<p>The vacation thing is a great idea. When we were young newlyweds and had nothing but debt, my parents offered to take us on vacation to the beach with the rest of the family. We accepted. Some 23 years later, we have vacationed with them and other parts of the family for most of those years. Of course we vacationed "alone" too, but the big group vacations were FUN, and it was a wonderful chance for low stress togetherness.</p>
<p>BHG -</p>
<p>I was the daughter who left home and never returned. In the 60s, I left CT for DC and college there; I was always very independent (and an only child). My dad wanted me to go to school close by, but my mom convinced him to let me follow my dreams. I returned home for the summer during my FR and SO years, but after that I lived at school. During college, I called and wrote very frequently. I missed my parents sure, but I loved my new life...and quite frankly didn't realize how much my parents missed me.</p>
<p>After graduation, at work, I met and married a man whose parents lived close by. Over the years, we saw much more of them than we did of my family, but I called home weekly for an hour or two. As our lives became more complicated, it seems I saw less and less of them, though we always spoke frequently...we all worked and no one was retired. When dad retired, they visited us fairly frequently...it was wonderful. Then in 1992, my dad died of Lou Gehrig's disease. I always wondered what it would have been like if I had seen more of my parents (dad especially). My mom moved to our community after dad died, but my husband's job forced us to move about two hours away. I felt tremendous guilt...still do...but we call just about every day and we visit each other often. She misses me a lot, but she is a very difficult personality and the distance is probably healthy for the time being.</p>
<p>My mother-in-law solved the proximity problem by always moving near her kids. Her rationale was that she had the time, means, and lack of job ties, so it just made sense to follow us. Though we didn't want to disrupt her life, it was nice that she didn't try to lay the guilt trip on us. We lost her last December. We loved her dearly.</p>
<p>I guess, weighing in, that you have to let your children live their own lives. You can let them know that by moving away there is a risk that you may have weaker ties, but you can't force it, because the kids will be more likely to break away because of the pressure. It's better to be loved from afar, than resented up close. When my son goes off to college, I know in my heart that it will be "goodbye". My son, my only child, is the light of my life, and I will miss him terribly. But I hope to be a supportive, upbeat, cool mom that continues to delight in all that he does...a mom who encourages him to reach for his goals...and who'll be there for him whenever he needs me, in whatever capacity he needs me. It's my job, my responsbility, to raise him up as a person who can separate from me with ease and feel empowered by the act. My wounds and sorrow are my problem. We raise our kids to let go. It is his lesson to learn to live without me; and my lesson to find meaning in my life without his constant presence. Oh, and I hope to someday buy a retirement home near the beach or a resort, so that it might make visits to see me with the wife and kids down the road a little more attractive. ;O)</p>
<p>Good luck, BHG. We all travel this road. You should be proud of yourself for raising an independent child. Try to show courage and belief in you child. It conveys such a strong message. If you've fumbled, then simply apologize and attribute your weakness to "love". And let your child know that just like college and life thereafter is a learning experience for them, being an empty nester is a new learning experience for you. You will both make mistakes; but you will both be fine. OB</p>
<p>We've said we'd pay for state school tuition only so that alone limits her to staying close unless she wants to take out huge loans.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster that talked about the break up of familes and our culture being somewhat to blame on our mobile society and the distance created. It would certainly be great to be an important part of our childrens & grandchildrens future. That is made SOOO much easier by being close and involved frequently.</p>
<p>Those that think you can maintain a relationship with phone calls & an annual holiday visit are like the father that travels all the time and only has some time on Saturday for the kids. There is NO substitute for regular, in-person involvement.</p>
