“There are doctors who misdiagnose.”
In both directions, though. Some folks shop doctors to get a diagnosis. Not indicating that anyone here has done that before I get attacked but it does happen. Testing for learning disabilities can be subjective.
Oddly, Roethlisberger, you’re arguing opinion, too.
We need to stop arguing as if we’re this kid’s parents. It’s their decision.
But better informed often trumps assuming.
And I think the best way to do that is for the parents to back off and let the consequences happen. This is not a situation where a child is engaging in life-endangering behavior – such as substance abuse. It is a still-teenage college student with terrible study habits who is not managing the balance between study & play very well – in part because he is in an environment that affords so many opportunities and enticements toward play.
If that kid were able to “play hard” but also had managed to sustain a 3.2 rather than a 2.9 GPA… no one would see it as an issue. The parents probably wouldn’t even know when the student had skipped class or been late on an assignment. And that may be a piece of the consequence problem – some students can and do get away with a lot of slacking off without it adversely affecting grades, or at least not in a way that impacts scholarship eligibility.
If this kid loses his scholarship at the end of next semester, it won’t be the end of the world. He’ll have 3 semesters of transferrable credit and some time to figure out the next steps for his life.
If the parents pull the kid out of school now — he’ll be in the same place as he would be if he can’t pull up his grade in a semester – except with only 2 semesters of transferrable credit. So no particular advantage for the parents to pull the plug, other than paying tuition and housing costs for another semester at a college that the student may not graduate from.
This student isn’t failing. It’s not the situation I was in with my son, who had incompletes and “D” grades in courses that couldn’t be transferred.
I think some of the “magical” thinking is CC-magic – a world where all the kids are amazing and will go off to colleges to be top performers – and any inability of the kid to maintain the trajectory of a serious, disciplined scholar has to be pathologized.
This is an incredible helpful thread, even if it has veered quite a bit from the OP’s intention. @Corraleno wrote a ? spot-on description of my child:
“Attention “Deficit” Disorder is a bit of a misnomer, because the problem isn’t lack of attention as much as it’s too much attention paid to too many things. That’s why EF issues tend to go hand-in-hand with ADD — when there are so many assignments and deadlines and projects, it’s hard to prioritize them and focus on one at a time. It just all feels like a huge overwhelming cloud hanging over their heads. And that often creates anxiety, which can lead to kids purposely adding even more distractions in order to push some of the impending deadlines out of mind for a little while, to provide temporary relief from feeling so anxious and overwhelmed.”
My child is heading off to college in 3 months, and I’m afraid I might be writing in a year with the exact same question the OP is considering. Not sure what to do other than encourage her to sign up with accessibility services (she does have a diagnosis), and be honest with herself and others about her progress and challenges.
If a parent said they aren’t willing to pay $60k, $40k, or even $20k for a child’s voluntary education when that child isn’t getting the most from that educational opportunity (in the parent’s mind), who are we to give them either credit or blame? Welcome to the responsibility of parenting.
“I don’t agree there’s a clear difference between laziness and beyond his control. Maybe, all lazy people are that way because their brains are wired to be lazy. It doesn’t change the reality most employers won’t interview anyone with less than a 3.0. Whether he has ADHD or executive function disorders or not, there’s no point in keeping someone in school unless there’s a realistic plan for him to get at least a 3.1 next year.”
I tend to agree – my daughter swore up and down she tried her hardest and I was unsure of that (suspected quite a bit of partying going on) and I finally said you know what? If you tried your hardest and all you could do was a 1.9 then you really are NOT in the right environment, and if you partied your way through your first year, you really are not ready to be there. SAME ENDING and no reason to argue.
ADHD is not tested objectively. A questionnaire is subjective. That is the reality. The assessments can be gamed, sure, but they can also be helpful. I don’t think further debate on this is helpful.
I think that it is important to say that no matter what the parents decide, things can work out. I would avoid debt for a bad transcript, period. Other than that, the son can graduate and go on to work, with an academic record that is less than stellar, or can leave school, work and finish p/t. Or decide not to do school at all. All kinds of things can happen. As long as our kids stay alive and off dangerous substances, there are no disasters and always potential.
I respect all parenting philosophies, as long as they are consistent. I think consistency is the important thing for our children, so they know what to expect. I tend toward leniency myself, aiming for support versus consequences. But I know some great parents whose system for rewards and punishments was very structured and effective. I could never parent like that but the kids turned out fine.
There is a lot of debate here on topics that don’t relate to the OP.
To the OP, in my life I have seen likable people go past hard workers at jobs all the time. I am not joking. Your son must have some assets that help. I hope one way or the other that he and you can get to the bottom of beach versus work decisions. Whether that means a diagnosis and accommodations, or time out from school, or some other option will be clear.
Many of us have been there and I just want to stop debating my own point of view and wish you good luck in dealing with a difficult situation, with the message, again, that over time things tend to work out 
I want to thank everyone who posted on here. All your advice and the discussion has been helpful.
