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Minnie, can you help us out? What are your “simple rules”? How do you respond to the “rule-breaking”?</p>
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<p>I think your course of action might depend on what you call your “simple rules”.</p>
<p>If your rules are what most college students and their parents would consider reasonable (must let us know where you are going, must have a job or other worthwhlie activity, must help with chores around the house), then it would make sense to put your foot down about D’s behavior.</p>
<p>However, if your simple rules are unreasonable, then punishing your daughter and demanding respect is unlikely to be productive. Unreasonable rules would be things like: you are not allowed to go out with your friends, you must be home by 8:00 each night, we have to know where you are and who you a with at all times. </p>
<p>If your home life is very regimented and restrictive compared to D’s college life, it seems logical that your D is bristling on her return home.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if your “simple rules” are reasonable, she’s just being a brat!</p>
<p>I completely agree with Marian’s points in #20.</p>
<p>We’ve been in a situation different from that of many parents on CC, who hold considerable financial sway over their college students. Our S was receiving a virtual full ride from his school (Except for money we had put away for him earlier.) We couldn’t give him spending money. We do pay for his cell phone on the family plan, but that is just about it. He doesn’t have a car. We had nothing to threaten him with, nothing to take away. We could not <em>compel</em> him to do anything. He told us his GPA only if he wanted to. He came home only if he wanted to. He confided in us only if he wanted to. He was civil only if he wanted to be. If he didn’t do any of these things, what were we going to threaten to withhold? Our affection? Anything he gave us was freely given.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian. I am 22 and living at home while I look for a job and until I can make enough money to support myself, I just graduated in April and I have student loans and disabilities to contend with, my complete independence is going to take a little while. My parents play the money card before anything else, and let me tell you-- I behave respectfully because I have no choice, not because I actually respect them. Why would I respect someone that takes advantage of my dependence to treat me like an invalid when all it would take is to talk to me like an adult and work out some sort of compromise? When all else fails that is better than nothing and if you’re the bank you have the right to do that, but why would you WANT to do that? There are much more productive ways to handle this issue that dont destroy the relationship with the adult child. Unless nothing else works I don’t know why you’d go there. When you are looking at a strictly parent-child relationship, use of complete force and control when needed is typical, but I just don’t think that’s at all productive when you are looking at a parent-adult child relationship. That is a different dynamic and needs to be treated like one if you don’t want to make it worse. Again, unless all else fails. You need control over your own house, I just think taking shots at her financial dependence is going for the throat and not called for except as a last resort. Just because you /can/ do something doesn’t mean it is practical or productive.</p>
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<p>A spoiled college student is not the same class of people as homemakers, retired people, etc. and as a former homemaker I find your “logic” here truly insulting.</p>
<p>Everyone has a role to play in the household, no matter how small, and it depends entirely on their abilities. A full capable adult who disrespects the household and the people in it should not expect to share in the benefits of the household. It’s very simple.</p>
<p>The very idea that a person who is being toxic to the household should continue to be financially rewarded is absurd. To do it in the name of protecting the disabled is doubly so.</p>
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<p>I am sorry to have offended you. That was not my intent.</p>
<p>I am familiar with a situation in which an employed spouse treated a homemaker spouse as inferior because the homemaker was not earning money. The employed person’s attitude was “I’m the one with the paycheck, so I can do anything I want. Your views (or privacy or needs or preferences) don’t count.” I have also seen the same individual act in the same way toward an adult child who was attending college.</p>
<p>I’m picking up the view here that the situation I’m familiar with is atypical, so I think it’s best that I stop participating in this discussion.</p>
<p>I think the OP should have two objectives: (1) bringing the disrespectful behavior to a halt, and (2) establishing a healthy adult-to-adult relationship with the daughter. “Playing the money card” might (or might not) accomplish 1, but it would, if anything, damage 2, perhaps irreparably.</p>
<p><sigh></sigh></p>
<p>…this sounds like a post from someone who’s never been in the situation of having a college kid return home at holidays or summer who is very rude but expects parents to hand out money for movies, gas, whatever.</p>
<p>Sorry…but to hand over money in those cases is to be a doormat.</p>
