@9101transfermum I am a bit confused. You say he went on meds, but he reported they didn’t work but now he says he is not depressed? Do you think he is depressed or otherwise has mental health issues? I could hear the difference in my son’s voice when he was down.
Meds can take a while to work At least 6 weeks usually before improvement is seen. Did your son give it a fair shot? Many people discontinue them because they don’t see a change plus they can make them feel different. But while the patient may not notice a difference or think they don’t work it may be very apparent to others around them that they are working (down to the “did you take your medicine today?” It can be that obvious). Others can see the attitude change, the energy level pick up, and renewed interest in things all while the patient says they aren’t working.
And if one doesn’t work another may work.
Does he like the therapist? Does he want to go or just humoring you? What does he want out of it? He says he is not depressed but exhibits signs.
A good therapist who works with teens may be the way to go. They see this behavior often (you certainly are not alone!) Often high schools can suggest someone in the community. (I know he’s not a teen but it’s the same scenario).
All I can say is “hugs” and hang in there! I know the “I hate you” s really are heart stabbing but take deep breaths and keep trucking. They are a symptom of pain and you are unfortunately the easy target.
He never thought he had a problem in the first place. He is not easy to deal with.
He says he is not depressed. But if you won’t do any work and won’t try to improve your situation, I think you must be depressed or anxious or have some problem. But I am not a medical professional
Thank you. I don’t really think he gave the meds a fair shot. I wish he would try a different one. I think there is also an attention problem. At times he said he would try and sit down and do work but he just couldn’t get himself to do it. I also think he gets overwhelmed and has a fear of failure
He is not good with sticking with a plan. If he thinks he takes one pill or has a good attitude or tries hard one day, everything should just be fine and dandy. But we know you have to keep trying, working, persevering— it is a long road
How was he doing the first two years of college? Was he always “not good at sticking to a plan?” I’ll point out that no plan is worth anything if not followed through on. You both know that.
Just going to say IF he is depressed (and there is that possibility that he is not but just “stuck” in some way) that it can very much be a version of the “spirit is willing but the body is not”. It will look like self sabotage to you. Frustrating to both of you. You’ll be saying “just do it” and he’ll be saying “I can’t. I don’t know why. I know you’re right but nothing here.” Out loud he’ll say “get off my back.”
I doubt very much that failing classes was part of a plan And maybe he isn’t depressed and I’m stabbing in the dark but depression is more than sadness. It can be a “don’t care about anything at all”. “I WANT to care but just don’t. My brain knows all the consequences of my actions but I don’t FEEL anything. at all.”
Just adding – How is he with friends? Common to be great with friends and then let loose on family. Only enough energy before the melt down.
Again, maybe this isn’t even close to the situation. but if it is get another therapist for him. The psyche tests can help diagnose.
3 Likes
I’m so sorry to hear about the situation you are facing. Though I’ve been a regular reader of this forum, I rarely post. Your post hit home for me because it is so similar to the situation we faced with our son.
From a young age our boy was a strong student, so we knew that he could handle his engineering coursework at a top public university.
We didn’t account for a bad breakup in senior year of high school, an accident in freshman year of college resulting in a brain injury, and undiagnosed anxiety/depression that grew exponentially at college. I’ve lost track of how many quarters he withdrew over the years. He was self-medicating with alcohol and marijuana. Nothing seemed to work, even with all the medical help and therapy he was receiving. We always walked on pins and needles out of fear of him harming himself. I was also going to therapy to help myself deal with the situation. Through all of this, he insisted on going back to school and keeping his tough major. We tried to convince him to take an extended period of time off (a year or more), take classes at the community college and work on himself, but he didn’t want to do it. I always gave in and let him go back because it was honestly just the easier choice - but definitely not the right choice.
As horrible as COVID-19 has been, it has been a godsend for our family because it forced him to be at home in our care. He came home last March after a disastrous winter quarter. He retook two classes in the spring that he didn’t pass the previous quarter and did well. He took a summer class while working full-time and did well. He finally worked on changing his major and switched out of engineering and into a math field. This fall he could only get a couple of classes for his major, so he worked full-time at his essential job at the same time and did really well with classes. He is currently taking his hardest schedule yet (three technical classes) and working 20 hours/week, but he feels really great about school. I’ve been his biggest cheerleader throughout and I’m pretty sure he appreciates it.
