<p>There are plenty of people in my area and on this website who look down their noses and bash the community colleges (CCs). But CCs are terrific places for some students to mature and develop organizational skills, as well as to gain self-confidence. And they are also great places for high achieving students to recover from first year mistakes, take additional summer courses, or for HS students and homeschoolers to supplement/challenge their HS courses.</p>
<p>“I have found myself saying to many parents when in doubt of your childs readiness, keep them close to home.”</p>
<p>I agree. Going away to college isn’t going to magically cause a disorganized, irresponsible teen to straighten up. Far better to keep them at home and have them prove themselves by commuting to college for a while before going away to college. Another alternative can be having them do a productive gap year in which they have to work full time and pay rent even if they’re living at home. Young people mature a great deal in a year. A post high school gap year living at home, paying rent, and volunteering with Americorps allowed younger S to mature from being a disorganized, lazy student who almost didn’t graduate from high school despite having SATs that were 98-99th percentile to a student who has been on Dean’s List throughout college despite having demanding ECs related to his major, and working 10-14 hours a week.</p>
<p>Ghost - one of the best posts I have read here. Every freshman should read it. </p>
<p>A couple of add-ons: </p>
<p>Study away from the dorm. Treat studying like a job. Go to the empty classroom (my option when in college) or a quiet, non-social part of the library. Plan to stay for a job like period of time - 3-4 hours. Study, get your stuff done, and then go back to the dorm. </p>
<p>Never miss a class. As in never. It is just so vital to understanding the ebb and flow of the curricula. </p>
<p>And develop a skepticism towards drinking and especially drugs. The drag on one’s metabolism can be significant.</p>
<p>I had doubts about Son’s readiness. He limited his search to very small schools within a three hour radius of home. He chose a “colleges that change lives” school with a large emphasis on strong student-faculty relationships. After one semester, it all seems like a big sales job, but time will tell.</p>
<p>“Did any of these kids say to their parents that they werent ready? My d will start college this fall and she tells me daily how much she cant wait to go–is that what your kids thought too?”</p>
<p>Both of my sons said they were eager to go to college, and didn’t want to do a gap year, though I suggested it to both since both were smart guys who underperformed in high school.</p>
<p>Older S got his college apps in because I literally stood over him to make sure that he got them in on time and did the apps for the merit aid he needed to go to his favored colleges. He cheerfully went off to college on full merit aid and cheerfully flunked out. I His best grade during his year there was one D. </p>
<p>I realized later that despite being very smart, he wanted to go to college to leave our town, which he hated, and to have a good time in a city and campus where he could cheer for major sports teams. He had no interest in the academic offerings of college, and he feels his college year was a success because his favorite college team won the national championship!</p>
<p>I learned my lesson, and did not stand over younger S to make sure he got his applications in. He missed all of the deadlines for the colleges that interested him, and two weeks later, he had lined up an Americorps volunteer position – one that literally was created for him. </p>
<p>He always had loved community service, had done it extensively, and the organization that he had volunteered with created a position for him. He told us that he wanted to have his own apartment, so I showed him the classifieds and offered to go with him to look for a place. Once he saw the prices, he decided that it would be far better to accept our offer of living at home and paying rent and gas for the car.</p>
<p>We treated him like an adult during his year with us – no curfew, no waking him up for work, just asked him to let us know if he’d be coming home late. We also told him that since he had almost not graduated, we wouldn’t help pay for college until he’d gone to college on his own dime for a year and had gotten acceptable (i.e. at least a C average) grades. </p>
<p>He applied to colleges, including an expensive LAC that he fell in love with. Due to his Americorps experience and achievements, the college gave him some merit aid and he took out hefty loans that we co-signed for. He’s now a junior, and has been a star student, a leader in ECs, and has also worked every semester except fall of his freshman year. Unlike many college students, he appreciates the EC and educational options because his gap year helped him realize that college is a special time in one’s life when the world literally revolves around you and your interests.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What’s with this American obsession about ‘paying rent’?</p>
<p>I could never, ever, ask any family member for rent, not my second cousin and certainly not my child. It is just freakishly bizarrely weird to most non-Americans.</p>
<p>Wilners, I had a gut feeling my older son shouldn’t head to college right after high school. He had great stats (1450/1600 and a good, but not perfect gpa) and goals that seemed fitting, however no college “called to him” he was kind of all over the place in terms of which colleges to apply to. I always felt he would benefit from a gap year…even took him to a presentation on gap year opportunities. I also always stated that community colleges were worthwhile and told him if he wanted to start in that manner I would have no issue. Lots of peer pressure to pursue 4 year, lots of selective uni’s enticing him, etc. etc. At anyrate, I ignored my gut instincts, and the situation he was in was made worse from his belief that he should show independence and solve it on his own. I have, of course, discussed that while I value his independent streak, it pays to tell people (especially parents) to get assistance when needed…
