Not sure not wanting children is “anti-natalism”. I know several people who don’t want/didn’t want kids who love being aunts/uncles and enjoy kids. They are not “anti-natal” it’s just for various reasons they don’t feel that is the right path for them.
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Best post ever!!! 
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Thank you @88jm19 - I love this post, and now I’m curious about the book -
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While children, and now grandchildren, are some of the absolute greatest joys of my life, I do not assume that would have to be the same for everyone. I think it’s a bit narcissist to be sure what gives one joy is an absolute must for everyone else, or that others are missing something if they do not have that experience, even though they themselves feel their lives are happy and fulfilling.
Equally, I think it’s overly optimistic to assume that this is always an enduring, unbreakable bond, unlike any other. Sadly, there have been many stories in the news and in books of estranged families, especially of adult children breaking from their parents (and though some are undeniably terrible people, some of the parents thought they were loving, caring, understanding parents, and are horribly heartbroken at the state of affairs.)
People experience what they experience, and perceive how they are treated and how they treat people, through their own (our own) flawed perceptions.
Generalizing about how all people feel, or about how all relationships are experienced, is probably not helpful or accurate.
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I suggest looking at the book on Amazon. You can read the beginning of the book by clicking on “Look inside” without purchasing it.
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For the first 30+ years of my life I knew I did not want to have kids/be a parent, I was much too selfish. I babysat because it was any easy way to make money, didn’t voluntarily offer to hold babies, hated 'baby-talk, etc. H knew this when we got married in our mid-20s. My mother agreed I should probably not be a mother.
Then I decided I did want a child in my mid-30’s. Had one and was done. D is now in her mid-20’s and adamantly doesn’t want children. I’m fine with it but know people change their minds and will be fine should she change hers.
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I would really be sad if my kids didn’t find a life partner. I have a bil that never did get married and while he seems mostly happy, he also seems lonely. I wouldn’t want that for my kids. H would love grandchildren. I would like them too, but not for a while yet :). But if the kids decided they didn’t want any, I’d be supportive (but sad,yes!).
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I want my kids to experience the same love and joy and pride of having kids that I’ve had, and my father had before me. But I can see some of my kids not feeling the inevitability of parenting, and I think a lot of that is due to money, to the amount of effort that parenting takes these days, and the desire to live their life a bit before considering a family.
The effort it takes to raise a kid these days is probably the biggest reason I think. Modern child rearing is really pretty unreasonable: club sports, summer camps, tutors, music lessons, college and the relentless pounding of comparison everyone takes on social media just makes family life seem unfun. Everyone that age knows someone who had a hard time with mental health, social media calamity, academic woes and maybe didn’t get through it unscathed. I think my kids know they got through it but it wasn’t all beer and skittles, and they might not be confident they’ll manage to get their kids through it in 20 years when things could be even worse. Plus we gave up a lot of stuff at our house to get them through and it wasn’t always great for them. Our kids never went to Disneyland, our vacations were usually car trips to see family, we didn’t have cable, they got phones late, they had to play instruments when their friends were playing Xbox and so on. Parenting might be rewarding, but it’s got some costs that they all saw. I guess my hope is to share the upside enough to entice them to dive in.
One of my daughters has been kicking around the adoption idea because there are already so many kids out there, but around our family adoption has had its share of rough stories that make it much less sure than it looks at first blush. We’ll see how she feels when she meets the right guy and where she is in her career at the time a motherhood decision starts becoming urgent.
On the other hand, marriage isn’t as necessary as it used to be so I’m less invested in that for them. If they want a big party to celebrate their partnership we can throw one, but that’s not a sound reason to get married. There are legal protections it affords that are pretty valuable so I’d recommend it if asked, but the symbolism of Forever is so easily cast aside in divorce these days that it’s not the bulwark it used to be. We’ve got gay couples in our family that have outlasted a bunch of marriages and haven’t chosen to put rings on it yet, so the models are there to walk a variety of paths successfully.
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Some people assume perfection.
Marriage or Life partner? Look at the divorce rate. Plus lots of gray divorces, and some might die early.
Parenthood? Kids are cute when they are young but when they get to be an adult, there could be all kinds of problems, plus they don’t listen to you anyway. My daughter used to work at a law firm, she constantly heard the secretaries complained about their wayward children. God forbid, some of them are hooked on drugs, then you lose them forever.
No guarantees that you won’t regret it regardless of which path you choose.
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Exactly, but some of the assumptions can be ridiculous.
