<p>Well, I can tell you that it took a lot of work/hustle, but my D actually had some choices for jobs (between fresh/soph year) that were not unpaid internships, but you learn a lot from those jobs too. Her part time job was in a restaurant. She started as soon as classes ended, prior to the start of her “full time” job. She saw the manager interview and TURN AWAY applications from many other college age students-most appropriately dressed/groomed for job applications and presumably of reasonable intelligence given the highly ranked schools they attended. When she asked him, his response was that none of them had ever held a paying job and he didn’t have the desire to teach someone to arrive on time, prepared to work, to communicate with the public, to work well with others etc with such a short summer season. My D had had summer jobs through out her teens, so she was hired. I would never turn my nose up at scooping ice cream at the Jersey shore as one can learn a lot there too (and one of the jobs that my D actually held!!).</p>
<p>Another touchy issue here is the timing.</p>
<p>If your son attends a college where the academic year is arranged in two semesters, with the first semester ending in December, the next few weeks are the most demanding, highest pressure time of the fall term. To be faced with the additional burden of suddenly finding out that he can’t go home for the summer unless he has a full-time job at home will hit him harder at this time than it would have a month ago or a month from now.</p>
<p>If he goes to a quarter-system school or one where the first semester ends in January, forget the above.</p>
<p>bhmomma: ^^I think you misunderstood my point…
the OP wants her/his son to pay rent…and work full time…
and most jobs, like scooping, are later during the day and at night…
he would still be sleeping until 11…and while I totally agree that this would build important employment skills (heck, my kids have had paying jobs since they were 14 as well), the OP already stated that 20 hrs a week “wasn’t gonna cut it”…</p>
<p>I’m just wondering if this is realistic in this environment, that’s all…nothing wrong with 20 hr/week jobs for summer…</p>
<p>Just sent summer reminder email to DS as well. We gave him last summer “off” given 4 stressful HS years and the impending moves (he to school; we to another part of country). My reminder email was that xmas break needs to be used to sort things out for the summer - and that he has to be productive which can be having a job, doing an internship or research project, or taking a class. His one requirement was to go to one of his school’s many resume writing workshops in the next couple of weeks. While he is on semesters and very busy right now, taking one of their workshops and coming home with at least a draft in place will make the application process easier. I did tell him not to worry about other specifics right now.
So while I’m not quite in the “pay rent” boat, we are absolutely insisting that he find something meaningful/productive and with many January deadlines and a rather passive kiddo…Mama Nag is back!</p>
<p>Sounds Ok to me. The details can be fine-tuned as needed as in the case on unpaid internship. 30+ hours/week seems very reasonable. If he complies and does not make life miserable you can refund the R&B $$$ at the end of the summer as a little back to school present.</p>
<p>I told my daughters if they came home for the summer they would have a week off at the beginning, a week off in the middle, and a week off at the end</p>
<p>If they couldnt get a full-time job, they would be expected to intern or volunteer. They would also expected to be up by no later than 830. </p>
<p>I hate the sleeping in all morning. Drives me nuts</p>
<p>20 year olds need to do more with their time, even if it’s painting, taking photos, volunteering, anything, having a down summer for adults is ridiculous in my opinion. All that partying means they aren’t that worn out</p>
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<p>For two summers during college, my son had a paid full-time research internship at a government agency that started a couple of days after he got home and ended more than two weeks before he went back to college.</p>
<p>I guess if he were in Seahorserock’s family, he would have had to turn that internship down because it doesn’t fit the required schedule.</p>
<p>Surely nobody would insist that a kid get up early if he has a job that involves working at night?</p>
<p>We took a performance standard for last summer: as long as the kid saved up and gave to us the money needed for college (“expected summer student contribution”) we were OK on the money front . . . on the behavior front we talked about expectations of behavior before the move in, including chores, picking up after oneself . . . kid ended up getting three different part-time jobs, quuit one, got fired from another, took off for a 12 day vaction durnig the summer (opportunity cost) and still made the nut . . . like seahorserock noted, sometimes the issues - e.g., sleeping in, - are issues just because they drive us crazy, not because they are intrisically bad.</p>
<p>OP, I was wondering WHY you have regrets? What was it about your e-mail that caused you second thoughts?</p>
<p>Just to reassure everyone, there was more to my initial email. The end of it was telling him how much we love him, etc. In fact I tell him every time I talk with him. He knows.</p>
<p>On other matters, some of my emphasis on the job is out of necessity. He wants to go to Europe with a college group in about 14 months. This is going to be big bucks with none of it being picked up by the school. </p>
<p>Another issue is that he’s sitting on a fair amount of savings that’s specifically designated for spending money right now. He dips into it whenever he needs and I think he thinks it’s going to last forever. But one trip to Europe could wipe it out.</p>
<p>Lastly, I don’t think we are being that harsh considering if he gets a full-time internship we will be footing most of the bill for his expenses. But then at least I feel he’s getting invaluable experience that doesn’t entail sleeping in and socializing every day & night.</p>
<p>Marian, that schedule wasn’t carved in stone for heavens sake, it was a framework in which to work. My point was they would still have some break time but wasn’t going to be a do as little as possible summer, and if full-time work wasn’t available, they would fill their time with something productive </p>
<p>Ps both my ds worked on campus all summer came home for a short vacation</p>
<p>Been there and done that. Sons.</p>