<p>When I was in college one of my favorite books was "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran. At each time in my life I have found something useful. His writing on parents and children is very helpful to me as I send my daughter off to college.</p>
<p>[Your children are not your children. </p>
<p>They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.]</p>
<p>Here is a link to the full version:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.columbia.edu/%7Egm84/gibran4.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibran4.html</a></p>
<p>This is a very interesting thread. I have skimmed most of it and see it from the perspective of a mother and a daughter. The first thing that jumped to mind was that you are assuming all is wonderful for your daughter and she has cut you out. I wonder if that is true. I know that when I graduated from law school, I married, had a baby and started a new job all within a year. At the time I thought I was handling everything fabulously. Now, I know that I was doing the best I could to adjust to a lot but maybe wasn't handling it all that well - being married is work and an adjustment; being a new mother is also work and an adjustment and ditto for the job. I had nothing left to give to nurture relationships or make others feel good. I am sure that was hard for my mother and my MIL. What worked best for me - family just being there. My MIL was a master of making us NOT feel guilty. Her favorite motto - Christmas is a movable feast. The less she made me feel guilty (about everything from napping schedules, to working a full time job, etc.) the more I was drawn to her. She set up a nursery in her house and that made visitng effortless and we went often. My mother, who is much less introspective and a bit narcissistic, thought everything I did was about her. It was one more stress. I sensed she sometimes resented that my attention was on the kids and not on her. We now have a great relationship but it was strained. What I wish she did - realized the stress I was under and give unconditional love; offer to take the kids so we could get away; send me a gift certificate for a pedicure! and just acknowledge that I had a lot going on. All of that sounds like I am self centered and was not at all considering her feelings - and I wasn't. I was a young mom/lawyer/wife and completely consumed in my own life. Now, as a mom, I would be crushed to be cut out like that. But I hope that i will have the will power and strength to step back and be supportive without being demanding. I am not sure I will...but that is what I aspire to! </p>
<p>A few practical suggestions - take up yoga (seriously) and investigate a picture frame some of my sisters use for their inlaws. You can send digital pictures directly to the frame which keeps changing. Wonderful way to feel connected. </p>
<p>Good luck. I would not get in to the specifics of how you feel and why just yet. Give her time. It will burden her. As hard as it is, just listen and be there.</p>
<p>"she just wants us out(?)"</p>
<p>I would bet not. I would bet its just darn awkward right now but not irreparable. Both of you are sensitive to a now, suddenly, more awkward relationship because you are finely attuned to each other and are not seeing each other face to face very frequently. So maybe in your more recent conversations, you are anticipating in each other criticism, hurt, needs, guilt, whatever and reacting to that anticipated stress. I am not sure how the conversations go, but I can imagine a scene (maybe have been there myself as the daugher). Mom calls and Daughter thinks, "I hope Mom doesn't act like shes hurt again," braces for what she expects to her, and acts a little distant because of it. Maybe thinks, "I am too tired and working too hard at learning to be a mom myself right now to have the energy to deal with this right now." Or maybe she fears any kind of well meant support, Mom to new mom, smacks of criticism from a super mom, or interference with her idea of how to be a mom. Mom naturally picks up on the lack of easy exchange and feels her concerns are quite justified- "Here we go again - we are drifting farther and farther apart". </p>
<p>Certainly all that is compounded by the fact that she is living, to your eyes quite contentedly, with the inlaws. But that might be due to the fact that its just easier with the inlaws because she is not their daughter - they don't know her as well as you and might take the person she presents at face value whereas you know her every nuance and might be always looking beneath the surface. Things done or said that really bother my inlaws' own children flow right over me without impact - because there is no history, there is no second guessing, and I chalk them up to momentary irritability and shrug it off. With my own parents, I might react much more strongly to the same comment or incident. Weird and unfortunate how that goes.</p>