<p>She probably shuts you out, but she’ll read her text messages. Choose to respond with a specific example and write it in a text. This (hopefully) starts a conversation, albeit via texting, that can allow her to understand what she’s saying and how hurtful it is.</p>
<p>And while I know it hurts even more b/c you ‘pay for everything’, that’s not the issue, so keep it out of the discussion.</p>
<p>ETA: I see she’s a rising junior. This summer is actually a very important time for her, if she follows what most kids following their junior year and get internships. Hopefully she has gotten a job, but since she doesn’t ‘need’ the money, she may not. If she has too much time on her hands and not able to find a job, at least she can look for a volunteer someplace.</p>
<p>Several questions to OP:</p>
<p>Was D always rude, angry, and demanding, or just now? If D has a history of bad behavior, consider whether there are mental health issues - bipolar disorder, which suggests a therapist’s evaluation is needed. If this is “new” behavior:</p>
<p>Consider literally writing-up a set of “rules of household”, including her chores, her responsibilities, etc. Free room and board for a 20-year-old should require certain minimum standards of decorum.</p>
<p>If issues revolve around curfew and calling in regarding missed meals and her plans, then allow some new freedoms. Maybe a 1 am curfew, maybe “no dinner at home” unless she specifically requests to be included, etc.</p>
<p>If there’s no summer job, then insist nonetheless that she volunteer (or find a job) within your community. Library book-stacking, park camp counselor, food pantry, etc. Get her out of house aside from shopping and partying. Cut off the spending money first, then the cell phone and keys to car, if she fails to respond. Volunteer spots can be found within an afternoon, if pursued. There’s no such thing as “no jobs”, and there’s always babysitting. Pride shouldn’t get in her way.</p>
<p>Don’t lose your temper, and don’t engage in her arguments with you - walk away, but take away those items that you as parents control. People, including our children, treat us the way we allow them to do so - it’s a hard lesson. Present a unified front with your husband, and specifically ask him for his support.</p>
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<p>Actually, I’ve been there, done that - to be more accurate, l am in the process of being there, doing that. We sat down and had a long family conversation, communicating expectations and negotiating reasonable limits. The situation has improved significantly, though there are still occasional blowups. </p>
<p>Could we have cut off the money spigot? Sure, we could have taken the easy way out. But it would have meant a resentful daughter and a lousy summer for all of us. Instead, it has been a learning and growing experience for all three of us.</p>
<p>And I’m sorry, but I’ve seen close-up a family situation where irreparable harm has been done to relationships through exercise of power plays. I’m willing to let an occasional rude remark roll off my back for the sake of keeping the peace.</p>
<p>The OP describes their daughter treating them like “dogs” and that the disrespect has become unbearable.</p>
<p>It appears this kid has been running her mouth and controlling the family with her “strong willed” personality for some time. The parents need to learn how to set limits and not allow her to control the household any more. This will take some professional counseling. It will be worth it because this kid needs to become a member of this family, this “team.”
It might be too late but the parents need some skills that they do not have at this time.</p>
<p>This kid needs to stop being the center of attention and her parents have the power but not the ability to make it happen. </p>
<p>She needs a wake up call.</p>
<p>The OP describes their daughter treating them like “dogs” and that the disrespect has become unbearable.</p>
<p>Right.</p>
<p>And people comparing the situation to situations of tyrannical spouses or parents are just going over the top. These parents aren’t saying that they are going to choose their D’s major or make various decisions for her because they are supporting her financially. They also aren’t threatening to kick her out or similar. They just want CIVIL behavior in their home.</p>
<p>NO parent…even the parent of a minor…is obligated to provide pocket money or gas money. And when such a child is over 18, any of these things are purely a gift. </p>
<p>When someone treats you like a dog and you continue to behave like a money-machine, that borders on masochistic behavior. Yell at me and I’ll give you ten…Kick me and I’ll give you twenty.</p>
<p>Any adult child who has the money-machine stopped until they can behave CIVILLY (we’re not asking for Stepford kids), is a person who either will get the message…or is so damaged that serious professional help is needed…and to continue handing out money will just enable the situation.</p>
<p>Would need to know many more details to give specific advice or agree with some given. So much is subjective. We don’t have a clue about parental expectations, past behavior, etc. </p>
<p>It is hard for strong willed parents who raise children like them. There is probably a power struggle going on- I get praise from others for my well behaved now 21 year old but know he’s different at home. Parent/child conflicts. The returning student has been on their own and expects to be treated like the adult they behave as at school- but they revert to childish behaviors at home. Resentments for past treatment also surface. You never deserve respect- you have to earn it. Being a parent does not entitle you to respect.</p>
