As @TS0104 mentioned, it’s also important to think about the big picture and what your daughter hopes to achieve in college. @CMA22’s post from this thread is so important to read, again and again, particularly when one is feeling pressure from the Jones’ who think they know best but don’t know much.
It can be hard dealing with know-it-alls who place a premium on appearances and name-dropping, but think instead of the value that finding the right college for your daughter will bring. Additionally, it might help you feel pity towards those individuals as you realize how insecure they must be to be derisive about any one else’s personal decisions.
I don’t know if I buy this line of reasoning although I agree with virtually everything else AustenNut posts!
There are folks who are derisive about virtually everything other people do. You can’t avoid them entirely. People who love to spend your money, people who think that their idea of vacation is the only type of relaxation there is, people who can’t fathom why you are still wearing a mask even though the infection rate is “only” 5% in your city (do they know you take care of someone with a compromised immune system? Is it any of their business?)
So if I were the OP I’d focus on my D- what she wants out of her college experience, who she is now and who she might become by being challenged and pushed out of her comfort zone, the kinds of things she likes to do and who she likes to do it with. And then figure out the finances and make a list based on that.
Worrying about other people’s insecurities or pitying them or whatever is just a waste of energy. You can only parent the kids in front of you!
An additional note- I’ve observed a trend over the last few years- the “multiple safety school” trend. Back in the day when I was applying to college, everyone had one safety- lots of people ended up there- and then for kicks and giggles you may (or may not) have applied more broadly.
That’s not a “thing” anymore- I’m seeing kids with a pretty robust list of “sure bet” schools- in part because nobody wants to go where everyone else is going (as it was explained to me), in part because the kid who thinks he wants to be close by in October decides that a 6 hour drive is perfect by April (and vice-versa), and in part because kids are still sorting out how different college is going to be from HS. So they aren’t sure- is the warm and fuzzy feeling they get on Campus A because it’s so comfortable- is that good or bad? Does “my gosh this place is so big” feeling on Campus B mean that by sophomore year they’ll have figured it out and still have time/place/opportunity to grow, or is it overwhelming?
So even if you and your D decide that big brother’s school is “one and done” (hooray!) there is no harm in having a few other applications out there “just in case”. Everyone likes a choice, or so I am told (I’d happily eat mint chip ice cream every single day, so what do I know from 31 flavors?)
D20 went to a ‘no-name’ school for very particular reasons (cost being one of the top 3) and has loved her time there thus far. She is participating in a very prestigious, fully paid-for program this summer and the rest of the students run the gamut of ‘named institutes’ - Yale, Dartmouth, Brown, University of Texas, Austin, Tufts, Brandeis, UNC-Chapel Hill, Stanford, UChicago etc. When they were sharing their school names, there were a lot of ? faces when she gave hers.
And yet, they are all in the same program, doing the same thing. Getting the same fully-funded experience. You don’t have to go to a name school to get the education and experience that will open the doors you are interested in entering.
SUNY school are pretty uniformly very good to excellent. Your daughter will get where she wants to go regardless of what name her school carries (especially when it comes to engineering). Good luck to her this upcoming admission season - I am sure she will end up with great choices, and I agree with those who encourage you to help her see all the options available.
Oh, I totally agree that there are people derisive about lots of things. And there is no need to expend extra energy on those individuals. But if the derision those people express (which I think usually relates to their own insecurities more often than not) is bothering someone, then if someone’s going to be thinking about those people, then they should be thinking that those people are insecure and not that the judgmental people are correct in their assessments.
But yes, the focus should totally be on OP’s daughter and what’s best for her. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear previously!
I’m way late to the game but I recall seeing that you may road trip to OH to see Case? If you are heading that way, Miami of OH would be worth visiting. Your D would see merit and students there seem incredibly happy.
If you don’t mind going a wee bit further…Purdue rocks ; ). $40K/year for OOS and tuition has been frozen for 11 years now. Would be more expensive than SUNY options but less than your $60K/yr budget.
Full disclosure: I know nothing about engineering. I do have a kid at W&L so I thought of these posts when this story popped up on wlunews Instagram today about a recent engineering grad. Here is a link to the full article in The Columns (campus news).