<p>I think as parents of young adult children, we have to decide - cool, I now have time to pursue more fully other things that really give my life pleasure. If we are excited and happy with my own pursuits, and share them with our daughters (I don't how this works with sons nor if its half so difficult), then they are freed up from pressure of thinking our happiness is sole derived from or dependent upon them. It almost feels like being a little selfish at first. But I imagine I have a lot of good years ahead and I need to reconnect to certain of those ambitions, pursuits, interests that I was drawn to and put aside once I became, first and foremost, Mom. And I have more time to devote to those new things that interest me. Its difficult to remember how to live life that way but I don't think its really superficial, even if it pales in comparison to the adventure and satisfaction of raising young children.</p>
<p>Your post sure speaks to an issue that resonates with a lot of us!</p>
<p>Just another thought...while there are still many families who do live in close proximity, there are also many who do not. My own mom (who died only two years ago) felt that she was the ONLY ONE who had a daughter who lived far away. This was simply not true. I know she would have liked to have us live closer, but to be honest, I spent more hours per year with her for the week I went to visit (24/7) than I would have if I had lived around the corner. She had a life (or she should have!!) and she was busy sometimes too. We tried and tried to convince her to move closer but she didn't until about 6 months before she died. The reality was that she was mobile (had few friends, no job, didn't own a home, etc) and we really weren't (owned a home, had jobs, etc). Once she moved she was happy that she had. Sadly she didn't really live long enough once she moved to enjoy it. There are more and more families who are spread from coast to coast than there were when we were little. Gosh, my parents, aunts, uncles...everyone, lived within a five minute drive where I grew up. My cousins now live all over the place....no one lives in our home town (no kidding...all have left). I know there are folks who feel this family "dispersion" is the downfall of our society. I feel it is simply a reality of our society. We can either accept and adapt to it, or whine about it. Like I said earlier, my own daughter will likely be going to college far away. It will give us vacation "excuses" (and yes, we can visit some of those cousins no matter where she goes). Her home here will be her home so long as we live in it, and we trust she will always feel that this is the case. Ditto my son....but for some reason folks don't seem to have the same sentiments about their sons. I know my son will never live here again, but that is part of his growing up...and spreading his wings just as his father and I did when we were younger.</p>
<p>TheMom says that sometimes I try to fix problems when I should just say, "Aw, there there." So...aw, there there.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, BHG. </p>
<p>I've cast the I Ching [mentally] and find there's an extremely high probability that my D will be employed on the East Coast. At least it will be in interesting places to visit, like D.C. or NYC.</p>
<p>Taxguy, Murphy is powerful: your D may just as well meet the Californian of her dreams at the school within an 8-hour drive. TheMom's family, originally from St. Louis, is spread across the country from NYC to Santa Monica, Seattle, and points in between. Exterior relationships and careers happen. Karma.</p>
<p>As an oldest daughter who will be leaving for college in a year, I can completely understand the concerns of parents here. My mother has also told me on numerous occasions that she wants me in-state and close to home. She is strongly advocating Penn for me, not because it might be the perfect school, but because it is only 30 minutes away from home and 15 minutes from the hospital where she works. Although I'm trying desperately to convince her to consider letting me go out of state to places like NY or DC, I can tell she doesn't feel comfortable with the idea. She's also brought up the idea of selling the house and possibly moving to the same place I go to college (AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!). Although I understand her concern as a mother, and love her deeply, her repeated efforts to make me want to stay home are starting to have the opposite effect. Although I love my family deeply and want to remain close to them, sometimes I just wish I could get away.</p>
