Disrespectful 20 year old

Parents Forum
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<p>I highly doubt this behavior developed over night,</p>

<p>I don’t know if it did or didn’t…but I’ve talked to enough parents whose kids went away to school…had tons of freedom…no accountability…spending nights with SO’s…doing minimal to no chores…and then when the kids come home for the summer, the kids don’t adjust well and get rude and testy.</p>

<p>One mom recently told me that they’ve always been a 2 car family… because D could walk to K-12…and parents each needed their cars during the day. Now the college D is home for the summer and is outraged that she can’t have one of the cars to come and go as she pleases (at her college, she had public transportation to come and go). Although she’s not being rude like the OP’s D, it is causing stress in the home. </p>

<p>I’m glad that both my kids are away doing internships this summer, because it can be very hard to have them home at this age…they’re often messy, they use the kitchen all hours of the night, they stay up late, sleep in til noon or later, etc. Ugh!</p>

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<p>I definitely agree that there has to be some compromise, but my objection was to the suggestion that she be allowed no say in her own life until she’s on her own.</p>

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<p>I remember the first summer D1 was home, H told her that it wasn’t a bed and breakfast, she had to pitch in(with chores) if she wanted to live in the house.</p>

<p>OP and her kid didn’t get to this point over night. A kid doesn’t become disrespectful or rude because he/she went away to college for one year. This type of relationship often takes 2, the parents must have given their kid permission to behave in such way growing up. At age 19 or 20, it is hard to change someone’s behavior. That being said, I would set a boundary with the kid (what he can or cannot do in the house), hopefully at some point the kid would grow up.</p>

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<p>I’ve had similar “respect” issues with my D of the same age. Not to the point of “treating us like dogs,” or CONSTANT rude behavior. But some hurtful disrespect, harsh words. Lack of appreciation/consideration and meanness (hormones? boyfriend/social/academic issues?) Suggest that she find a summer job away next summer. That’s what our D is doing, and I’m glad for all of us. I disagree that a kid grows up like this and is always like this. D grew up as a very kind, helpful, mature, responsible oldest sister of a big family. Never had the slightest conflict with her until she was almost 18. . .Things changed once she went to college. I think some of this, (besides the hormones-- hers and mine) to a certain degree, is a phase, part of “breaking away.” Feeling “independent,” yet needing to be reminded that she is NOT–and that WE are paying for that feeling! It is hard to know if the OP is just angry at the moment–because I could post the same thing about my D when I’m really fed up with her attitude. Or this is a constant, horrible situation? With my D, I think it is at the level of something that a lot of parents/kids go through. A transition. Unpleasant at times. But not constant or pathological. </p>

<p>S went through something like this a few years ago, too. Sort of passive aggressive and bickering at home. Did not like him around. He also spent a summer working away.
He is almost 23 and has been out of college for a year/working. He is spending 2 months with us this summer and has matured quite a bit the last 2-3 years. I wasn’t looking forward to him being here, but I am pleasantly surprised how much he has grown up and how much more helpful and reasonable he is now.</p>

<p>I’m hoping it will be the same with D. I recall going through this phase–not liking my parents-- around 18-21 and I always worked away from home. I appreciated and accepted my parents more as I moved toward my mid-twenties. I must say that I think it is much more difficult for me as a mother to deal with my daughter in this phase than with my son. It seems no one can hurt a mother or bring her to tears with unkindness or harsh words like her own daughter can. Also, S was more frugal, hardworking than D. D has a sense of entitlement and lack of appreciation that S didn’t have.</p>

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<p>What happened to the OP?</p>

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<p>Similar experience with S1. I have come to realize our relationship is a work in progress and many years will pass before things will improve. This thread is a confirmation. Best of luck to you and your family.</p>

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<p>About the word disrespectful, it was suggested that using the word will make things worse. Just use the word DIS. Your 20 yo knows exactly what the word DIS means. Tell her she is DISing you and your are terribly hurt by it. DIS means to disrespect, to be disrespectful, to insult, to criticize. . At least to a 20 yo. She will totally get the word DIS, and when you use it, a light may turn on. When your 20, it can be all about the words. And if you talk in ways she understands, you will gain some respect. Really. </p>