So, regardless of academic abilities…you know your own children. I truly wish I had somehow followed my gut…and strongly encouraged, perhaps even stated for financial reasons he should do cc first…</p>
<p>S2 has desired to be at his first choice since freshman year and my gut instinct for him has been consistently strong that he will thrive at a 4 year (despite slightly lower SAT, He has a slightly higher GPA…despite being the youngest in his class and being 17 when he will start college, I have fewer fears of him being in a dorm situation than I did for my older who was 18 and 1/2 when he started…)</p>
<p>So, wilners…trust your gut. But, also make a plan for situations that can arise…talk them through what to do when (like the sexiling that one poster has addressed) talk them through what they would do if drugs/alcohol is offered, /loud music etc. interfers with their routines. What their solutions are and who they should/could seek out for help. Tell them if they do get into trouble (academic or other) and find themselves in a discipline hearing that they absolutely need an advocate, and particularly the parent to be involved.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ah, as much as they drive us crazy, you’ve just gotta love sons!</p>
<p>Sorghum, it’s more symbolic than anything. The “kid” on the couch isn’t a kid anymore and if they don’t have a plan, it’s a symbolic act. There’s another thread about this, but the American culture is you raise your child to learn to be independent and self sufficient, part of that is “leaving the nest” and if the bird doesn’t “leave the nest” then the bird needs to help pay for the nest… It’s been that way since my generation. At my college graduation my parents “invited” me to come home for the summer. It was clearly an invitation and it was clearly given in a way that implied that I was welcome to visit for a short while but not to stay indefinitely.</p>
<p>Our oldest son is going off to college in the fall and we are very worried about his academic success. (time management) My question to you all is regarding dorm rooms. He really wants a single (2 rooms with a shared bath). But he wants it for all the wrong reasons - doesn’t want anyone in his space, potential noisy/annoying roommate, etc. The singles are in a building with older kids and kids for whatever reason want to have their own space. WE have zero interest in bowing down to his ‘self centered’ wish. We want him to have a good freshman experience and to learn the lessons of sharing a room, but are now wondering if it would help him stay focused and get more studying done. He is a great kid who will always have a ton of friends no matter where he is in life - so I don’t have any fears about depression.</p>
<p>So from the perspective of parents whose children have had academic concerns, do any of you thing your child would have been better off in a single quieter dorm over a typical freshmen dorm?</p>
<p>"What’s with this American obsession about ‘paying rent’?</p>
<p>I could never, ever, ask any family member for rent, not my second cousin and certainly not my child. It is just freakishly bizarrely weird to most non-Americans."</p>
<p>Actually, there isn’t an American obsession with offspring paying rent. Most of our friends and relatives thought H and I were meanies for making S pay rent.</p>
<p>We had him pay rent because we didn’t want him to think that he could live in a comfortable style on the small living allowance he got from Americorps. We wanted him to understand what finances are necessary for the lifestyle he aspires to. I’ve seen and heard of a lot of parents who don’t have their offspring pay rent, and then the offspring spend all of their income on entertainment, clothes, etc., getting a very distorted idea of what kind of wages are needed to live in the style that makes them comfortable.</p>
<p>As a result, while that S has decided to be a theater major – he chose to concentrate on theater tech, which is where the jobs tend to be, and he has been doing everything he can to ensure that when he graduates, he’ll be employable.</p>
<p>After dropping out of college, older S lived for 2 years with H’s sister who, like you, thought she shouldn’t charge rent to a family member. Up til that point, older S had been one of the most hard working people you’d ever meet when it came to jobs. He had been working jobs since high school (not paying rent, since our rule is that one has to pay rent when one is living at home and not a fulltime student), and had been very responsible and had been doing journalism jobs that usually much older people do.</p>
<p>With SIL, though, he “worked” doing occasional gigs with his punk rock band, work that paid $40 a night for the whole band. He spent the rest of his time partying. He was very comfortable in SIL’s lovely condominium.</p>
<p>It wasn’t until SIL retired and moved away that S realized how he’d be forced to live if he continued his lifestyle. At that point, he and a couple of his band members moved to a new city. S got a fulltime office job, as did one of his band members. The other refused to work, so was kicked out of the apartment. Two years later, S is still working at the same place, has had several promotions despite the bad job market, and he has proudly told me that he is investing his extra money.</p>
<p>SIL has told my H that she realized that while she had thought she was helping S by not charging rent, she was actually enabling him to be a deadbeat.</p>
<p>So… that’s why some American parents charge rent to their offspring who aren’t fulltime students.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If a child was truly saving the money he was earning - for a move cross country, tuition, a car or whatever, I wouldn’t consider charging rent. But if he’s spending 100% of his income on fast food, clothes, video games, etc., it’s sort of an extension of childhood - it would make him grow up a bit to realize that not all money earned is “spending money.”</p>
<p>sorgham, many parents do charge rent, but many will take those monies and save them to assist the young person with having a rental or mortgage deposit.
Charging rent does greatly assist with them learning how to budget, so that when the do go out on their own they are more prepared.