<p>I know for a fact, though, that I could not bear living thousands of miles away from my family, and would never think of abandoning them or reducing contact, no matter the stage in my life. If only I could convince my mother of this..........</p>
<p>I think right now, your daughter is overwhelmed in all aspects of her life, but I have no doubt she will come around. With a new marriage, new town, and a baby, writing lengthy emails is probably her last concern. This absolutely does not mean that she values your contact less or that she is growing away from you. As soon as things calm down, she will be closer to you again and make more of an effort to be a part of your life, and vise-versa.</p>
<p>I REALLY appreciate these posts! This site is SO great. I mean, maybe at work you could confide to one or two people and get their perspective. Here, I can on a safe site (no way in creation would my daughter be interested in a college discussion forum) hear so many viewpoints and obtain GOOD advice too. I APPRECIATE this site!</p>
<p>Son in Law welds great power with Daughter. They don't HAVE to move in with the In Laws. They HAVE A HOUSE.They are moving in with the In Laws while their house is being sold and they are looking for a new place. Easily Son in law could live with his parents starting the new job whild Daughter packs up the house. But no, Son in Law wants his family with him every day he is on the new job even if it means he packs up and moves them himself in two weeks and leaves their unsold home empty.</p>
<p>I think, now this is just me, that the Mother In Law welds great power with the Son. This is what SHE wants.That's what I think is going on. No way in creation would I go for this if it were me. I'd say thanks but no thanks Hus, you go start the new job, I'll pack up this place and come up on weekends to house shop with you. And when this place is sold move. Who would WANT to go live with their In Laws unless they HAD to, and it is the Son in Law who is making this happen.</p>
<p>Of course, I'm keeping my trap shut. Not a word to the daughter.</p>
<p>You are very wise not to say anything about moving in with the inlaws.</p>
<p>Thedad, yes, Murphy is omnipresent. However, at least if she studies 'near' our home instead of across the continent, chances are that she will get a job closer to where we live. It is not certain by any means: but it does increase the possibility.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Who would WANT to go live with their In Laws unless they HAD to, and it is the Son in Law who is making this happen.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>If I were a young bride with a young child, I would NOT want to live alone in a house all week long if I had a choice. No...living with my inlaws wouldn't be my first choice...but if it meant being alone vs. being with my husband (and father of my little kidlet), I would go. It's temporary. My husband travelled out of town for a few days ONCE when my first child was young. It was awful having him not there....I can't imagine visiting my husband on weekends until my house sold.</p>
<p>I'm with Thumper1 - I would NOT want to be left on my own with the new baby, packing and trying to keep the house clean enough to show to prospective buyers. And I certainly wouldn't want to go someplace every week-end to house-hunt, carting baby gear back and forth. Better to live with the in-laws if they are at all tolerable.</p>
<p>Yes, of course!!!!lol
I'm out of it, the whole thing!
So, what I guess needs to be said is, it's very difficult adjusting to marriage .........egos.........personalities. Everyone is right, just listen to her whenever she calls , and send little goodies and always ........money.
And continue with all my volunteer work and job and other activities and develop new ones.And just hope that child #3 or #4 lives closer to home and has their families here and I see them more. And hope I'm still alive for that.
I'm over reacting to 1st grandchild. I think it will be my only one I'll see so I want more involvement. This is all MY problem.
So thanks everyone.</p>
<p>Try to accept this as a period of adjustment for your daughter...I'm sure it is hard for her too! Unless you know that they are struggling financially, I would discourage sending money... At holidays or birthdays & anniversaries maybe, but to send money seems to send a message that they can't do it without you (and you are still in the dominant parent mode)....Send gift cards, calling cards, etc, but I consider money a rather cold gift...Just my opinion...</p>
<p>I just can't imagine living with In Laws just to be near husband . I would look at it the other way, the separation is temporary. And I carted 4 kids all over creation (each pair 1 year apart) while my Husband worked ungodly hours so I guess it doesn't phase me so much.
