<p>And about the money comments. This D has cost us quite a bundle this past year. First there was her surprise marriage. As she ran away and got married that cost us nothing but we gave them a hefty wedding present of cash for their future. And some heirloom silver in my family, and we bought them wedding china for Christmas.We gave them a wedding reception at Christmastime.Then the baby announcement came in Feb. and there was a big baby shower . Then the baby came and about $1000 in gifts, things she wanted for the nursery. So, I am feeling a little cynical about money.Maybe my money comments are meant sarcastically but they aren't really directed at Daughter or anyone in particular. It's just the fact, a family, all children, are expensive.And it gets depressing.</p>
<p>My belief is we brought our children into the world so we owe them, but they do not owe us. All we can hope is that want be be around us, and that in large part will be determined by our actions. You can, however, be the world's best parent and still have kids with other thoughts. So be it. Be happy in your own life.</p>
<p>I don't know why they ran away and got married. She wasn't pregnant then.She said, it was 'something they wanted to do.' And I suspect, as she is #2 of 4 kids, she wanted to not have a big wedding and get us or herself in debt. I think at one point I said well you can have the wedding or have the cash. And I think they decided they wanted the wedding present.Anyway, it was a very nice wedding in a canyon. Both me and the mother in law were stunned. But so be it. I had no fits about it.</p>
<p>ummm BHG all those money choices were your choices to make
Even if your daughter asked you for them it was your choice as an adult to another adult to give or not.
Everybody needs to take responsibilty for their own decisions.</p>
<p>I am wondering if like with some relatives I know- gifts- particulary gifts of money come with "strings" attached.
A gift should be a gift.
If you give money- you don't get to decide what it is spent on.
If you want to give them stock then give them stock, don't give them money and tell them to buy stock for example.
If you give them a hideous china clock that was in your family for generations and you expect them to pass it on, tell them that before they accept it so they ahve the option to decline. Once you give someone something- you don't get to decide what they do with it forever more.
Hopefully they will either keep the hideous clock and drag it out for you to see or give it to somebody who really likes it, but I am a big beleiver of giving should be a gift- not an obligation</p>
<p>I'm hearing a lot of grief here. Perhaps a professional will be more helpful than random comments.</p>
<p>Lol, Suze! ;) Relax. This is a friendly forum. I'm not sure what you got out of my post, or if you even read all of it, but Somemom said it best:<br>
[quote]
We are trying to encourage BHG to not fear letting go and giving her daughter space, no guaratees they'll reconnect, but it is highly likley!!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LOL Yes, this c.c.is a fun, supportive place!
Oh Zagat. You are absolutely right. WE the parents have the obligation. It's just..we the parents get hurt sometimes. And it just STARTS when the grandchildren are born.And the women are more suceptible to it. They have more invested in nuturing the family.( I know I'll catch heat for that statement.)
I was just explaining any money comments by me.Kids are expensive.That's the facts. No strings attached here. A wedding present is a wedding present, arrivadercchi. The silver is beautiful and very old. They can sell it on ebay if they want! (But they have to wait until I die to get anything which personally belongs to me!) </p>
<p>Maybe this whole thread is about...oh my Goodness, I have become my mother!</p>
<p>BHG:
If that was me, I was not trying to call you clingy! Just a normal mom who has a safe place to express frustrations (here) and learn from others' experiences! </p>
<p>There is a certain amount of natural give and take, and sometimes it is unnatural, or influenced by outside events. I do not have the gift of writing so cleverly and accurately as so many of the posters and was not implying criticism. I was trying to assist Suze in understanding where we are all coming from. Your issue is basically normal, but the fact that it is abberant behavior for your D makes it that much tougher to swallow. You were probably ready for a seperation when she went away to school, but did not expect to see her move in with the inlaws and effectively cut you off from much substantive communication now.</p>
<p>I don't know what's going on or when it will change but I do think that not forcing it is the wisest choice. Wait and be there for her, but demand nothing, allow her ot come back on her own terms. I hope it happens sooner rather than later for you</p>
<p>Suze, so many teenagers complain about their parents. One of my kids told lots of friends she hated her mom :( and few months later she called me all the time. At the same time, my other kids have never said that and expressed concern at their friend's mom-hate relationships. Some friends have disliked their moms for years and it seesm to be a real feeling, others briefly blame all their frustration on a safe person, mom, and a short time later, all is well again. It is difficult to tell when there is a long-term issue vs. short-term frustration. Your mom is very lucky to have such a wonderful relationship with you, I am sure she treasures it.</p>