He has admitted to me that having the structure of work and school with no distractions (can only ‘see’ friends on Zoom) has helped him get back on track, which has in turn boosted his confidence in himself. I echo @blossom to ‘own’ the accusations he throws at you. In the moment, that is his reality. It can be healing for him to hear his parent admit that maybe life was not perfect, and to validate his feelings. Eventually, he will hopefully be able to take some responsibility for his problems instead of just blaming you. My husband and I would quietly listen to him blame us, then grumble in private 
My son’s college experience will be a marathon, not a sprint. Part of me worries about the next school year (his last) when he will be back on campus. I know he can now see the light at the end of the tunnel, so I will continue to be optimistic and make sure he knows I have his back. I just wanted to relay my story to give you a glimmer of hope.
You didn’t mention if your son was on campus or remote when his grades suffered. And how did he do the first two years of college?
7 Likes
Thanks for sharing. Your story does give me a glimmer of hope. I’m happy to hear your son has done well in recent classes
In high school my son was lazy. He did very well but never wanted to do homework. I would take away privileges when I found out he missed work and we fought a lot
He went to a smaller state college for his first year but says he hated it there so he transferred to the more prestigious university in Ann Arbor. He barely passed his first semester. He kept saying the classes were interesting and easy but he didn’t want to do the work.
Like, what?!?
The next semester was worse. Covid started so he had to come home
I could see he went to zoom classes every day. Then was in his computer most of the day but apparently he was not turning around in any work. He refused to get a tutor and failed to classes
We told him he had to get a job over the summer but he never did. At that time he was still an engineering major and the classes were hard and he just thought he could skate by in the classes like he did in high school. So he did no work and failed. We told him he should take a summer class to try and make up the credits. And if he passed, we withdrew continue to pay for college. We made him pay for the summer class. I thought if it was his money, he works try hard. But he failed it
So he changed his major from engineering to international studies. But failed all 4 classes this last semester. So we said there is no was we would pay for classes this semester He would need to get a job and figure things out and we would pay for college once he was ready to be a serious student again
He refused to get a job in December and January but we told him we wouldn’t pay for his February rent if he didn’t work. So he reluctantly is starting a job today. I hope he works for a couple months and realizes how good he has it and it is his future he needs to be concerned with and that he wants to go go back to school and try his best. I’m also ok if he doesn’t want to go back to college. It is is just life. But then HE has to figure out what he wants and get a job. We will not just give him money to live while he does nothing
He keeps saying he wants to be in school. But if he does, why didn’t he do the work in his classes.
He failed 7 classes in a row. It boggles my mind
There are elements of not sticking to a plan
I happened to see a “to do” list in his room once at the beginning of a semester. It was extremely ambitious: workout, learn a language, learn guitar, do all school work, work on his car. And as soon as he didn’t do one thing on the list, he quit the list and didn’t do any of the list ever again
He hav some friends. But he had a falling out with his best high school friends and they don’t talk to him anymore. He never told me why but I know it hurts him to see them get together without him anymore
He has always self sabotaged himself. I think it is easier to say “I failed because I didn’t try rather than to say I tried hard and still failed”
I think the only way for him to overcome his problems is to really admit to the core what is the problem (fear, anxiety, lack of motivation, etc) and deeply work in it in therapy or get medication. I think the psychological testing would help so much but he won’t go because he says he doesn’t need it.
So he continues to go to his therapist And resent me and blame me for his problems. He is still mad at me that I wouldn’t pay for his classes this semester
But personally, I think I could have paid for his classes and his car and given him tons of money and he still would not be happy. At least hopefully he works at this job and learns something: a feeling of purpose and accomplishment, or a realization that he really wants to try in school, or at least he just makes some money and clears his head of some stress snd anxiety
You’re right, he cannot go back to school with 7 failed classes. Working will hopefully do him good. If he’s never had to study and manage his time, he never learned. He’s like a third grader - enrolled in Engineering then in International Studies, which requires a very different skill set (neither of which is innate). He doesn’t know that not being to able to skate by doesnt mean he cant do it. He’s got to build the skills. Once he’s figured things out, that it isn’t easy, that it takes time, that he’s not stupid for getting stuck, that it’s normal to struggle and spend time dedicated to his subjects, he’ll be able to return to college, but it’ll take some time.
However:
Have you had him evaluated for Executive Dysfunction?
(Writing a completely undoable list then giving up when failing to do what wasn’t possible in the first place could be an indication.)
2 Likes
I have never heard of executive dysfunction. But maybe it is something they test for in the complete psychological exam that he was scheduled for. He refuses to go. But I’m going to still keep pushing. He obviously cannot get “unstuck” himself and it makes no sense to go back to school this fall and just make all the same mistakes again. I hope between now and then he will get tested.
