DS will only consider one college!

<p>Sounds like the OP is getting great advice from everyone. I just want to chime in that I was on this forum two years ago asking for recommendations for nearby universities for my junior son as I didn’t think he would want to go to school far from home. As a junior he was not interested in thinking about college at all so I felt I had to take the initiative and search for him. As a senior, he was much more interested although he had only one famous STEM school on his mind (which is a plane ride away). I MADE him apply to several schools as a backup, including UMN, in case he didn’t get in. He didn’t so I was glad he had choices. He ended up at a school a 12 hour drive away, something a year earlier I would never have thought possible. Time may make a difference for your son too. However, if he chooses to go to UMN he will be at an excellent school with his intellectual peers (I believe the average CSE student has a 32 or 33 ACT) and at a wonderful price. With his possible NMF status, he should get the $10,000 Gold Scholarship, and probably others too (my son was offered a total of $17,000 p/year).</p>

<p>Thank you ucbalumnus & bdintonk for all the info about PhD programs and UG credits. It’s sort of funny that I’m trying to get the kid to look at collegeS and get his apps done this summer and now I’m already discussing grad school! I think DS will end up doing something w/ math somehow since he enjoys it and it comes easily to him, but who knows what it will end up being. First I gotta get the kid thru HS and into a decent UG program. He’s my first and only one going to college, and HS has gone by so quickly, so I don’t have my act together too well and have much to learn. My other son is autistic and will not likely end up going to college in a regular way unless something drastically changes. Thanks everyone for the ideas and information. This site and the ppl on it offer such a wealth of info.</p>

<p>At UMD, one cannot pursue a graduate degree via an undergrad merit scholarship. OTOH, they are fabulous about letting folks take graduate courses early; we know folks who completed much of their UG degree using grad courses.</p>

<p>Thanks CountingDown. That he could take higher level courses if he wishes to/is ready to is great to know. I would assume that the campuses have similar rules (or maybe I’m naive!)? UMN has much to offer - I just hope that if DS ends up going there it is b/c he finds it to be the best fit for him after considering his options. Admittedly, I can not think of a negative for DS enrolling at UMN and I think it is likely a good fit. I just want to make sure we are doing due diligence checking to make sure it is best fit.</p>

<p>Here’s an idea (if finances permit). Propose a spring break trip someplace that is interesting to visit and has a school or two that you think might interest him. Keep it low key, admit you are just doing due diligence to show other options. Then spend most of the time just enjoying a family vacation together. </p>

<p>For DS’s junior spring break, we went to CA. Three days in San Diego. Then 3 days near LA (Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Pomona). Mudd was his gold standard of colleges for much of the next year. He was accepted but ended up elsewhere. Still it was a key datapoint in our college selection journey. Memories of DH and I having fun times him (away from distractions of friends and IB homework) in San Diego and Pasadena - priceless.</p>

<p>If your son is that advanced he’s taking Calc3 as a sophomore in high school, he should definitely look at Harvey Mudd and CalTech, plus Northwestern for their accelerated math track. The trip to California that Colorado_mom suggested sounds perfect. Even if he’s not interested in other colleges, he’ll know of other options, and California weather may seem attractive after 17 years in Minnesota (no matter how much he loves snow, cool-crisp weather, winter blue skies, and summer mosquitoes :p)
In addition, he’s likely to continue his math at least to a certain point, so knowledge of French and Russian would come in handy. I don’t know whether he’d be able to handle learning both, but if he had to choose 1° French is easier (about 40% words are similar, less conjugation than in Spanish, although the grammar is tricky, you have to think in a “systemic” way about words as grammatical categories) plus you can easily find material that combines French and math. He might have fun with (easy math for him so mostly for French language purpose :p) <a href=“https://fr.khanacademy.org/[/url]”>https://fr.khanacademy.org/&lt;/a&gt; If he’s not taken French yet, the U should have classes that will be greatly accelerated compared to the HS pace, ie, 2 years compressed into 1 semestre is the rule in college. If he’s dedicated, he can achieve a working knowledge by the time he “starts” college. 2° Russian is more time-intensive and is pretty intense, so it may be a good idea to start earlier or at a high-school pace.
If he’s not sure he wants to do math but might continue with math and wants to keep doors open: There are Russian flagship programs, too, dedicated to training students so that they become more proficient than a major would be, making it possible to major in something and do the program, plus flagship + math = his math skills (and potential French) would make him very, very, very valuable to the agencies that recruit there. Due to his advanced math skills, if attending the Haverford flagship, he’d need to take his math classes at UPenn. I don’t know about the UCLA financial situation (although I have an inkling they may have funds for the Russian flagship students, especially those with math skills) and of course U Wisconsin has reciprocity agreements with MN.
[Russian</a> Flagship Programs](<a href=“http://flagship.americancouncils.org/russian/]Russian”>http://flagship.americancouncils.org/russian/)</p>