<p>We've really gotta bring back tthe coward's award thread. As today's recipient would be Mr. B who wrote:</p>
<p>At 7, we are a god to our kids at 17 we become the village idiot and at 27, if we are lucky, we regain a higher status of parent.</p>
<p>Suze, we understand at this stage of you life you are probably thinking about us as the village idots who need to get a grip, a life and a variety of other things. So I'll tell you what my mother used to tell me, live on a few more days.</p>
<p>But please remember all of us who are now mothers beleive it or not at one time or another we were daughter (yeah, been there done that). In the end we know that this too will pass. They say the same thing about having gas but it's still no fun waiting for it to pass.</p>
<p>Sybbie, I shared this thread with my very realistic mother. In her opinion, many mothers just haven't gotten it that we now live in a global world and that the chance a smart, empowered daughter is going to come back to the nest is a far cry from what it was a generation ago. Sorry for my honesty, but I see a lot of moms here who live through their children and are bound to be bitter which really is the only way I can describe backhandgrip's posts. "I gave (time, money, whatever) she owes me" Can you really defend that?</p>
<p>Do you think your daughter owes it to you to come back home? I've followed your posts on the Dartmouth board. What if your daughter falls in love with some from the opposit side of the Country? What if she wants grad school in Europe? Are you not expecting this of a Dartmouth girl?</p>
<p>My D and I have grown a lot since she went off to college as just a year ago I was the one crying saying I left my baby with those people. </p>
<p>My daughter already knows that I support whatever she wants to do. As her mother all I can give her is roots and wings. My daughter owes it to her self to be happy and live the best life possible.Hey I just hope she moves someplace where there is great weather because I like going on vacation. I love her enough to let her chart her own path wherever it leads her. If it doesn't work out she knows that there will always be an airline ticket waiting.</p>
<p>"many mothers just haven't gotten it that we now live in a global world and that the chance a smart, empowered daughter is going to come back to the nest is a far cry from what it was a generation ago."</p>
<p>well, let's see how this works:</p>
<p>family v career = career.</p>
<p>Seems it's not even a tough choice.
.wonder what the next generation will offer families?</p>
<p>Im sure it will be equally big and impressive; bet you cant wait to find out.</p>
<p>Roots and wings, the best gifts.</p>
<p>LOL I intended to go to college far away and make my own life. Quite frankly if you force your children to go in region when they don't want to they will find ways to get out. You cannot stop their will. Not to sound mean, and to be fair I am more of an independent person then most, but thats how I feel. It isn't bad to want kids close for sure, but forcing them to be against their will would be far worse imo.</p>
<p>BHG, it sounds to me like your daughter is still very immature, still in an adolescent rebellion stage where she wants to do things on her own, but now she has landed herself right in the middle of a lot of responsibility that she probably was not emotionally ready for. Running away to get married, and now she's got to live with her husband, live with the in-laws, and a new baby. If they are already selling their first house & moving into another, it sounds like the husband is somewhat older, to be so well-established financially. </p>
<p>If so, I think she will come around in time - she's just in the midst of trying to adjust to a whole new life. She may be avoiding you because it is emotionally upsetting for her to talk to you - not because of what you are saying, but because there's still part of her that is a little girl who wishes she could come running home, but of course she knows that she cannot do that and must maintain her new grownup role as wife & mother. </p>
<p>I know that my relationship with my son improved a lot after he was working and supporting himself, living on his own for awhile. He just grew up, started to see himself as an independent adult - but at the same time started to really appreciate what his parents lives and responsibilities were like. </p>
<p>I know it is so hard emotionally when there is a grand child involved, but please remember that this is just the beginning: this child will grow and be around for many years. Truthfully, as much as you would like to cuddle the baby, this is the least important time in terms of the baby developing a relationship with you. It is those years ages 3 & up that the child will actually know who you are and that you will have more meaningful interaction -- and even grandchildren who live far away usually come to visit grandparents from time to time. So as frustrating as it is right now, I think that in the end you will probably have plenty of time to get to know this grandchild and the other grandchildren you are sure to have.</p>
<p>Thank Goodness for your post.