<p>I agree with the other posters about taking away the financial cushion. She will also get that. And counseling. You go, even if she does not.</p>

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<p>I would suggest never engaging with her when she is rude or hostile. Simply saying “I won’t talk to you until you can be polite”, don’t get drawn into an argument just walk way. </p>

<p>I would then find some other time to talk calmly to her. At first I’d give her an opportunity to talk about anything that’s bothering her about being at home or her relationship with you. Then I think you should lay out what you expect of her, but without being overly negative. e.g. I expect you to be polite and do XYZ around the house rather than making accusations about her past behaviour. </p>

<p>It could be that she’s just kicking back at the relative lack of freedom she has at home compared to college so I would perhaps find some way of treating her more like an adult or giving her more responsibility. For example you mention you pay for her car, insurance, cell phone etc perhaps rather than doing this you could give her a budget which she could manage herself. Perhaps when she has to manage a budget she’ll also begin to appreciate more all of the help you’re giving her.</p>

<p>Obviously I think you would also need to make clear that if she doesn’t live up to your expectations there will be consequences, probably less money, but I would give her an opportunity to improve her attitude before concentrating too much on this.</p>

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<p>Of course they are not the same, and Marian did not say so. What she said is that SOME PEOPLE are inclined to treat the household members who make less money or no money at all–which is NOT the same thing as not contributing to the household–with a marked lack of respect, to place them and their desires/needs/concerns/opinions lower than that of the person with the money. She didn’t say that this was justified, or correct.</p>

<p>IMHO, to deny that this phenomenon exists is to stick one’s head in the sand. It not only exists, it is common.</p>

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<p>One person said that she was “insulted.” A number of us strongly supported your views. I see no reason to depart the discussion. I think your contribution is valuable.</p>

<p>Regarding the OP’s dilemma, I don’t think valuable advice can be given without more details, as several people have pointed out.</p>

<p>In the meantime, the discussion may be of value to others who struggle with similar situations.</p>

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<p>Originally Posted by Marian
I’m picking up the view here that the situation I’m familiar with is atypical, so I think it’s best that I stop participating in this discussion.</p>

<p>The problem is that the scenario didn’t apply to the OP’s situation. Yes, we all know that there are cruel tyrants out there who only measure others’ worth by a bottom-line number.</p>

<p>That is not the case with the OP. She and her H adore their D and are spending large sums of money on her so that she will have a successful future. And…how is all that sharing of their largess treated? Well, they are treated like dogs.</p>

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<p>^^mom2, that isn’t the point. The point is that if you react to poor behavior like this simply by cutting off funding, you are giving the message that it is money that is important and that the way to control people is to use money as a weapon. The behavior–which I agree is unacceptable–needs to be addressed separately from money. (I don’t think that it is a good idea to shower kids with largesse and if I were the OP I’d be expecting the kid to pay more of their own expenses, especially car-related ones, just on general principal, but that’s another matter.)</p>

<p>The power equation between a person who has a paycheck and a person who doesn’t need not be a “cruel tyrant” situation to nevertheless be unequal and damaging. Often it is quite subtle.</p>

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<p>When I was 16, I turned into a brat. Prior to this, I was a sweet, respectful daughter, but this bratty phase lasted about a year. I wasn’t as bad as you describe, but enough to cause my parents to worry. </p>

<p>I clearly remembering my father “playing the money card” and it made a difference to me. I altered my behavior, and matured a bit, too. We ultimately went on to have a great relationship.</p>

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<p>I agree completely. The overwhelming cries of “you should do whatever we say because we have the money” are one of the worst things. I’m sure most parents would not say that money is the most important thing, whether in the their relationship with their child or otherwise, but using it as the reason your child is not equal to you is showing them exactly that. By saying you can’t treat me like this because I have the money, or taking away the money for certain behavior, you’re using money as the only separator between someone who is an adult and deserves respect.
Instead you end up with someone who cannot judge the amount of respect a person deserves outside of the amount of money they make or give them.
It also gives this idea that the reason their parents are hostile towards them is that they need to pay for things. For some it even gives a subconscious feel of “You’re not good enough. If you were we wouldn’t need to give you any money.” It doesn’t matter that a college student cannot reasonably be expected to pay for all their bills, especially in this economy, you should find away around that, and since you can’t, we get to do whatever we want to you.</p>

