Have her write a budget of what she expects you to pay for, and then you edit it and return it. If she can’t live within that budget, she can move home. You have to be strong enough to enforce it too.
She should see that her phone is $25/mo and her car insurance $90 (and only because I assume you have a family policy and she gets the discount). Her tuition and fees should be easy to figure out, and her rent.
I still remember the shock, SHOCK, on my daughter’s face when we went on a trip to Disney and I had filled up the car with gas and then had to fill it again! In the same day. She couldn’t believe that the car could actually use that much gas (I usually filled up on my way to work so the kids didn’t see the tick tick tick of the gas prices). At the grocery store they rarely saw me buy the basics during the week but only the extras for a party or weekend meal. Really Mom, you have to buy salt and TP and carrots? Yes, yes I do.
Write it all out and live by it. You can give her gifts or treat her to a concert or meal, but she can’t ask for more than is on the budget.
One of my kids was treating me poorly and wanted me off her bank accounts and out of her “business.” She got what she wanted and I took myself off her accounts, but also took her off mine. Her sister is sole beneficiary now of my 401k, my bank accounts, and anything else. I doubt there will be a big payout at my death, but this kids got what she wanted and is taking the risk that her sister gets everything. She does treat me better now. Not perfect, but better.
I would ask yourself two questions: How did we get to this point?
What is the end goal?
I’m sorry you are feeling disrespected. Good relationships take a lot of work. They can be messy and problems usually are exacerbated by both parties. I think because it’s your kid, you would probably hope for a great, loving and healthy relationship in the long run. So then how do you get there from here? Seek counseling. Your relationship with your daughter is worth it.
What stands out to me is that you claim that she “refused to tell you that she owed tuition”. That really does not fit with the claim that she calls you when she needs money, because it seems that when she really needed money, she put off calling you until it was almost too late.
So, taking you at your word regarding your interactions, I would tend to suspect that more is going on there.
Are you sure that it is not anxiety and/or depression? If these behaviors are new, that should be a red flag - sudden changes in behavior and personality are often indications of mental health issues. Has her school work also changed?
Moreover, we are in the middle of a pandemic, and visiting home may involve a lot more than simply jumping into her car and driving home for an evening. She may not be permitted to do so and still return to her classes.
Is she renting or living in dorms? What are the COVID 19 restrictions on students in her college?
@TomSrOfBoston I think you may have misunderstood. I think that allowing kids space, including fewer contacts, can actually enhance self-sufficiency. I didn’t mention money in my post at all, only preserving relationships, by which I meant not insisting on phone or visits on the parents’ schedule.
However, info posted by the OP later on the thread clarifies things a lot more than the original post.
So to get back to that, is is possible, as others have implied, that there is an undiagnosed issue here? One of mine left school, works, and takes two classes at a time in a degree completion program, and receives coaching for her ADHD. Not saying that is the issue here, but there is clearly some obstacle to your daughter doing her work.
I think at this point most everyone will suggest family therapy or therapy for her or for you. That is also what I meant by focusing on relationship: rather than letting it all go down a black hole over time.
I will say this: what you tolerate will continue. She is allowed to behave this way, so there is no motivation or driving force for her to change. She is getting everything she wants at your expense and you’re permitting her to talk to you disrespectfully.
If you choose to instill consequences for her behavior AND stick to those consequences where she has to go without something or deal with something she doesn’t like…only then will things change.
You are the parent. You are setting the stage for how she treats others in life. Do better for her so she can be a better citizen and do for herself. Stop enabling poor character.
IF she has mental or emotional adjustment issues and refuses medical attention. YOU need to go for counseling, to guide you.
There is no one simple answer here. She may not be fully in control of her decisions. But you can explore your options with a pro. Imo, not family counseling, at this point. Focus first on your relationship with her, as the parent. Or you and the parent partner. Because you’re the adults, with the parent perspective. Later, the siblings can join in.
I’m confused. Who is paying her college costs? The tuition, fees, room and board part? If it’s you parents, then you need to insist that she allow you access to her bursars account so you can get the bills, or at least check the balances. Every college allows that. You can put it in the house of “it would be easier for all of us if we got these college bills directly”. If she says no…then be polite and say “without this privacy release, we can’t and won’t pay your college bills”.
When our kids were college students, we agreed to pay the full costs for their college bills because we wanted to and could. They were responsible for any discretionary spending. They knew this before they chose a college to attend.
We also received all bills. AND we had to receive grades as well. We expected our kids to maintain a decent GPA, and not get D or F grades in any courses. I don’t think those are unrealistic expectations.