I do though think when a relative is in need that a bit of time without rent is okay. However, my sis-in-law moved back into her mom’s basement 8 years ago (had been overseas, moved back to area…m-in-law thought it would be a “stepping stone”)…never charged rent, and somehow…god knows how…she has yet to save enough to move out on her own (no health issues physical or mental…so only reason is spending willy nilly). She is 40, for what it’s worth…</p>
<p>What I meant by a safety net - is there any appeal or probationary period? I’m guessing not from your posts. It seems so harsh to end it so quickly.
Good luck going forward. I like the idea of some sort of volunteerism. My daughter volunteered as a job coach at Good Will one summer. She worked with mentally challenged adults and it was a real eye opener for her.</p>
<p>My D has to write a paper on a deceased family member. She chose my uncle who passed away at the age of 42. He didn’t “grow up” until he was about 37. Amazingly, he lived rent free with his sister and her family off and on for 8 years! What has been interesting is that in interviewing the family members involved, they have the firm belief that the free loader uncle came to resent them for letting him crash at their house for so long! In his eyes,* they *held back his maturation!</p>
<p>“o from the perspective of parents whose children have had academic concerns, do any of you thing your child would have been better off in a single quieter dorm over a typical freshmen dorm?”</p>
<p>No. Older S was interested in social (sports) aspects of college, not the academic aspects. He would have ended up hanging with the same crowd no matter what dorm he was in. He wasn’t interested in studying.</p>
<p>Younger S ended up living in the freshman party dorm and having a roommate from hell who partied heartily. Younger S was determined to get good grades, so did all of his studying at the library. Through his activities, he also developed strong friendships with other students who were academic achievers, and those were the ones with whom he has roomed since freshman year.</p>
<p>"What’s with this American obsession about ‘paying rent’?</p>
<p>I could never, ever, ask any family member for rent, not my second cousin and certainly not my child. It is just freakishly bizarrely weird to most non-Americans."</p>
<p>Adding that I also saw what happened when my parents didn’t charge my younger brother rent after he went to work immediately after high school. My parents said they weren’t charging him rent because he was “saving to buy a house.”</p>
<p>My brother was actually spending his money on all sorts of ridiculous and unnecessary things including a variety of junker cars. He also was irresponsible about his job, losing it when he didn’t get up to go to work when my mother was out of town and not home to wake him up. When he finally married and moved out at age 35, he and his wife could barely scrape together the security deposit on their apartment.</p>
<p>So, that’s why my sons grew up knowing that our house rule is that offspring who are out of school will pay rent and follow the house rules for adults. Of course, we don’t charge rent to offspring who are working while on summer vacation from school.</p>
<p>kajon,
Though my son’s issue wasn’t an academic issue, I have pondered whether or not a single would have been better for him. I think the issues with dorms aren’t so much having a roomate (if there is a true issue most colleges find solutions…new room etc.) but the dorm life addressed by another poster.<br>
Some student’s with time management get very distracted by all that goes on in dorms (good and bad). Some student’s get caught up in friend’s situations to the detriment of their own academics/well-being.
I learned you can never predict what is going to happen, and at times feel heartbroken over it…though I know in my heart things will work out, and that he is actually on a better path for him at this point.</p>
<p>If you aren’t concerned about depression, and can afford a single, I see no harm in it. I don’t think there is a true benefit from sharing a room, in life. I did learn quite a bit when I shared apartments/townhouses…but we all had our own room. In college sharing a room didn’t really teach me a whole lot about life, since (fortunately) I never had to replicate that… except for marriage:-).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Just wanted to say that a friend of my son’s flunked out freshman year in 07, joined the marines and is now working in a water treatment facility in Okinawa, Japan. It is the best thing that ever happened to him. He was clearly not ready for college, yet he was extremely intelligent - the marines are using his smarts in a great way, and it has changed his life according to his folks. </p>
<p>Good luck to you and all the others whose kids are struggling!</p>
<p>I teach at a community college and I would estimate that about half of my students are “reverse transfers”, meaning they were dismissed from a four-year institution and are with me to rebuild their transcripts. Some students stay with us for years, working part time and enrolling in one or two courses a semester as they mature. Others repeat the same pattern of failure with us. Some have experienced the low pay work world and are ready to achieve. I do feel a year or more of work, service programs or the “safer” military options (if such a thing truly exists in the military) can be a very good way to go for the student who is uncertain about college. My best male students are typically 25-26 years old and have either served in the military or bumped around with travels or low paying jobs for a few years before coming to us. We are fortunate at my CC in that we feed these young men into our local, excellent flagship university (UNC-Chapel Hill) after they complete their general education requirements (with a good GPA). Once at UNC, they do quite well. </p>
<p>Young people mature at different rates and there is little colleges can do to push that along. My son is applying to colleges and we are considering a gap year of service while deferring admission for a year. He is young and simply not ready to discipline himself in the way he needs to in order to be a success in college.</p>
<p>I would not look for another four year school for your son to attend. He seems to need more time to mature and, with his intellect, will do beautifully once he is ready.</p>