beyond frustrated

Parents Forum
1

<p>I just looked at the grades for our S for this semester: withdrew (while failing); F (24% on final); F (0% on final); D (55% on final). This is at a community college, and comes after he swore to us that he was sick of his friends thinking he was stupid and lazy and was really going to try hard this semester. </p>

<p>Part of the agreement that allowed him to move back home was that he enroll in school and do well. I hate to kick him out (again) but I am at a complete loss as to how to handle this. </p>

<p>I'm just so upset that I can't stand it. We've tried everything- tough love, unconditional love, bribery, threats, etc. And I haven't even gotten to the other issues like driving constantly on a suspended license, drug arrests, etc.</p>

<p>The drug arrest and suspended license came after a visit to a state flagship to visit friends where he tried to buy a half pound of pot to sell, but through incredible luck managed to just get nabbed for simple possession because he never took possession of the package and it wasn't directly addressed to him. </p>

<p>In the past he has lost jobs because there was a party and he couldn't find someone to work for him so he just wouldn't show up. He is not quite as irresponsible these days but there isn't much difference.</p>

<p>He missed 3 weeks of classes this Spring because he HAD to go back to the state flagship to appear in court on the various drug charges, then get his confiscated drug money returned. In each case he could have come home by riding the bus and only missed 1 day of class, but always had some excuse like he couldn't get a ride to the bus station etc. Plus, he was going to get notes from friends and it wouldn't hurt him at all to miss class. </p>

<p>We've sent him to 2 different substance abuse counselors/psychiatrists and both said he was just experimenting and didn't have a problem, even though it was negatively impacting his life in a major way (eg lost jobs, bad grades etc). Because of that, and because everyone thinks he is just the most polite and greatest kid, DW and I feel like it is us against the world and that nobody will listen. We tell the grandparents not to enable him and then they do stuff like pay his car insurance, and give him a car etc. </p>

<p>I'm literally at the end of my rope and am physically sick much of the time, as well as seriously depressed (thank God for anti-depressive drugs, or I would probably be in a mental home instead of just bordering on it <wry grin="">).</wry></p>

<p>AAAAAAHHHHHHGGGG</p>

2

<p>Hugs to you. You guys sound like loving and caring parents.</p>

<p>Maybe too loving. Time to step back. No car, no lawyer, no more CC tuition. He needs to be in college like I need an extra 10 lbs (trust me, I don’t.) It’s time for him to figure out what he wants to do with his life, and you will be right there to cheer him on when he does. But you cannot save him from himself; you cannot extricate himself from every stupid predicament he gets into. He gets arrested? well, the county jail serves three squares a day.</p>

<p>Whose name is the title of the car? Is he on your insurance?</p>

<p>Sit down with your own lawyer (it’s worth paying for an hour of someone’s time) with your son and wife to have a family meeting. Purpose of the meeting is to learn how to indemnify your family against some stupid or careless or intentional screw up by your son which could ruin you financially. The lawyer can describe the consequences now of a subsequent arrest since he’s got a possession on his police record.</p>

<p>No need to kick him out. Calmly explain that he’s got 60 days to come up with a plan- mowing lawns, folding sweaters at Old Navy, bagging groceries- since on day 61 you are charging him $200/month to live in your home. If he wants a cellphone that’s an extra $50 a month. You will always love him and your love is unconditional, but you will not allow his illegal activities to jeapordize the health and safety and financial security of the rest of the family.</p>

<p>Hugs.</p>

3

<p>I so sorry you are going through this. Clearly he doesn’t belong in college. Period. The absolute best thing you can do is tell/ask him to get a job and move out. I’d flat out tell him you can’t live with him. He you just can’t cut him off…help him by putting the deposit on his apartment but make sure he understands that’s ALL you’re going to help him with. It’s making you ill from stress and worry and the best thing, since he apparently doesn’t want to be in school, is to head out so he can do what he wants to do. So yes, tough love time.</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>I’ve a feeling you haven’t been getting the best advice from the professionals you’ve been consulting. From what you’re describing, your son has a serious addiction issue, which is clearly affecting your mental health as well. It’s a family disease, meaning that your son’s addiction is making you crazy.</p>

<p>Keep reaching out for help, and even if he does not get better, you will.</p>

5

<p>Actually, if his idea of how to raise money is to deal drugs, even something as inoffensive as pot, I think you need to have him out of the house. You literally cannot afford to have him living there. I agree that this can be done calmly and even affectionately. But it is time for him to get a job and support himself in an apartment or shared housing. I’d give him the first month’s rent and the security deposit, or even two month’s rent, if you can afford it.</p>

6

<p>You are describing one of my best friends from high school. In his case, he didn’t have serious additiction problems, but floated happily through bad choices without consequence. Of course, in his case, when he got in front of a judge with failed grades, a drug charge and no direction the judge offered to drop all charges if he came back to court with military recruitment papers. It is amazing what the 4 years of discipline gave him. Get thrown in jail for oversleeping, you get out of bed. Knowing that drug tests can send you to military prison kept him clean. He learned a skill, and became an adult. </p>