Fact is, we can't afford to visit them any more this year.</p>
<p>Thank Goodness for your post.
Fact is, we can't afford to visit them any more this year. In fact, with #3 child going to college this Fall and #4 next Fall, we can't afford to go visit the next entire year. However, if I am still alive in 07 we are planning to take an entire month off to visit and rent a place in their area. If we can just hang on the next 1 1/2 yrs we may get through the double tuitions.The baby at that point will be 1 1/2.
I was pretty upset when making the original post. They had just called us and husband was absolutely giddy son in law had found a new job in his field. He was having difficulty, at least 6 months. At issue was really if D could stay home with the baby.So, all is great but I felt hurt. Like here I was upset they call so infrequently and now, here they go off to live with the in laws.
I gotta put this thread to rest. I won't be on c.c. after tonight for a while, am just too busy. But did very much enjoy the connection here. What an incredibly bright group! What a pleasure!</p>
<p>Woodwork; just wanted to say, it is immigration which fuels the future of our country. If it were not for the immigration, we would be in the same position, I dare say, of most European countries with NEGATIVE birth rate.A very dire situation for most of Europe.They say, unless Europeans start having babies like their g grandparents, the situation of negative birthrate will not change. (Death of the West) And womens careers do fuel this change in the birth rate.And where is there a POSITIVE birthrate? Apparently, the Muslim world still places great value on large families. I read somewhere the birthrate of Israel is something like 1.9 babies per woman but among the Palestine women, get this, it is 6.4.Just looking at the figures,we all know where this is heading.</p>
<p>I admit I haven't read through this entire thread, so it might have been already mentioned, but I've found the Internet works best for contact. I have a friend who was in a similar situation, new baby and all. Calls were perhaps once a week, but seeing the child was sporadic at best. For the price of less than a visit, he bought his kid an Apple iBook and an iSight camera, about $1200 altogether (he had one). Now he sees the baby and the family in real time on an almost daily basis. And since one can talk as well as see, it works out great. the best thing is, one just plugs in the camera and it all works. I use it to keep in touch with my family when traveling. No long distance charges, and I can show them what the hotel looks like and the view from the window!</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is what is the outcome of the call. Is there chastisement for infrequent calling, or an upbeat response with positive comments and a real interest in what is happening "there?"</p>
<p>Backhand:</p>
<p>I don't think you're clingy - I think you have normal feelings.</p>
<p>But, here's something that might help: As I mentioned, I moved 3500 miles away from my parents after I was married. My in-laws have always lived 35 MINUTES away from us.</p>
<p>Yet, when my kids reminise about childhood times with grandparents, it is NOT my in-laws they talk about: it is, instead, MY parents. Even more ironic is the fact that my father died when my youngest was just five and my mother died when my youngest was 9. My in-laws are still alive.</p>
<p>My in-laws were close by physically, but that didn't mean they were involved in the hallmark card version of grandparenting. In fact, perhaps because they were close by, they really didn't do much in terms of spending time alone with my kids when they were little. They never created the type of memories that my parents did, even though my parents usually only saw the kids once a year at most and sometimes not even that.</p>
<p>My parents always made their visits special - they crammed so much into their time with the kids. It wasn't so much what they did when they and the kids were together, it was the way they spent time with the kids - they focused 100% of their attention on getting to know them, on listening, on making connections. And, when they weren't here, they found amazing ways to connect with the kids --- my dad taped himself reading childrens books and then would send the tape and the books to my kids, my mom was always writing little notes to the kids - when they were too young to read, she decorated those notes with pictures. My daughter still has her notes from her grandmother tucked away in her room and my son STILL talks from time to time about his Pop, who always gave him tootsie pops, even though he is now 15.</p>
<p>So, while it may be more ideal to be physically close, that type of proximity doesn't always translate into more love, more affection, or more memories. I suspect you will be a wonderful, caring grandma - the type that your grandchildren will have many special memories of, even if you are not within driving distance.</p>