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What resonated with me about @88jm19 ‘s post above discussing the book was how many viewed motherhood as the next, “step.”
I see the generation above mine as being very expectant of, “steps,” for young adults AND the sequencing of them in a particular order. My in-laws were absolutely that way: go to college, get married, buy a house, have children. Anything different is not acceptable. The good news (to me) as I read this thread and the one about choosing less lucrative jobs is that the generation that seems to frequent this board is more open minded. What I see in posts are loving, accepting parents who do a much better of job of biting their tongues about life choices made by adult children. But, maybe I am just biased, since I think we’re all pretty cool folks. We seem better able to accept that there is no one right set of steps that should be taken by our adult children.
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I want grandchildren. My parents were awesome, but truly shined as grandparents (they had 2 kids and 8 grandchildren), they loved their grandkids so much. My 5 are close in age, and close to each other (19 - 26). I’m not a baby person at all, but enjoy them after that stage (my mom was the same). When my mom was dying (fast cancer), I was there the moment she realized that she was never going to see them get married, or meet her great grandchildren (her mom passed at 91 with 12 great grandchildren).
I am also very open with my children that my desire for grandchildren is an extension of my most atavistic, “ancestral” basic instinct to reproduce.
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Been married 26 years and totally agree with you and her!
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I’d be a sad, because we are small family and I love other people’s babies (and puppies) - but at the end of the day, it’s up to my daughter. Who has said she is not interested. I actually think I come from a pretty long line of women who were not ideally suited to motherhood. My mom said something to me before I got married about how being married and a mother wasn’t for everyone, and I rejected it, and then…I got married and had a baby and felt like it was really a difficult path for me. I LOVE my husband and my child, but…I also really love being alone and independent and find marriage and motherhood just mystifying and frustrating a lot of the time. I do my best with it! I don’t think I’m a terrible mom. But I would understand why she might not want that for her life.
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It’s hard to say. It’s my kids life and their choice and I’d rather they be single and childless and happy, then be married with kids and unhappy.
Having kids is hard and expensive (especially if your kids want to give their own kids they life they had and which is common here on CC) and while I think grandkids would be fun, I wouldn’t blame my kids if they decided not to have kids. I wouldn’t want my kids to have kids just for my sake. I would want them to have kids, because they want to have them.
As for getting married, that is up to my kids. I don’t think they have to get married, but it is nice to have someone. But, again it’s their choice and marriage, like having kids, is not a decision to be made lightly.
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Thanks for this, I’ll have to take a look at that book.
I just so happened to watch the movie “The Lost Daughter” last night. It has a great cast (including Olivia Colman and Dakota Johnson; Maggie Gyllenhall directed) and was based off a novel by Elena Ferrante. For some reason I started it thinking it was a thriller (?) but no, it’s about the complex feelings surrounding motherhood, the self, and cultural expectations. I found many similarities to the life that spouse and I have led (both academics who had children fairly young, and struggled when they were little) and it really made me think. It’s on Netflix if you’re interested.
My sister and BIL decided not to have children, based in part on living near us when ours were small. Our own children have expressed ambivalence about becoming parents and said that they’ve watched our lives and don’t necessarily want the same things (they are also both quite anti-PhD/academia which is hilarious).
When I was a teen, getting married and having kids wasn’t even on my radar. Thought I might settle down in my 30s and likely never have children. Spouse wanted kids but agreed that they were okay with remaining childless if that’s what I wanted. Instead, we got married at 21 and had 2 kids by 30 (planned). We have no expectations for our kids about any of this. While we would love to welcome our children’s future partners and kids into our lives, our only hope is that our kids feel loved and that they are not lonely. Our eldest says he has no interest in dating and that he’s never had a crush in his life. Whatever fulfilled relationships look like for them is fine with us!
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I watched The Lost Daughter too. I had trouble relating to some of the main character’s actions, but could understand her ambivalent feelings concerning motherhood. The movie was well done.
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H and I are 50 and 40 years older than our daughter, respectively. She will turn 27 later this year and is not in a relationship now, and never has been. This doesn’t bother her. She is focused on developing herself and her career. She would like to get married someday but is in no rush.
I was just the same at her age, so none of this concerns me, but I do hope she gets married someday as I think she may otherwise have a very solitary life, particularly as we are so much older.
She used to say she wanted to have kids someday but lately she is saying she’s not sure about that any more. I would be totally fine with not having grandkids. We may not be around by the time she has them, anyway.