<p>To be fair, he also saw value in serving his country, though not as much when he signed up.</p>

7

<p>If he has an undiagnosed learning disability such as ADHD its not going to get better unless he is properly diagnosed and treated. Has he seen a therapist, not just for substance abuse, to discuss his self-destructive behaviors? He might need some quality counseling. “throw the bum out” might be fine, but maybe not, given the circumstances that we can’t see given the limited information. I cant imagine ever kicking my child out of the house, unless he was much older than the kid here. Plus, he will only go crash with his friends who will only reinforce the behavior. Definitely make him pay rent, though, and agree to see a therapist and maybe a psychiatrist if needed.</p>

8

<p>try to seek help for yourself too. Go to a few of the Al-Anon meetings, find some support resources for you, and figure out what is best for the whole family. </p>

<p>Sorry you are going through this.</p>

9

<p>Thanks- we already did much of what you suggest. We don’t give him anything other than a place to live and food. We wouldn’t hire him a lawyer and made him deal with the charges on his own, only to see him luck out and get the money back that was confiscated. We took away the car that we had bought for him to use, only to have his grandparents buy him one (this was basically the 2nd one since they paid $1200 for his graduation present to have his first cheap car repaired after he bought a lemon). That one he abandoned for so long that it was stripped and torched by hoodlums. Then the other set of grandparents paid for his insurance for 6 months despite our protests, because “how would he get to school”, and “it will just drive him to deal drugs again if he needs to pay insurance”. Now the insurance ran out and since he doesn’t have a license he didn’t renew it, yet he still drives it occasionally and lets friends borrow it as well.</p>

<p>He also pays for his own cellphone, and while we did pay for his CC tuition, he understands that he has to pay us back now (he paid us back for his poor grades last year). If he doesn’t we will just take it out of the money we set aside for his college, or from the account that I started for him as a kid which I think I can still access.</p>

10

<p>I would see a lawyer asap. And look into Al-Anon meetings. </p>

<p>It’s time to protect yourself, and the other members of your family. Perhaps tough love will guide your son into a new direction.
If you want to offer to pay for counseling, that might be helpful…but I don’t think anythng will change until your son wants to change. One of my cousins has made similar choices. Counseling, multiple rehabs, etc, etc. Nothing much has changed. It’s heart breaking, but we cannot change someone who does not want to change. He comes around from time to time, we will feed him, send food home with him, toss in a load of laundry. No money, no place to stay. It’s belated tough love, but it’s where we are at this time. (((hugs)))</p>

<p>Sorry, just read about the childhood bank account…time to move that money if you can. No point in supporting destructive behavior. Set it aside for positive uses–rehab, counselor, whatever. But it is not helpful for someone in your son’s situation to have access to significant funds.</p>

11

<p>My first thought was learning disability too. Clearly he’s not finding school a rewarding experience and maybe does not know what that is like. That said I agree with pretty much everything Blossom wrote. I would offer him help with any health or counseling assessments and treatments he needs - and if you’ve been prescribed antidepressants you know how debilitating depression can be - but stop enabling slackerdom by insisting he take responsibility and definitely lay down the law with the grandparents that they have to help you help him. You will have to exercise some tough love with them as well.</p>

<p>P.S. someone told me that he made his son write a check for tuition rather than just debiting it from an account. It made a bigger impression on his son to write out the check and hand it over.</p>

12

<p>We thought learning disability too, especially since I was ADHD and one of my other kids is too, but the best expert around says he isn’t, so who knows. </p>

<p>Also, we sent him to counseling and it did no good at all. In fact, we have tried 3 different counselors.</p>

13

<p>M2M- He doesn’t have access to the funds. He knows they exist, but has no idea where, or how to get them :)</p>

<p>He also keeps asking for the money his grandparents gave him toward college so that he can use it to pay us back, or use it next year for an apartment at an across state CC, but we told him we are stewards of that money and he can’t’ touch it.</p>

14

<p>

Do the grandparents know about the issues he’s having with drugs, failing college, etc.? If they know and they still give him things despite you telling them not to it’s time to get extremely firm with the grandparents to butt out now even if it causes a rift. If they don’t know about the issues then it’s time to tell them.</p>

<p>I like much of the advice above from Blossom and others including the idea of sitting with a lawyer as a family to learn to protect yourself from your S’s actions and so your S can see the huge impact from a knowledgeable third party. You should just assume that he keeps some of his drugs in your house or in his car parked on your property. You’re at risk.</p>

<p>I’m not a psychiatrist but I wouldn’t worry about the possible ADHD right now since he has bigger issues and I don’t know if ADHD can even be diagnosed in someone who’s actively using drugs, including pot, which alters their ability to think, their attention span, etc. There are millions of ADHD people who don’t get heavily into illegal drugs so I can’t see any cause/effect there.</p>

<p>It sounds like it’s the drugs that are the issue and are probably controlling your S now and he may be far more heavily into them than you’re aware of. </p>