ETA: @Bill_Marsh, I didn’t mean to specifically reply to you. This does relate to your and @aquapt’s posts.
The markets will be adjusting a lot of people’s plans - but i think the guidance above works at much lower costs than even your new # - so i’d read the entire chain again.
Examples again - OOS, Alabama, UAH, Arizona, Florida State, Ms State - schools like these - all low 20s - and tons of schools under $55K - SUNY or otherwise. Even a stalwart like a Purdue, etc.
There’s no timing the market. I wanted to put all the funds in eldest’s 529 account into bonds or cash in the fall, but I only did it for the 1st year’s tuition.
When I applied way back in the good old days, the top-tier SUNYs were four major campuses - Albany, SB, Binghamton, Buffalo, I’m assuming that’s the same. If so, then a mid-tier like New Paltz would be totally fine for MechE. If your daughter were interested in other majors, that’s where the four larger campuses could be better as they’d have more majors.
There are a lot of great suggestions on the thread, those that are affordable and within driving distance (you mentioned avoiding air fares) and I would urge expanding the list to include the colleges that give merit.
Just re-reading a bunch of these- thank you to everyone for the plethora of suggestions.
W&L is an interesting one I knew/know little about. I poked around a bit, and my findings were:
wonderful school with general engineering (non-ABET), and good outcomes
possibility for $0 cost education exists
VERY remote location- I don’t see many direct or easy way to the school unless you go through Charlotte or drive
searching for a place in the evolving racial landscape- a bit bogged down by its name and history. Its not clear to me how committed the administration is, but maybe more importantly, what the experience is and will be for the next 4 years for students of color.
I know, as a Jewish student, they pushed hard on my daughter. Trying to add more. It seems like the racial diversity is a focus. Stop and talk to anyone on campus as we did and nothing but good is said.
Roanoke is the closest airport.
They are not ABET for engineering which many companies require but their outcomes seem strong.
Wonderful school with awesome merit opportunities (for non need families). Bit expensive if you don’t get (we interviewed for a full tuition and got admitted but no merit).
The campus is immaculate, gorgeous…,and write up the hill from a cute downtown.
I personally wouldn’t hesitate if the overall vibe suits the child but the non ABET could turn folks away.
I think the diversity divide is being heavily addressed but people hold perceptions forever. And that will always be there. There are some folks on the board with kids attending.
If you mean for the overall school, WLU does have connections and pipeline to Wall Street, which may be helpful for students with that goal.
However, College Navigator says that only 7 out of 444 students in a recent WLU class graduated with engineering majors, and College Scorecard has insufficient data on pay outcomes for recent engineering graduates who used federal financial aid at WLU.
So it seems that, using publicly available information, there is not much one can assume about WLU engineering outcomes.
For civil engineering, or any other career path that involves designing things used by the general public, or any career path involving the patent exam, an ABET-accredited program should be considered required or highly advantageous.
In terms of WLU in particular, regardless of the merits or not of the engineering program, its small size as well as non-ABET-accredited status may make it less attractive for engineering recruiting. WLU’s pipeline and connections to Wall Street may cause some of the few engineering majors to go there instead of traditional engineering career paths.
OP may find the student outcomes section of the W&L newsletter of interest.
Here’s one of a graduate of the engineering program:
In addition to reading The Columns, I’d also recommend reading the Ring Tum Phi which is a student run newsletter that is independent of the university.
OP, my daughter is a rising sophomore at W&L and a recipient of the Johnson scholarship. I’m happy to answer any questions.
Someone linked my thread about the decision to keep the name. We are not POC/URM so I don’t feel I’m the best to answer to that experience. I can say my D was very involved in diversity and inclusivity initiatives in high school and has continued at W&L so has many close friends who are. Feel free to PM me if you’d like me to get your student in contact with my D/her friends.
During the application process my D did request zoom sessions specifically with students and faculty of color, LGBTQ students, etc to ask these type questions. Her general impression (then and now a year later) is that most W&L students and faculty are supportive of continuing efforts to improve diversity and to provide a better experience for URM (especially African Americans).
This does relate to your and 