<p>OP, one other thought based on your plan. Be sure he applies fairly early where possible, I think some of his schools will be rolling admission schools (or get into the EA pool if they have it). If you plan to do a few visits after getting acceptances, it is easier if you have a longer time period between the acceptance and May 1 when he has to make a final decision. So be sure he gets going early in the fall on applications, recommendation letters, etc.</p>

<p>I will say, we live in MN too, and my D2 is at Harvey Mudd and loves the weather there. She just got home last night, and is under a comforter with some hot cocoa right now. :slight_smile: She was also NMSF and is plenty challenged there. Just in case he decides to look further afield and at options besides the big universities.</p>

<p>University of Minnesota - Twin Cities does offer French, German, and Russian language courses. Note that the math PhD program language requirements are not typically general fluency and literacy; they test the student for being able to read and understand math papers and articles in French, German, or Russian.</p>

<p>@UCB: yes, general fluency is unnecessary, but it really helps if you have a sense of the language before you attempt to pass the reading courses for professional purposes. In addition, it’s more fun, in my opinion. It has more practical utility, too: if OP’s son were to give a paper in Paris or in Montreal, or in Moscow or St Petersburg, he’d be able to actually know what’s going around him. And, as I said, there’s a definite career path that’s wide open for someone who does flagship (any critical language offered) + math. But my main point would be that it’s more fun to actually know the language and culture in addition to “just” the reading-for-professional-purpose.</p>

<p>Back on topic: I hope OP keeps us updated as to whether DS changes his mind, whether they take road trips, etc. :slight_smile: I’m sure this thread would be interesting to many parents!</p>

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<p>While true for a student who is adept at learning a language, it may be more difficult time-wise to fit more than one of them into a schedule. Of course, a math student wanting to learn more languages could try to learn one to full fluency and literacy, while learning the others at least well enough to read math papers in it.</p>

<p>Also, Russian language instruction exists at many schools which are not listed at [Domestic</a> (Stateside) Programs | Russian Flagship Programs](<a href=“http://flagship.americancouncils.org/russian/?q=content/domestic-stateside-programs]Domestic”>http://flagship.americancouncils.org/russian/?q=content/domestic-stateside-programs) , so one does not have to limit one’s choice of schools that much to learn Russian. French and German language instruction should be widely available.</p>

<p>BTDT. I had the same problem with my daughter. She only liked one school and would not give any serious thought to others. In the end, I let her apply ED. Once she was rejected, she has started working seriously on other applications. But it took that rejection to get her working.</p>

<p>Because I knew we would have very little time, I had a short list for her to work from when the rejection came in. This way, we did not have to start from square one. Also, try forcing him to go visit some schools over the summer. Do not make it optional. He may hate them, but later, when/if he gets rejected, he at least knows of some other schools. </p>

<p>Good luck! And hopefully, he will just get in to his first choice.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the helpful info! I would be stunned if DS didn’t get into UMN TC, but I guess you never really know until you get the happy or sad letter from the school. I do think that if he didn’t get into the Honors program he would be hurt enough to consider other places. I sort of think he would get into the honors program b/c his stats are very good and at least some of the math dept know him and seem to like him - but again you never know. That’s the only thing I can think of that would make him (at this point anyway) seriously consider other places.</p>

<p>I’m going to see if he would start another language next year even. He really likes Spanish and it comes quite easily to him. French would obviously be easier since he has taken Spanish. I tried to get him to take one of the “math languages” freshman year, but he begged and whined that he just wanted to take stuff that “everyone else is taking” and I relented. </p>