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<p>I will try to explain my meaning better, ginab. If an adult friend of mine was staying in my house for free for a couple years, there are things I feel I’d have a right to expect. For example, don’t leave the house a mess, don’t run around naked, don’t smoke inside, be nice if I have guests, and let his behavior be mindful of my lifestyle, and my work schedule. My adult guest cannot behave here any way he wants, any time he wants merely because he is an adult. If he were my son at 5, 10, or 15, legally I’d have no choice but to accept him and deal with it. Since the friend is an adult, I have other choices. I expect to be treated nicely by someone who lives here. It that unreasonable? Not to say those examples are the exact complaints of the Op, but to show that my friend has limits in my home despite being an adult. His adulthood doesn’t give him the right to behave any way he wants, to the point of overruling what I want. I am not bound by any law to provide for him. Similarly for an offspring 18 or more. !Yes, I want to do more, yes, I will choose to do more, but I don’t have to!. The new 18 yr old has gained the legal right to come and go as he pleases, but the adults have gained the right that they no longer have to provide housing. Same law. No longer a legal obligation, it’s now a gift based on family beliefs.
For a person of 18 or 19 or 20 to say -“Now I’m over 18, I can do anything I want” is common(I did it), but it is a childs’ perspective. That limited perspective is essentially saying “I now have the right to do as I please and others must deal with it”. But no, that isn’t true. The rights to choose behavior as a newly turned 18 yr old do not supercede the rights of the parents to choose their own behavior. That is the angle some young people don’t see. So yes, the 18 yr old has all the rights to choose things for himself, but the parents don’t lose their rights to choose for themselves.</p>

<p>Ginab, you have it backwards than how I think. To think a parent and homeowner is obligated to tolerate any kind of behavior in one’s home is treating a person like a child. To expect certain behaviors or face real consequences is treating a person like an adult. At 10, a child cannot be asked to live elsewhere. At just over 50 I am surely an adult. Legally, I have the right to come and go as I please, dally with booze and strippers, do as much or as little housework as I please, be as nice or as argumentative as I please in my home. But as an adult I realize I do have very practical limits and responsibilities. I owe my wife courtesy and respect. Staying out too late could jeopardize my job or my marriage, same with being a boozer, and other bad behaviors. I cannot choose all those bad behaviors and also choose that all others must permit it- without consequence. So I have legal rights/legal choices that I can not utilize because I have other family obligations that limit me. And that’s ok to me. The happy homelife I have is worth more to me than living in an apartment, single, doing all those other things. I enjoyed them when I was 21 and single in my own place but now I have family to answer to.</p>

<pre><code>It works both ways. I do not believe I could visit my adult son in his apartment with his wife, and then run around in just my socks and a smile(as an example) or do any behavior I wanted regardless of their feelings- and then claim I can do it-despite their wishes- because I am over 18. Their place, their rules, that seems reasonable to me. If I think their house rules unreasonable, then we meet somewhere else.
</code></pre>

<p>I see it this way(using a metaphor), I can choose to give a gift to my adult son, and I can expect a “thank you” in return. If I do not get that thank you, then since I am not obligated to give gifts, I could choose to stop. Son would have 3 choices. Say or not say thanks, or refuse the gift. As an adult, my son can weigh his cost of having to say thanks. If he thinks it is reasonable to do that, he’ll say thanks. If he thinks the cost is too high, then he can choose not to. I cannot force his response, and son does not have the right to force me to continue giving gifts. In this metaphor, I would want to give gifts and hope the adult son feels a thank you is an appropriate action. As an adult he can choose his behavior, but he cannot choose mine; I’m an adult too.</p>

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<p>Well, since somebody invited me back…</p>