<p>Good luck with all of this.</p>

15

<p>Just to clarify I wasn’t saying ADHD leads to drug use. I was saying that an LD, executive function disorder, ADHD undiagnosed CAN lead to low grades, etc, and if that were the problem addressing those concerns could help. But I see now the OP has already tried that route.</p>

16

<p>Your son sounds like my boyfriend from high school.</p>

<p>He was very bright but in high school he did a lot of drugs, rarely did homework but managed to get by. In college that didn’t work and he flunked out after one year. I didn’t like his mother much but one thing she did right was she gave him no safety net. He was a grownup and would sink or swim on his own.</p>

<p>A year later when I ran into him he was still doing drugs, was close to homeless and was in trouble with the law. At some point he pulled things together. He quit doing drugs, he got training in performance arts, and is currently making a living as an actor. It took years and he had to hit rock bottom but he did things around.</p>

17

<p>It would be great if you could make him volunteer in a methadone treatment center or some such place. It’s probably out of the question, but if he could see what rock bottom looked like it would be a great education.</p>

18

<p>Lots of good advice. particularly points about legal liability. What ever money you have for him, put it in your name, maybe even in a retirement account for yourself. </p>

<p>College is not where he needs to be right now. I teach at a community college and he is a common story (flunk out of four year,come home and promise to do better at the cc, drug issues, rehab, financially exploit parents, repeat cycle). It is too bad he had the grandparents falling for his talk.</p>

<p>You have probably gotten good advice from counselors. Addictive behaviors are hard to treat. I worked in inpatient substance abuse during the mid 1980’s. The average client had been hospitalized 5-6 times before getting serious about sobriety.</p>

<p>Do join Al-anon. The support can be so good to have during this frustrating time. I am sorry you are having to go through this heartbreak.</p>

19

<p>OP- do the grandparents understand that he is driving the car they bought him without a valid driver’s license? In whose name is the car titled and what is the address on the registration?</p>

<p>I hate to go all DMV on you, but IMHO apart from the emotional stress that this is clearly causing your entire family, the biggest risk right now is his operating a motor vehicle. That has to stop. He could mow down a group of 8 year olds waiting for the school bus-- I don’t need to get graphic on you.</p>

<p>Get rid of the car. Now. If it’s titled in his name, find a cousin or brother in law to come take the car, park it inside in a garage for a couple of months and turn it on every couple of days. If it’s titled in your parents name, insist they come and take the car. If there’s a loan on it, call the dealer and tell them you are about to default and they can come and repossess it now before it gets into a fender bender and is less valuable to them. But get rid of the car.</p>

<p>Then call a lawyer. I agree with the above poster who suggests that a kid who is dealing (even small amounts, even not for his personal use) is probably stashing drugs somewhere on your property. You need a neutral third party who speaks the language of law enforcement and financial risk/ruin to explain to your son what he’s facing after an arrest for possession. He can also explain that your family can’t be expected to harbor a drug dealer even if it is their own child whom they love and adore.</p>

<p>Explain to your son that the college funds are now tied up in a trust (it would be great research training for him to track the money and learn that they’re not in a trust which presumably they are not) and that he can’t touch the money until he turns 30. Sorry. He can get a court order to force you to hand over the money if he’s so inclined. That would also be good real life experience.</p>

<p>You need a five way chat with the grandparents. They are either clueless (possible) or actively undermining your parental authority. But it doesn’t matter. You can explain that you will not allow them contact with the other grandchildren until their meddling with this grandchild ends. They either need to respect the limits you are placing on their relationship with this child (no money, no cars, they can feed him a tuna sandwich and throw his dirty clothes in the machine if he shows up) or they will have no further contact with your family.</p>

<p>This will be very very hard. And I can’t pretend to know what it’s like to walk in your shoes. But I’ve had close friends who have done it- and as much as it’s paradoxical, they report that once they’ve had the showdown with the lawyer and the grandparents, it feels like a 50 lb weight has been removed from your head.</p>

<p>I’m sure deep down inside your son is hoping that someone will set him or scare him straight. You can do this.</p>

20

<p>Sometimes people have to go through tough times to appreciate what they have, i am refereeing to your son, not yourselves. He has had it too easy in many ways. So easy that he has no appreciation for all that you and others, have done for him. </p>

<p>It sounds to me that he doesn’t want to go to school, and i am guessing that you are paying for that. I would stop that right now. If he wants to go to school later he will regret that he blew his chance with you guys helping him out.</p>

<p>I don’t think you mentioned how old he is. Is he even old enough to drink? If he is not, that is something to worry about. Does that make you liable if he causes damage? Anyone that i have ever known, that dealt drugs, got started so they could have their own access to drugs more cheaply or even free. That is not someone experimenting.</p>

<p>I agree with the other poster that said for you to give him a little time and then charge rent. If he is childish enough that he needs to live at home and can’t take care of himself then he is young enough for you to take his car away. There is nothing wrong with having house rules that he has to live by. At some point he will realize that he wants more out of life and will realize that he has to do certain things to get there.</p>