1 Like
I agree. He has poor study skills and time management skills. He won’t keep notes about anything
But he won’t get help with anything. He thinks the Dean of students is stupid, tutors are stupid, the Wellness and Motivation Center is stupid, study groups are stupid. Of course I am stupid. Surprising he still goes to a therapist but that’s so he can talk about how awful I am to him.
How long has been seeing the therapist? Is there any improvement? Maybe time for a new one?
Replying to give you a ‘cyber hug’ I am sorry that you are going through this.
You have received so much good advice that I won’t try to add but the new job might be good for giving structure and building confidence. A break from school might be good too. School is all our kids have known since preschool so I think it’s comforting in a way even when it’s not working out similar to a bad personal relationship. There is also an expectation that they go and become such and such without truly feeling they want to be such and such. It can be parental pressure or self imposed pressure that this is what ‘should’ be done because of societal expectations. This can be subtle and unconscious not some uber achievement oriented striver expectation.
The To Do list was a goal list.
2 Likes
Same therapist for 10 months. He won’t see another one. So I’m at least glad he goes to this one
Thugs won’t change unless something changes. It is up to him. He had to do the hard therapy work or her psychological testing. I can’t force him
I’m hoping the job is a catalyst. At least it is a change
There are multiple skills you develop at any job that you don’t get doing schoolwork even successfully. It’s trite but true.
2 Likes
A good therapist is not going to let a patient coast for months with no meaningful effort on the part of the patient. Can you schedule a four-way meeting (you, spouse, son, therapist) NOT to have a family counseling session (since your son isn’t interested) but to talk about the goals of his treatment and how you- as a family- can help, facilitate, support?
7 Likes
Is he getting enough sleep?
He seems stressed about something, and the fact that you may not pay his rent and fees is increasing his stress levels. Students, esp boys, often feel like they are drowning if they can’t cope with a situation that is actually quite small and then snowballs. It seems like he is feeling overwhelmed, maybe with the “prestigious state university” bit? Unreasonable expectations?
Have you offered him a holiday lately? Not sure how to in this pandemic, but some time off school might help.
1 Like
I’m so sorry. There are so many underlying reasons that could be at play here, but I just wanted to offer that I have a couple overlapping experiences.
I just barely got through undergrad, took 5 years, wasn’t easy. In my case it wasn’t mental health issues but I went out all the time and never studied. But my last year (after my friends all graduated) I got my act together, later did really well in grad school.
One of my kids suffers from mental health issues, failed out freshman year (without telling us) and experienced just about every imaginable problem. She was also convinced that I was the cause for ALL of her problems–everything is always my fault. There was not a lot of logic there. And I can’t tell you how much I worried. It was always challenging, no doubt. I will say that she has always seeked therapy and treatment, and even then it was hard. But she has turned much of it around, is in grad school, doing really really well.
But Collegemom3717’s quotes below ring so true to me from that time. We tried to keep this in mind all the time. My husband and I tried to just be supportive, and there, despite it all. We had far more expenses but deep down we felt that we had to be a safe spot for her, and we just wanted to make sure we had a good relationship for the long run.
2 Likes
It is very difficult to figure all of this out. Executive function is part of ADD, especially the inattentive kind. That could be an issue here. Many bright kids are able to manage their ADD through HS because they do well enough on tests without studying to mitigate for the missed homework. And with the help/nagging of parents to get things done and get to school on time. In college that strategy often doesn’t work, especially as classes get harder.
Yay for him getting a job. That is a big accomplishment and hope he can keep it. One piece of advice from a mom who has been there, done that, try to avoid having every conversation focus on his plans, whether he is going back to school, etc. Mine did not fail out, but decided it didn’t make sense to continue to spend our money when he just wasn’t able to push himself to do the necessary work and was not willing to take ADD meds. At some point, he CHOSE to start them on his own and finds he is doing much better.
I agree with trying to see if he will give you permission to speak to the therapist.
2 Likes
You have been thinking and saying he is lazy for some time, apparently, since you wrote that was the basis for fighting during high school. Have you read “The Myth of Laziness”?
I feel a lot of empathy for your son. Clearly he is motivated, and that list is heartbreaking. Clearly, for whatever reason, he is not able to carry it out.
I think you need to try not to judge so much, and have some empathy for him too. Tough love is not working. Try to support him. Maybe he will come around to testing for undiagnosed reasons for his failures, if you express support rather than so much judgment.
Sorry I “held my tongue” on this public forum but I think you need to look at your own responses to this situation, with your therapist.
ps Ask the therapist to encourage testing…they cannot answer you but you can communicate with the therapist…
4 Likes