<p>I think several people on this thread have shared a very good idea – that the OP’s daughter and others with similar difficulties may be better off spending most of their time during the long college breaks (summer and possibly also the month-long winter break) somewhere other than their parents’ home.</p>

<p>For some college students, the restrictions involved in staying at their parents’ house become hard to endure after a week or so. In some instances, this unhappiness may manifest itself as rudeness or irritability, which can decrease the quality of life for everyone in the household. </p>

<p>Of course, in situations like this, an effort should be made to do something about the unpleasant behavior (although I still think that financial threats are not the optimal approach). People living in the same house and not getting along well for three months is a wretched experience. But the behavior modification does not solve the underlying problem.</p>

<p>A better solution, over the longer term, may be for the student (perhaps with help from the parents) to work toward figuring out ways to minimize long spells of time at home in the future. Summer jobs or internships away from home may be a good idea. Off-campus living can also help because the student is not forced to spend entire breaks at the parents’ home; going back to the college community is always a possibility. </p>

<p>During the first two years of college, my son was clearly unhappy (though not obnoxious) during the long college breaks (winter and summer) at home. I asked him about it, and he said that he found the restrictions of life at our house to be very unpleasant compared to the freedom of college. He came home in the summers because he had found an internship in our home community that was too good to pass up, and he came home for winter breaks because he had no alternative (he lived in a dorm that closed for breaks). And he coped primarily by spending as much of his free time as possible playing online games as an “escape” from an unhappy situation. </p>

<p>Then he moved off-campus, and that changed everything. He was able to spend portions of his breaks in his college community and come home only for shorter periods. He found things to do on campus during portions of his last two winter breaks and came home only for two weeks rather than five each time. And in his last college summer, he found a research opportunity on campus and came home only for a brief visit. Everyone was happier. </p>

<p>I think it’s important to point out that what I’m describing did not involve “kicking him out of the house.” My son would have been welcome to come home for all of the breaks, if he had wanted to. It was his own decision to spend much of his time elsewhere, but I think it was a good one.</p>

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<p>*When I was 16, I turned into a brat. Prior to this, I was a sweet, respectful daughter, but this bratty phase lasted about a year. I wasn’t as bad as you describe, but enough to cause my parents to worry.</p>

<p>I clearly remembering my father “playing the money card” and it made a difference to me. I altered my behavior, and matured a bit, too. We ultimately went on to have a great relationship. *</p>

<p>game, set, match. </p>

<p>The point is that when parents have probably been toooo generous, they need to say to their child, We have gone too far, we’ve been too generous, and it has resulted in bratty, entitled behavior from you. We are going to engage in some self-correction that should have occurred awhile ago. These are the things that we will still pay for (these still are a gift), but you will have to pay for x, y, z. Of course, if we see that you’re really trying (really trying) and you come up short, we’ll help you out when we can.</p>

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<p>Not game, set, match, in my opinion.</p>

<p>The person who was helped by the father “playing the money card” was 16 and therefore her parents could not legally refuse to meet her basic needs or deprive her of the opportunity to continue her education.</p>

<p>A 20-year-old is in a very different situation. The parents have the legal right to completely cut her off financially. And that changes the “money card” weapon from a water pistol to a bazooka. The entire feeling of the interaction is different.</p>

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<p>Nor in mine. One anecdote does not a principle make.</p>

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<p>just a quick note that I do not advocate “kicking young adult out” or stopping all funding as a first response. My opinions expressed only that those consequences can exist.</p>

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<p>Marian…I don’t think many (or any) were suggesting cutting her off at the knees (no bazookas in the room). Pretty much everyone one was in agreement that tuition, food, etc should still be provided.</p>

<p>People have been suggesting that the LUXURIES be stopped…cell phone, car, nicer clothing purchases, pocket money, etc. Otherwise the parents are just doormats.</p>

<p>*The overwhelming cries of “you should do whatever we say because we have the money” are one of the worst things. *</p>

<p>??? huh???</p>

<p>What “overwhelming cries”??? That’s a straw man argument…it doesn’t exist here.</p>