WRT other money…our kids had to work. We didn’t fund cars (neither had a car in undergrad school), or any discretionary spending like spring break trips, pizzas, meals out, shopping trips (unless for needed clothing).
At this point, if your daughter is extremely uncooperative, perhaps some time with a family counselor can help sort this out. You mention that this was an issue even in high school in terms of how she treats her siblings and you. My opinion, you need to help get to the root of this issue. I don’t think you can do it by yourself, or solely with the help of an online message board.
@twoinanddone You cut her out of your will? Is this something you communicated to her to influence her behavior? I see a lot of comments about ‘I pay so you have to do what I want’ from parents, but I must admit I have not seen comments about disinheriting kids like this because they didn’t want you in their bank account or whatever. Maybe I’m misinterpreting, but your comment really caught my eye!
This is a huge struggle for us. We have had serious talks with her about her behavior before.
She will improve for a while but then it starts up again. We should have put some type of consequence to her actions but once out of the house what can you do? All we have been able to do is remind her. We can’t kick her out of the house because she is already. We can’t tell her we are no longer talking to her because she isn’t talking to us. She will start talking to us as soon as she needs money. She will then be nice again for a while but after a while she is back at her old tricks. It is a revolving door. So the last consequence we have is to no longer support her. She has two years minimum of school left. Do we go back on our agreement and say we won’t support her? We won’t pay for tuition and other expenses. Or do we just continue to let her emotionally abuse us and her siblings for the next two years? Then tell her after that she can’t come around? At this point the behavior isn’t going to change without some form of consequence. Is cutting the money off too severe?
So what causes this behavior. Usually it has been things that she feels we should not have any right to tell her what to do. For instance when she was interning she was making very good money. She bought another vehicle. Granted it wasn’t fancy but still. She had the one we gave her. We had told her that her money from her intern job should be saved for school. It wasn’t. When we found out we wanted her to sell it and use the money for school. She didn’t talk to us for 4 months until she needed money again. She took the fed income tax refund and pocketed it and left me to pay her state and tax prep bill. I had to pay for school and some other frivolous needs all prior to knowing about this vehicle. Oh and bought her $1000 new cell phone. She is now nicey nice again but wants money. She won’t sell the vehicle and I suspect it doesn’t work. She still drives the one we bought her. She knows it is Christmas and she knows what she gets at this time of the year. We want the secrets and this behavior of only talking to us when she needs money to stop. What do we do?
@mom7563 Who pays the car insurance and registration on these multiple cars? If it’s you, that would be one way to step back from the situation. If it’s not you, is she insured?? She definitely thinks of the money she earns as her fun money and everything else should be paid for by you. Sorry, it’s a rough situation.
You might want to talk to a therapist yourself to understand what boundaries you trully want to draw in the sand. It is never too late to change the dynamics of your relationship, but you have to know what you are willing to do. There is going to be pushback anytime you change status quo. Think of what behaviors/expectations you have of her as an adult and I bet a professional will help you make a timeline to figure it out. Not sure cold turkey will get you the long term effect you want either. Sounds like she hasn’t learned some important life skills. If this is a pattern that has happened for years, it is going to take a long time to fix.
At our house, no matter whether we have money or not, on each birthday we celebrate another year closer to becoming an adult which always comes with privileges and responsibilities. I always think about issues I have as whether this is a temporary issue or whether this is a habit/real issue.
What’s her GPA? Do you have access to her grades?
Do you receive bills from the college or do you give her the money to pay the tuition?
Since she earns money, she should be responsible for discretionary spending (it’s also a good “adulting” lesson: money “feels” very different when it’s supposed to be budgeted v. when it’s for fun and games).
I’m not sure if this is a good idea, or even if it’s practical – I do think that “cutting her off financially” is too strong but that you should do something – so here’s an idea I had (and, again, it may be a bad idea, or impractical, I’m just trying to find something that isn’t a punishment strictly speaking but perhaps helps her grow up):
You can also say that at this point, her not talking to you has become your new normal; so, you can make things equal: if she doesn’t call or text with news about her life for a week, you don’t answer her text for money for a week (that would be pretty “common” among parents of adult children BTW, some would text back faster of course especially if they’re on a daily text/call basis, but that’s more uncommon than common I think; giving news once a week is more or less normal, others here could chime in if I’m off the mark). If she doesnt call or text for a month, you don’t answer her “text for money” for a month; if her last text or “here are news, how are you guys” phone call was about 3 months before the current “I need money” text/call, you can wait 3months, no problem, before you discuss money with her. You can live very well without giving her money. It’s a two-way street, you’ll mirror what she does, so it’s entirely up to her.