He still doesn’t have a grade from the late paper class. It was actually 2 late papers, if I didn’t mention that before, because he turned one in to the prof online rather than the admin assistant as required, so prof didn’t have it.
In talking with S, he had it all figured out. He was getting 3 As (including in the course with the papers issue), which would balance out 1 1/2 lower grades. Of course this didn’t happen. And, he couldn’t get the paper done because he put all his effort into studying for a class he had a low C in (maybe a D, who knows), getting an A- on the final). He didn’t want to talk to the prof about the paper bc he was embarrassed that he’d stopped going to class and didn’t want to face him. His computer broke and he figured he’d just turn the paper in when he returned to campus. He assumed the prof would accept it bc “he’s nice.”
Anyway, if the prof actually gives him a grade, we’ll be able to see if it’s even feasible for him to attain a CGPA of 3.0 next semester.
Just watching him since he returned home, it’s easy to see his problems. Pleasure always comes 1st. I’ve given him articles to help him learn delayed gratification.
Plus, he doesn’t think of the obvious (like, email or call your teacher, or, submit job applications to multiple places.) This last thing is hard to explain. When he was born, my H heard a piece on NPR and thought he was autistic. He had many of the signs as a baby. When he got older, there were other things that seemed different from all the other kids. He would watch all the other kids, but didn’t know how to interact. I had to teach him to go up, say hi and his name, and ask them their name. He could recite books back verbatim but not summarize (this is still a problem for him).
For years, he’s been saying things no one can believe (including his 3 yr younger siblings). Ex. We watched the movie Gravity, and he wondered how they got astronauts who were such good actors (9th grade I think). I can’t think of the many examples, but apparently all his friends in college have noticed, and just laugh (with him). He now believes he’s on the spectrum (we’ve talked about this with him before bc we’re so astounded by some of the things he doesn’t get.). S’s grandfather is definitely on spectrum, H is not as much as his father; neither exhibit the traits S does). In S, there’s a lack of observation (big sign, Mini cooper for sale, S sits in car, loves it, asks what kind of car is this, little sister (age 5) scoffs, it says it’s a Mini Cooper) and a naivity very unusual for someone his age (and a working memory as high as they could test)… He’s never been diagnosed as autistic though. How this characteristic affects his choices, I don’t know.
Good luck, OP, and thank you for the update. It may be worthwhile to investigate colleges with programs for those on the spectrum, so you know what options there are and alternatives, maybe even closer to home.
@havenoidea Sounds like your son might be “twice exceptional,” that is somebody who is simultaneously gifted but also processes the world differently than the “norm” (whatever that is). Or he may simply be gifted. There is a lot of literature that discusses how gifted students learn, including psychological tendencies that may be self-defeating (for example, excessive perfectionism leading to inaction) that often correlate with giftedness.
Of course, he may also be doing his fair share of youthful goofing off. After all, most of us would probably prefer a day at the beach to slogging away on a paper. It’s possible that multiple factors might be in play. Regardless of the reason(s) behind the behaviors, it sounds like you are doing what you can to figure it out in order to come up with appropriate solutions. Best of luck moving forward.
I had to teach a young D1 how to do some social interactions. Saying hi and joining other kids in kindergarten. Or goodbye to friends when I picked her up. She did learn the skills.
The recent update adds to the picture. I’m still not sure I’d leave a kid like this to a simple, “succeed or drop out” demand. Sounds like he needs coaching or mentoring on some processing and decisions. Not to baby him, but to help him reach his fuller potential.
To me, the future issue isn’t that employers dont like distractibility. It may be that his social skills exceed his decision maturity and may mask a problem that needs attention before it affects jobs, money management, or a close personal relationship.
Best to you. It’s tough.
It sounds like this kid is thriving socially, and that that hasn’t come easy for him in the past. I imagine he’s valuing those connections a great deal!
Very few of us get the kids we expect, and he sounds like a kid with both gifts and struggles. There are no easy answers, but I applaud the OP for casting a wide net to gather opinions and perspectives on how to support this unique young man.
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His choices are logical within the context of his own flawed thinking. From what you’ve described, his decision to go to the beach wasn’t, to him, a choice between “go to the beach and get a bad grade” or “skip the beach and get a good grade,” it was “go to the beach AND get a good grade because the prof will accept the paper when I get back.” Prof is a nice guy —> therefore prof will accept late paper —> therefore I can go to the beach and just submit when I get back. The logic makes sense; the problem is that the premise (nice profs accept late papers without consequences) was flawed.
As the parent of another 2E (“twice exceptional”) kid, I really really urge you to stop framing his issues as character flaws he has complete control over if only he would try harder, and see them as problems with the way he processes information and understands the world. As a child he needed to be taught explicitly how to interact with other kids. Now as a college student he needs to be taught explicitly how this system works and how to manage his coursework, job, social life, etc. And realize what a true blessing it is that he is happy and thriving and has lots of friends who accept his quirkiness, because so many kids are seriously struggling with that (see the thread on the mental health crisis in colleges).