<p>Your D probably feels trapped back in her childhood by your expectations, reasonable or not on your or her part. You need to face her with an adult to adult conversation, if you can. She likely had no options other than living at home this summer. It is hard to want independence but be trapped by finances.</p>
<p>Give her your options. You will give her a place to stay and food et al- the basics- as you see fit to provide. Any other priveleges need to be earned- use of car, phone, tv… Let her know neither of you is happy with the situation but that you need to make the best of it. Ignore her as much as you can. Only cook meals when you want them and what you wish to eat. Do not stock the refrigerator with her requests. Let her know that you dislike how she is treating you and that you will only provide the minimum required unless she treats you better. Define “better” (and this does not include respect). Tell her you expect the same treatment she would give a stranger.</p>
<p>You can mention that it is polite to let people you live with know when to expect you- the same courtesies you and your H give each other.</p>
<p>Here’s the ultimatum. Tell her that you and she need to get along better or she can’t spend the next summer with you. She will have plenty of time to make plans for next summer. We find it so much easier to have son visit us in the summer instead of live with us- he spent one summer away and then got an apartment after that so he had a place to be. It has become much easier for son to be more pleasant, clean up after himself and all sorts of things when he knows he is not trappped with us. I hear by age 25 they are better- and I can see progress.</p>
<p>It may be that a talk/conversation/shouting… session may shock her into the reality that certain behaviors are required, or both of you may clear the air and be able to work things out. Say what you mean and follow up on what you say. Allow her to save face by being willing to “start over” without needing an apology. Diffuse the power struggle by not needing anything from her. You had a home life without her this past school year, do as you did without her there.</p>
<p>I didn’t read through every post on the thread, mostly because I want to respond to the OP without any one else’s opinion filtering in.</p>
<p>As a twenty year old, I have one parent who would read that post and say without hesitation that he has a kid exactly like that. My mother would tell him he was insane.
Yes, there is a difference between the way I communicate with my parents. My father until recently was the sole breadwinner for my family. He never wastes an opportunity to play the money card. When I call him, or more often when he calls me, it usually takes thirty seconds before he’s asking me what my problem is and why I won’t talk to him. When he has something, it is his, and the fact that he even thinks about letting me use his money for food is supposed to make me worship the ground he walks on. (I am on a full scholarship which also covers books, but the upperclassmen apartments are a little more expensive and I need a little extra while I wait for the delayed payroll at my job) They pay my insurance and phone bill. (The phone line on it’s own is maybe 9.99 a mont as part of my family’s plan).
During my teenage years especially, my father was not around very much for reasons I understand. But ever since things got better he acts like every problem in our relationship is my fault. He expects me to reach out to him. He expects me to be the more mature person in our relationship. But at the same time when he speaks to me, he treats me with less respect than my eleven year old brother. Because of this and the fact that he believes he can do no wrong, I will admit I am disrespectful of him.
My mother on the other hand treats me like an adult. Not a full adult, but one who is mostly capable while still needing some financial help. (Basically the opposite of my father.) She apologizes when she does something wrong. But at the same time she doesn’t hesitate to call me out on anything she thinks I’m doing wrong. We do occasionally scream at each other, but when the screaming’s done, we’ve usually accomplished something. She has nothing but my respect. I do what she asks (within reason). I tell her what’s going on in my life.
The main differences: My mother acknowledges that a relationship depends on both people, and she treats me like an adult (but not necessarily an equal).</p>
<p>I guess I should have prefaced my advice with “do this after normal measures have been taken.” And by normal, I mean, have the conversation, try to understand everyone feelings, etc. Well let me tell you…it does not always work. I could have falsely assumed the OP has been there done all of that or she would not have been here looking for answers. Typically posts like this are an “end of my rope” kind of things.</p>
<p>And having conversations at a neutral location is a great idea, but I would not choice a public neutral place (think more like church meeting room, maybe a bench at a closed for the day school…etc) If you don’t think loud mouthed, disrespectful kids can throw a fit in public then let me introduce you to my son…lol.</p>
<p>No matter what stage of this battle OP is fighting, my heart goes out to her. These situations are never easy and the rips in the heart, frankly, never heal.</p>
<p>Hugs to you.