Seriously, it took me counseling to be able to do that with D2. We don’t know OP’s full backstory and we haven’t shared ours. But sometimes you just have to get there.
To me, the goal is getting them to successful young adulthood. Or “adulting.” Being complicit isn’t the way.
No, I wouldn’t cut her off entirely. But you prioritize- eg, paying tuition.
But you don’t fight fire by lighting more matches. Get counseling.
If you have previously agreed to support her through college, then it is best to honor that agreement.
However, this does not mean that you have to do it in a way that aggravates the conflict. You could say that you will pay tuition, and here is $___ for a reasonable estimate of living expenses, and then ignore any requests for additional money. Dribbling money out a little at a time in response to ad-hoc requests without a pre-planned budget seems like a way to guarantee the continuation of the money-related part of the conflicts you are having with her.
No, she’s not out of the will (not that there is anything to inherit) but is off the bank account and one 401k. If there is anything left, she will have to be nice to her sister to get any of it. (her sister will give it all to her if she asks for it) It wasn’t done as a threat or to get her to do anything. She asked for separate financial arrangements, and she got what she asked for. It was the right decision for us.
She has more money than me but she has her boyfriend listed as beneficiary on her life insurance and accounts, not me or her sister. She doesn’t want me involved, doesn’t want my advice for anything financial, so she got what she wanted. This was AFTER she needed my help financing her car and insurance as she got a much better rate on both if I was co-owner.
She’s fine financially. She doesn’t have much to complain about (financially) to me so makes our relationship better too.
What is she asking for money for when she communicates? Is it tuition is due or is it I need money for something extra? You have agreed to pay for college, I assume tuition room and board, and I think you need to honor that if you have any hope of repairing your relationship with her. However, beyond that (and whatever you want to do for birthday/holiday gifts) I wouldn’t be giving her other money. If you didn’t tell her upfront she needed to contribute xx dollars of her summer money for school, it is hard to enforce that.
You can’t force her to want to communicate wit you and participate with the family right now. But kids mature and come back to the fold. If I were you, my goals would be to have her get her degree and to do my best to repair the relationship looking toward the future. If it turns out that she turns away, you will know you did your best. However, that doesn’t mean she gets to abuse the family. It is not easy to navigate that line.
Family counseling sounds like it would be really good in this situation. It may help you to hear her “side” of the story and may help her to see how her actions are negatively impacting your family. If you can’t get her to go, talking to someone yourself would help you to figure out the path forward.
@twoinanddone Ah, okay, you’re talking about a fully out of the nest child, I guess I was thinking college student (because of the forum we are in). Yes, it makes sense for everyone to have their own private finances at that point. When you say you have someone on your bank account, do you mean as a beneficiary if you die? I was just confused as to what that meant, and hopefully you will live a very long and healthy life and that won’t be an issue for a very long time!
2021 is a new year (can’t wait!) so start a new financial program. Write it all out and send it to her NOW. This is what you will pay and when you will pay it:
tuition at the beginning of the semester directly to school (if you have access to the bill)
-cell phone and insurance, like health, car, rental? monthly as part of family bill, (she doesn’t have to worry about it, but she should see how much you are paying for her)
-her rent to her on the 25th of the month so she can pay landlord on the 1st.
-Anything else? (food, monthly allowance, clothing?) Include it on the list, but stick to the list.
If you give her a generous Christmas gift, you know she has a good start/cushion to the new budget.
When she calls in March for more money, the answer is sorry, not on list. You know she has a phone, car, insurance, rent, so she is not desperate for any ‘need.’
You can present this as a new program as the prior system of her having to call you for money is hard on both of you and you want money not to be the focus of all your communications. Make the budget generous but not too generous. You’ll pay the insurance on the car you provided but not on her new car. You pay for rent but not for a luxury apartment.
Then just send her texts about life at your house. “Sister is back in school in person, Granny is coming to dinner on Sunday”. She’ll ignore them and then someday she’ll answer one.
What we did during college was pay for tuition/room/board, books, medicine, phone, travel home. Anything else was on them to get a summer job to pay for. Our youngest only had a car for senior year.
So if your daughter bought a car, you should just say “give us the old one back” unless it was a gift to her. You could say that she has to pay any difference on the insurance. Otherwise it is her life.
I’m confused- you agreed to pay for tuition, but then told her she needed to save her internship money for school? She bought a car in secret- did she pay for the insurance?
As far as Christmas- she is 21, she doesn’t need a Christmas equal to her younger siblings. We already gave our 20-year-old her gifts- clothes for her new job and a suitcase, nothing that wasn’t a necessity. You have to cut the cord somewhere- that could be a place to start!