<p>I really like Harvey Mudd and thought it would be a great option for him. DS was even interested in it at first, but he got teased a lot in 5th grade about being a “nerd” and he can’t seem to shake it off completely to this day. He though Mudders seemed to relish their nerdom too much (based on some postings he read on CC) and he says he doesn’t want to be surrounded by ppl who relish their nerdom. It’s sort of sad that he feels this way IMO. I was sort of charmed by the Mudders (“that’s b/c you like nerds mom”)</p>

<p>Anyway, he’s a bit better now, but still has the residual hangup about “being too nerdy”. Sometimes, it has made me regret sending him to the local public school. They offer a lot of AP classes (more than any private in the area) but most of the kids have a different mindset about post-secondary plans. I underestimated the “trying to fit in” factor that most kids have. Even the profs at the U have noted that DS is a kid who prefers to fly “under the radar” not speaking up just to show off that he knows something etc.(my DS thought it was a great compliment).</p>

<p>I think the Spring Break trip is a great idea. I don’t know if I can get DS to go along w/ it because I did try to sell it to him before - a chance to get a freebie vacation out of it and just stop by some schools along the way. I’ll try again to see if I can persuade him. The way the winter is shaping up this year, maybe he will be ready to get out of the tundra by spring. I’m ready now! </p>

<p>Would you try to set up interviews for the schools we would visit (if DS can be persuaded)? I don’t know if that would end up making my DS wig out, but it seems silly to travel all the way there and not talk to the ppl or interview if the school prefers an interview.</p>

<p>I did already discuss w/ DS that he needs to apply early to his beloved school - and some others too (before school starts in Fall since it sounds like it is possible to apply to many of them in August) so that he would have an idea where he sits hopefully sooner than later into Sr yr and can relax and enjoy the rest of HS. He also agreed to visit the schools that he got into if they offered anything similar to what the UMN offers. So at the very least I got him to agree to apply to a few other places and visit if he gets in. I had to promise in exchange to stop “nagging” him to just look through college books - heh heh.</p>

<p>I wonder if this “apply and go” is predominantly a “boy” thing? That’s how they design dept stores (walk in, there’s the mens’ dept right by the entrance, grab your stuff, pay, leave). My nephew was also somewhat adverse to planning where he wanted to go and did so as much to get his mom off his back as out of his own interest. It seems like the girls I know plan a lot more and actually look at materials and think about their options more (my niece had her major and #1 school planned out in 8th grade!). Or maybe it just happens to be the small set of kids I know. For my DS, I think it is partly comfort factor (known entity), and partly that the U’s application process is straight forward (and easy) because it’s so stats driven. He hates the idea of asking for recommendations (which U doesn’t require) - “it’s like pressuring someone to praise you in writing - how embarrassing”).</p>

<p>We have Rosetta Stone (full set) so maybe I’ll bribe him to start looking at languages on there this summer. He’s too busy during school year to do it.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all the great ideas. I’ll be sure to post back to let ppl know what we discovered and what (if anything) worked to get at least one reluctant kid to broaden consideration of options.</p>

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<p>It may fall on deaf ears, but tell him it is literally part of a high school teacher’s job description to write recommendation letters for their students. They do it for tons of students every year, they are used to it and don’t see it as a problem (but how Minnesotan of him to be embarrassed to ask :D). And he will likely need to ask for recommendations in the future for grad school or ask people to ask as references for jobs, so it is a request he needs to get used to making anyway. Also, you might point out that he is pretty easy to write a letter about given his good stats and activities – they get plenty of requests for students who are more challenging to show in a good light in a recommendation.</p>

<p>Mudders DO embrace their nerdiness. As I mentioned above, it was the one “parent choice” school I asked D2 to keep on her list, and told her if she got in she should attend accepted student days. If she chose someplace else after that, we didn’t ever need to talk about it again. She applied, figuring she would not get in. Then got accepted, and realized after accepted student visits that it was a great fit for her and now happily attends. She had to come to that decision on her own – thankfully she was willing to accept the one ‘parent choice’ school on her list. But that may not work or be an appropriate idea for you, just saying it was for us.</p>

<p>"Would you try to set up interviews for the schools we would visit (if DS can be persuaded)? " </p>

