out? then why not add all the wealth in the world and divide it out evenly and see what happens? wouldnt that be fair? life was never "fair" to begin with, affrimative action is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to accomplish an impossible task."</p>

<p>edit 1</p>

<p>"Wing, as evidenced by your lack of sentence cohesion and argumentative structure, you lack the requisite intelligence to discuss the educational system as it pertains to minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics. " - kudos</p>

<p>what is "the educational system as it pertains to minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics" if not affrimative action?</p>

<p>edit 2</p>

<p>i'll bet you for every 1 studious black person you find, i can find 4 that are not.</p>

54

<p>
[QUOTE]
i'll bet you for ever 1 studious black person you find, i can find 4 that are not.

[/QUOTE]

It's clear you have clouded views on race. You're also trying to use a small sample to categorize a VERY large group of people. That's statistical fallacy.</p>

<p>I just cited why there is an educational gap. It has ZERO to do with affirmative action. Why aren't you seeing that? It's the tendency for inner-city blacks/hispanics that grow up in an educationally disadvantaged environment. (Edit: Read the first study I provided you.)</p>

55

<p>to kudos.</p>

<p>im saying it as it is. as much as anyone would like to shy away from that fact its pretty much emprical. look around. open your eyes for a change and stop living in your dreamworld.</p>

<p>also, if your only statement is</p>

<p>"I just cited why there is an educational gap."</p>

<p>then you have no argument at all. and as of now we are agreeing of the detriment of the socioeconomic effects on blacks and hispanics.</p>

<p>if thats not the case, i dare you to defend affrimative action</p>

56

<p>Zer0, for the sake of this argument, I never once brought affirmative action in as a way to justify or equalize that educational gap. I don't think that's the solution, actually. I'm not for affirmative action if you want my opinion on the matter. I think therein lies another solution that may not have been discovered or may take years to rectify.</p>

<p>The heart of the argument is that you said point blank "Blacks don't study." I'm asking you, "Where's the proof? On what grounds? Your observations? I'm sure the scientific community would love to hear your evidence as:</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
i'll bet you for every 1 studious black person you find, i can find 4 that are not.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>I hate pulling the race card, but that was truly a racist statement.</p>

<p>Of all places, I wouldn't expect college educated students to stoop so low as to classify an entire race on a few encounters or instances. There's a word for that, it's called stereotyping.</p>

57

<p>Double post.</p>

58

<p>to kudos.</p>

<p>people need to get over this infamous stereotyping is horrible mentality. im asian. i know asian ppl drive really bad. so what, i know its true, big deal. im not personally attacking myself or another specific person. thats a attack on the race in <em>general</em>. and the statement is <em>generally</em> true. i don't think im a bad driver, in fact im an awesome driver. the previous statement didnt call me a bad driver, it merely said <em>generally</em> my race is full of bad drivers. right now im not calling any specific black person dumb or not studying or what have you. im saying <em>generally</em>, due to their circumstances they do poorly compared to everyone else.</p>

<p>edit</p>

<p>o and as for proof? why is it that the burden is on me? its not like my claim is outrageous, more like yours is. wheres your proof black ppl are just as studious as white or asians?</p>

59

<p>
[quote]
o and as for proof? why is it that the burden is on me? wheres your proof black ppl are just as studious as white or asians?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where's your proof that they're not? You're the first one to start the argument that blacks are inherently lazy so present your proof first. Just drop the race argument already. All we're trying to argue is affirmative action doesn't exist in admissions at California universities to advise applicants not to put any hope into having their race raise their chances of acceptance. All you are trying to argue is that blacks are lazy and therefore affirmative action shouldn't benefit them. Two different arguments and first you have to prove to us that affirmative action still exists "out of the book" before saying it benefits lazy blacks and hispanics. So stop arguing over it.</p>

60

<p>o i see, so i start the arguement the sky is blue FIRST, then the burden is on me. and stop putting words in my mouth. i never said they are INHERENTLY LAZY. i said SPECIFICALLY for SOCIOECONOMIC REASONS. at least kudos has some form of reason with him</p>

<p>edit</p>

<p>just for you Iam</p>

<p><a href="http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/prop209.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/prop209.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>