Autism Spectrum Disorder and ADHD are both diagnosed with behavioral checklists. One kid can check 6 boxes and get a label while another kid might only check 5 boxes and therefore get no diagnosis. Yet there may be very little difference in the extent to which they struggle with daily tasks. The great curse of “twice exceptional” kids is that their high IQ often disguises their disabilities just enough that they not only don’t get any help or accommodations for them, they get accused of not trying hard enough, not caring, just being lazy or sloppy, etc. Imagine how confusing that is for a kid who IS trying, who is making choices that seem perfectly logical to them, who is basically told “stop being the way you are start acting neurotypical,” with no real explanation or help on how to do that.
OP, your son sounds like a great kid. And he sounds HAPPY — you have no idea what a true blessing that is. Don’t take that away from him in the hope than unhappiness (leaving a school he loves, leaving his friends, living at home and working a crappy job) will magically change the way his brain works. Help him navigate, help him figure this stuff out, help him be the best HIM he can be. Don’t expect him to be another you.
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Corraieno- Your post is so clear and thoughtful. WOW. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I know your post will help so many people. I bet it will help the OP and her son as well.
Maybe you could contact the college’s disability office? They might have experience in how students with his condition fare as the work gets harder and more independent after freshman year. Do you think he actually understands the 3.0 and loss of award issue, or not really, and if not, will it matter? Are there steps you can implement this summer to improve that?
Wow, @Corraleno, what a good post. TBH, it wasn’t until spending this week with him that the autism thought arose again, and in responding to posts that I wondered if this could affect his decisions. No teachers ever suggested this could be a problem, though they did bring up issues from the time he was young: he needed to “learn humbleness and humility regarding his academic abilities” (1st grade), he was distracting the class because he finished too early but still got 100s though he wasn’t paying attention, he was “very social and happy,” though in reality he had no friends. We really believed when he hit puberty in 10th and tried to be popular that his behavior was within his control - and I still believe some of it is. But I never thought about the fact that his explanations for why he does what he does always rest on flawed logic, and how that may tie into, say, flawed thinking that a movie was actually filmed in space.
The neuropsych testing pointed to personality issues mainly, a gifted IQ (but normal, not sky high) and the great memory. The spectrum thought is just us having watched him develop over the years.
I do feel bad for him, and he does finally have friends who accept him. I think we need to work with the school regarding close advising, and executive function issues.
He does understand about the 3.0 and scholarship, but now says even if he gets an F in that class, “all he needs is a 3.6” which would be well and good, if we can get some structure in place so he doesn’t go back to more of the same.
I’m looking into how to help him with all this over the summer too.
@Corraleno I just copied your post to my journal…it brought tears to my eyes because i"m struggling with my high school sophomore son who, like @havenoidea’s son is “normally gifted,” but I swear there’s some thing else going on. He’s not ADHD or anything that shows up quickie school-based tests, but I think there’s something else going on.
I tend to blame it on laziness and lack of motivation, so I really needed to hear Corraleno’s post. It’s almost like the laziness and “whatever” attitude is a coping mechanism for something else that’s going on…
Sorry to get a bit off topic, but I so appreciate you both sharing.
From what you say about your son, I’m guessing that he’s probably good with math, so he probably does have the numbers figured out as to what he needs. It’s the part about actually getting that 3.6 that’s more difficult — he’s assuming he can pull things out, when his actual history says something else.
But then again, a LOT of students really don’t hit their stride in college until sophomore year – and the social scene at colleges does also change as his peers and friends mature as well, and tend to get more focused on their studies and majors. So many students can and do improve performance in later semesters. So no particular need to assume that the kid won’t be able to pull his grades up where necessary.
I think that a lot of the problems you describe are life lessons that some kids need to learn the hard way – and there is only so much a parent can do. You can talk yourself blue in the face, but that doesn’t mean the kid is going to take what you say to heart or act on it.
It seems to me that you’ve already done what you can as a parent – including having your son work with a therapist – so I still go back to giving your son the opportunity to succeed – or not. As I’ve noted several times, pulling him out now doesn’t create an improved situation for him – it just really cuts off the possibility that he might be able to succeed next semester and preserve his scholarship. And creates a whole other set of “what next” concerns that may or may not have to be addressed after another semester. So I don’t really see a good reason not to allow him another semester. Either he’ll manage to pull up his grades or he won’t.
I disagree. I think he needs coaching. If there’s an underlying issue, and it sounds like OP thinks there is, it’s not going to be helpful to him to just ignore it.
To work with the disabilities office, you need a diagnosis and documentation. That can result in accommodations like extensions on papers, extra advising, reduced course load and so on.
If you or he do not pursue a diagnosis of some sort, then you can still try to provide a tutor or coach. The problem is, that can be expensive.
I think @Corraleno’s post was great.
I think the main point here is that getting him help may be better than the “consequence” of leaving.
I don’t know why there has been so much debate but the recent posts from the OP seems to have clarified the point.