Be a role model for respect! Always speak respectfully to everyone, including members of the family. If you slip and say something disrespectful, apologize.
Try some therapeutic communication. If she yells, say something like, “You sound pretty frustrated.” Then, later, use an “I statement” such as “I felt hurt when I heard your tone of voice earlier. Can we talk about it?”
Say, “You don’t agree with me. Can we talk about this reasonably and come to an agreement?”
Say, “We’re both after the same goals. We both want to have a good relationship and successful lives. How can we best accomplish that?”
If after all of this, the behavior is continuing, ask yourself:
Is this new?
Is she getting enough sleep? Is she eating normally?
Is there something else going on?
Does she have friends?
Is she getting her period? Is she on hormonal therapy such as birth control? Which kind? (Is she on a progesterone-only method, affecting mood, or is she on a method with fluctuating levels of hormones?)
Is she getting exercise?
Sleep difficulties, eating difficulties, lack of friends, a halt to normal activities, very wide mood swings, are RED FLAGS.</p>
<p>The op SAYS THIS-
"P. S. We pay everything for her…car, insurance, tuition, etc., and yet she is very rude to us!! "<br>
Yet claims this is an adult? Paying everything for her is how you treated her when she was 10. No it isn’t adult by any definition of mine. 20 is a stage in between childhood and adulthood for most. This child needs to be told she can come and go as she pleases, she can cook as she pleases, she can do laundry as she pleases, and she can make or break any rules that strike her fancy, in her own place.
She is a guest in your home and should act like it. Make it clear that is your first choice. But if she wishes to make an adult choice not to behave civilly then she can behave as she wants elsewhere.</p>
<p>Another perspective- suppose a friend of the family at age 25 wanted to live in your home, free, for 3 or 4 yrs. Plus, if you said yes, they would not only be freeloaders but would also be constantly be rude to you. Is that ok? Being an adult mean cetrtain obligations and responsibilities come along with the benefits. Choices we make affect how others may choose to act around us. </p>
<p>freedom at 18? All the freedom belongs to the parents! No longer does a parent have to feed, clothe, house, cook, spend money or time after that kid turns 18. Beyond 18, any of those are a gift that most parents want to give. But gifts that are unappreciated soon come to an end.</p>
<p>Without more background from the OP, it is impossible to really know what is going on here and most of this advice is wild speculation. It seems odd to me that this girl is suddenly treating her parents “like dogs” and what was before strong willed, is now insulting. As other posters have said, without knowing parental expectations, we cannot give advice. That said, Ginab has several excellent points from the other side of the coin. Adult children should expect the respect of their parents, and she’s right to say that many parents expect their children to cowtow to them, especially when they are holding the pursestrings. Hard to say if that is what is going on here.</p>
<p>Younghoss–It fascinates me that you don’t think an eighteen year old doesn’t deserve the freedom to do what she wants in her parent’s home (which according to you is no longer their own because of their 18th birthday), but at the same time all responsibility of the parents vanishes. You said right in your post that a 20 year old should be told they can cook whenever they please in their own place only, but the parents don’t have to feed them? What sort of logic is that? Your plan has a parent treating a college age person like a child and if they’re not okay with it throwing the child into the world when you have never given them any chance to become an adult or know how to take care of themselves. How can someone learn what is a good time to come home if their parents enforce a curfew until the day they throw them out of their house for objecting to it? How can someone learn how to feed themselves if according to you they can’t cook as they please in their parent’s house? This is setting someone up for failure.</p>
<p>She might hear/understand the message better if you use the word “rude” instead of “disrespectful.” It’s wrong to be rude to anyone, regardless of who is older or younger.</p>
<p>ginab, there has to be a happy medium. There needs to be a gradual lessening of rules, but allowing an older teen to do whatever they want, whenever they want, without suffering the natural consequences isn’t the answer. If she wants to cook, she needs to clean up her own mess. She shouldn’t be staying out until all hours because it’s rude to the rest of the family, who needs to get up in the morning to go to work and school.</p>
<p>It’s common courtesy, like you would show to a stranger or a friend, and it should also be extended to the people in your house.</p>
<p>I highly doubt this behavior developed over night, and I agree that some therapy might help the parents learn to deal more effectively with a kid who desperately needs to learn that if she treats people like dirt for the rest of her life, she’ll end up alone and lonely.</p>