<p>You sent an excellent email. Easier to email sons and let them read them when convenient for them. They pay more attention and have time to react in a neutral frame. No phone call can do that, nor an at home discussion. Your timing is good- right after you saw him so it isn’t out of the blue for him, it gives him time to think about it before the long winter break, and didn’t come when he is preparing for finals. He has time to discuss this with his peers before discussing anything with you (hopefully others he knows are getting the same expectations). You got it out of your head and into his- you can enjoy preparing for holidays without this nagging thing you need to tell your son on your mind. My son and I communicated so much better via emails than face to face during his college years.</p>
<p>You are right to tell him no repeat of the past summer. Our son was only 16 when he finished HS, he worked a lot that summer. The first college summer he did nothing- no jobs panned out, nothing but eating, sleeping, running and socializing (we let him-he had worked hard, tried to find a job and was still young). For his next summer he was told he needed to get a job, volunteer or take classes at our local U (he did that). This was because I couldn’t stand another summer of his presence only doing what he chose when he chose while creating work and annoyances for me. There is a price to pay to live at home. Following summers he had the college apartment and various reasons to only visit us instead of living here vacations and summers.</p>
<p>Little boys grow up to be young adults. They are a mixture of child and adult. When they are home they still want the freedoms of their college life but don’t want the trade off of responsibilites. We parents have learned to live without them- we found ways to do their chores so they no longer have an essential role at home. But when they are home they create extra work- even if they do their own cooking and laundry they still create messes and more groceries to buy. They also have the teenage defiance you faced when they were still in HS- you can tell them to do something but they find ways to avoid it (so you take out the trash so it gets taken…). </p>
<p>There comes a time to say goodbye to the old life as part of the family and hello to the new life as a dearly loved son who comes to visit. This is because a grown child has no place in the daily rhythms you develop and disrupts them when he is there. Fine for a short period but not for months at a time. You can’t go back to the same parent-child relationship of years past when you could control his life and he can’t expect you to let him interfere with your life.</p>
<p>The college years are tough. Still dependent on parents but developing a life without them. Hard to come home but nowhere else to go. Wanting a break from the hard work done in school and not aware of their impact on parents. Still have to parent- give them rules and not just suggestions to save our sanity.</p>
<p>Good job with the email. Plenty of time to digest it and make plans, including alternates when the first ones don’t pan out. Long enough before the next visit so feelings can be dealt with and more can be discussed. You may want to let him know how it affects you when he is home- any resentments et al. You no longer are sheltering a child from realities but treating him like an adult when you tell him his impact on your life. New paradigm. Gives him something to live up to- being treated like an adult may help him act like one. </p>
<p>Wow- did I write a lot. Son just had a four day break from work and came to visit. So much has changed now- independent with a job and car. Used to taking care of household things on his own. Thinking of the differences from college days and now. We gained 10 hours by not doing the round trip twice…</p>
<p>btw- crossposted a bit- took a lot of time to compose this post.</p>
<p>Hunt, don’t be silly, if they had a night job, yes they would be allowed to sleep in. My point was that if they had no work on a tuesday, if they were home they didn’t sleep all morning. They would need to find something productive to do.</p>
<p>Kei-o – I think rather that “regret” maybe I should say I worry about how he will take it. Maybe tough love always involves such feelings. But at the same time you know something has to be done. I worry that he doesn’t have the proper motivation to propel him forward to a successful life. He’s the type of kid that wants all of the pleasure out of life without having to experience any of the pain.</p>
<p>Nice post Wis75.</p>
<p>why do so many want their kids to grow up so fast?..20 hours a week over the summer doesn’t sound that outrageous to me.</p>
<p>I think what Hunt and I are wondering, Seahorsesrock, is what your daughter would do if she found out about a job that doesn’t fit the family “rules” – such as an evening job where she would get home so late that getting up at 8:30 wouldn’t allow her enough sleep, or an internship like my son’s, where the schedule doesn’t conform to your family’s rules for which weeks the student must work.</p>
<p>Some kids would not apply for such a job because they would assume that they would be forbidden to take the job if they got it. </p>
<p>How would your daughters know that you would bend the rules for jobs like these? There seems to be considerable flexibility in your requirements for their summers, but do they know that?</p>
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<p>Yes, but does this time come during the undergraduate years? And if the parents force it to happen during the undergraduate years, does the young person feel “dearly loved” or “kicked out of the house”?</p>
<p>This is making me remember the summer after junior year in college. I worked full time at KMart. Took a class at night at the local cc. Then my BF would pick me up and we’d go out till all hours. I slept in when I could, got up when I had to. 20 year olds can muster a lot of energy if they need to!</p>
<p>As I said those were a framework. Of course if the job required working weekend, nights, etc, sleeping in etc would be what works with the hours they worked. Don’t be so ridiculous. As i stated in two subsequent posts, it was flexible, but the IDEA that they weren’t going to sleep away days and party at night was clear. They are smart girls who understood what we meant, and were able to, unlike some here apparently, to get the gist of what ere expected from them. </p>
<p>I’m not rigid, but you have to start the conversation somewhere and I didn’t take each and every possible scenario into account, didn’t feelmit necessary as my daughters are smart enough to get the point</p>
<p>wis. very nice post.</p>
<p>cbug: If your son is a STEM major he may find an REU for next summer. They are paid. He can ask his school about it.</p>
<p>[US</a> NSF - REU - Search for an REU Site](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/crssprgm/reu/reu_search.cfm]US”>Search for an REU Site | NSF - National Science Foundation)</p>