<p>When we visited Mudd in April of Junior year, we arranged an informational family interview. Then in the fall the were opportunities to do an interview with Mudd rep in Denver. At Mudd, Cal Tech, and Pomona we did group info sessions and tours… and perhaps info interviews at all (just can’t recall).</p>

<p>I really like Harvey Mudd so it’s really nice to hear how your D ended up looking at Harvey Mudd and now enjoys going there. Maybe there’s hope for my S!</p>

<p>I’ve noticed even when I was a kid as well as now that kids seem to come more into their own and not be as uptight about fitting in and cliques etc as they get beyond Soph year. I have to think that my son would like being among like minds where he wouldn’t have to feel uptight all the time about “just being regular”. </p>

<p>His desperation to blend in has lessened over the years, but he still has that element. What I think he doesn’t understand since he has been in this school system so long is that it is just one microcosm. The same people who so effortlessly fit in at his school wouldn’t fit in at other places like Harvey Mudd while DS may just find a better fit for himself.</p>

<p>Admittedly I waver a bit because I think DS may feel himself that he is not ready to make a big jump out of state and so UMN would be like a 1/2 step - away from parent and sort of on his own, but not everything is new at once. I don’t want to push him if he isn’t ready and have it blow up on him in college.</p>

<p>So I’m torn - I think he may find this wonderful experience of feeling a great fit among like minds at a place like Harvey Mudd and I hate to see him miss that option, but his reluctance to look too far away from home may also be his understanding of his own readiness to make a big jump to a new environment and culture while living away from home for the first time. </p>

<p>And yes, DS definitely has some of those good old MN qualities for better or worse. It’s sort of funny that he gravitates toward non-natives though and he loves older people “because they just say what they think and don’t care”. He’s by far the most “minnesotan” of any of his friend group - the others almost scream “I’m not from here!” If he insists on only UMN I hope at least he gets into the Honors program because it seems to attract a lot of out of state kids so he will be around a more non-MN mix of kids and may find he really likes it.</p>

<p>I’m sorry that I can’t PM or reply to PMs b/c I don’t have enough posts. But thank you to everyone who has taken the time to PM me with info. I appreciate it.</p>

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<p>In my (limited) experience, yes. </p>

<p>And it seems to work out as well for them as the “talking about every aspect of the situation from every possible angle” approach does for girls. Go figure.</p>

<p>I’ve only read the last couple of pages so I might be missing some context. For me, somewhat nerdy in high school compared to the cool kids but not a full blown nerd like, well, the nerds one the great things about college visits was seeing schools where it seemed like I would fit in and my cohort group would be more similar to me than my high school classmates.</p>

<p>How about schools with STEM focus that are closer to home to visit to see what your son thinks … Michigan Tech, Purdue, Rose Holman, etc.</p>

<p>Personally, I found I didn’t like tech schools … a little too nerdy for me … but I did like highly selective schools where there was a higher concentration of really smart kids … and where being smart was a good thing. For example, Chicago or Northwestern maybe.</p>

<p>3togo - that’s what I was thinking too and you sound like my son. He doesn’t scream “nerd” if you just saw him or talked to him. I like “full blown nerd”. I call my DS a “secret nerd” and he started using the term about other kids he knows like that too.</p>

<p>I thought if he could get into CSE honors program at the UMN (his only school of interest), things may be OK in the dept of feeling more like he is surrounded by smart kids. The honors program is pretty selective (I think avg ACT is >34 and avg SAT M+CR >1500. So from that perspective at least I would think he would be around other smart kids IF he got into the honors prog.</p>

<p>But I agree w/ the idea of looking at schools where there are plenty of smart kids around. It’s sort of why I started this thread - my S only wants to look at the UMN CSE honors program and I want to make sure that he isn’t missing an opportunity to really see what it feels like to go to school in a good fit atmosphere. CSE may well be that, but you never know if there is a better one out there. His HS is definitely not a good fit in the sorta nerdy dept - similar to what sounds like your experience - Ok but not great.</p>

<p>If he wants to major in math or similar subject (e.g. physics, CS, statistics) at UMN-TC, then there should be plenty of “nerdy” smart people around.</p>