Well, thanks for the input.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that child #3 and #4 are watching how you respond to this difficult time. They will file this information away mentally and will consider it someday when they are making family plans. Do not gossip to them about what your daughter says or does...Always keep conversations with them positive about your daughter. It's OK to tell them (occasionally) that you miss the grandchild, but don't expect them to understand...Try to pass on tidbits of good news from your daughter to them--maybe they will be more willing to pass tidbits back to you someday...</p>
<p>BHG:</p>
<p>Its not all your problem, but the choice of solutions is all yours!!</p>
<p>There are so many things that could be going on here and the people whove raised the controlling husband, etc., scenario are right to mention it, but assuming that she is in a normal (whatever that is!) relationship with a good guy and his good (though flawed as all in-laws are :P) parents, then you are the one who has to adjust and how well you tackle it will have long-term ramifications- a personal story:</p>
<p>Ive been married almost 25 years; my in-laws are exceptionally controlling and manipulative, though I did not realize that in the beginning. They could have played characters on All MY Children and stretched the believability factor! My MIL especially had some soap-opera style tendencies. My mom never complained and never told me the stories of the garbage this woman pulled, and she was outrageous- in that subtle b****y way that some women do so well. She was so cruel and cutting to my mom, who ignored it, saw it for what it was and didnt let it be important to her, and most critical-never told me about it. If my mom had told me the stories Ive heard the past few years, in my early days of marriage, I would have needed to confront the situation & try to fix it, which was impossible. Her silence was a true gift! When we finally brought up stories, years later, we both had incidents to tell, we both laughed and my respect for my moms wisdom increased exponentially. The in-laws were not abusive or anything scary like that, but they are extremely narcissistic- everything, absolutely everything that any one does must be about them, because of them, etc. It gets old and it is sad.</p>
<p>It is a real, what goes around, comes around story- my kids adore my parents and love to spend time with them and write then notes and emails and call them- my husband and I love to be with my parents, too. We have my parents stay for 3-4 weeks at a time and miss them when they leave. His folks come for 3-5 days, and that is plenty.</p>
<p>The interesting thing is that his folks believe we have a great relationship- we email, we chat, we visit, we stay in touch and are respectful of their pleasure in knowing about the kids, but they expect so much, nothing is ever enough, never enough time spent on them, never enough attention, when we visit- if we see other friends or family, it is taking away from their time nothing we ever do is enough, so we do what we need to do, but we dont feel a joyous spirit about visits and phone calls. It is sad, they want so much and expect so much and that very desire is part of what makes it tough to give- because you always feel like you are doing your duty, one simply does not get the chance to surprise them with something good, they already expected it! They want to be good grandparents and are always doing interesting fun things, but their attitudes about life hinder the enjoyability factor.</p>
<p>My parents have no stated expectations and we yak all the time, email all the time, etc. Not out of duty, but because we want to.</p>
<p>As a D, I suggest you endeavor to NOT demand, but rather have an easy spirit and look on this as your time to give energy to your daughter- most likely it will come back to you later and she will appreciate your welcome presence in her life. No matter how great the in-laws are, it is an adjustment to live with them and an adjustment to being a wife and to being a mom, so she needs you to be her strong anchor, the shoulder to lean on & cry on. If you can be her sounding board- reflecting back her thoughts and pointing out pros & cons of issues, but NOT giving her your solution, you could be a real godsend for her.</p>
<p>My oldest D is in university and is very very independent. She really is still in stage of only thinking about herself and not giving much energy to her family- shed do anything for a friend, but cannot be troubled to call her siblings, but we are trying to be patient, never judge, never make her feel the grumpy feelings that my in-laws inspire in us! I wish I could shape her up a bit, tell her what to do and have her do it, but all I can do is always be here to talk to, always be a sage sounding board, always offer some one to turn to when life is confusing and hope that it works. It seems to be working, over time, she now calls when things are in a crisis and when she needs little silly info- maybe I am too "easy," but I'll take any contact and am glad to see her feel confortable calling on me for the major things and the tiny things.</p>
<p>You want to remind your daughter of proper polite behavior, like returning phone calls in a hurricane, but you cant do that and not risk her ire. She is an adult and she will make some mistakes and she is young to be married and a mom, so she is still maturing and learning how to juggle it all!</p>
<p>The best gift you can give your daughter is the freedom of lowering your expectations and then simultaneously offer her support- as others have said, card, emails, little silly care packages, pampering gifts (pedicure, massage, etc) anything to cause all of their thoughts of you to be associated with warm & fuzzy things that make them smile and not a feeling of inadequacy. She is juggling life and marriage and baby and moving and she is only 23, she needs the grown-ups in her life to cut her some slack- even if she should be capable of better. I tell myself that about my D and I just keep being there .yes, I get cranky sometimes, but almost never (nobodys perfect) towards her!</p>
<p>Be the grown-up, be patient, be supportive, offer good things, make all your contacts good ones, shell come back to you.</p>
<p>Dont be jealous of the MIL living with her, somehow I do not think that will lead to incredible closeness!!!</p>