<p>And on the parents doing the grade schoolers home work and science projects, when my children were in grade school, the school always sent home work for the kids, but they were things the parents were expected to do. I actually addressed it with the school and they said they liked to give families things to do together. I, personally, resented that they barged in on my family time with huge ridiculous assignments and taught not children that they are unable to handle things on their own. It is kind of hard to transition your children in to being independent, when the schools throw this at you.</p>
<p>I’m with sally on this. I have never understood why a university would want to bring high school students into their labs to do “advanced” research when they have a responsibility to give opportunities to their own undergrad and grad students–people who will, in most cases, have better academic preparation for doing that work. Therefore, one suspects that when this is done, it’s as a favor to professor’s kids or children connected to corporate donors.</p>
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<p>I don’t know about other places, but it’s certainly not the case in NYC. I’ve interviewed (as an alumna for my college) kids who were dirt poor but did research. Sometimes this is because the school has a science research class which helps them set up places to work.</p>
<p>Years ago, there was an article in my community newspaper about a family with 3 sons–all of whom were top 10 in Intel. The dad had been a physician in another country. He did not think his sons could get a good education there due to political conditions. So, they all came to the US; none spoke any English. He got a job as a janitor in a hospital, learned English, and eventually was able to get a job as an X-ray technician at a public medical facility in my community. All 3 sons went to NYC public schools, learned English, and got into specialized public high schools. All 3 were top 10 in Intel. The dad said it made giving up his profession and moving to America worth it. </p>
<p>I also remember the girl from West Virginia who was dirt poor. She became fascinated by stars, built her own telescope, discovered something in space–I can’t recall exactly what–and also got top ten Intel.</p>
<p>I do think there are high schools that facilitate science research and if you attend one, you have an advantage. However, some of the schools that do this have lots of students who are not at all “connected.”</p>
<p>I never heard a parent sitting in on an interview is expected and never read a report that mentioned parents. But, who knows? </p>
<p>Sally, many of the kids do have parent connections. Sometimes, it’s obvious (like, mom heads the neuro lab and kiddo had not one, but two years there.) We see that. But, for any kid, the point can be that he got himself into the environment, did more than “start a club.” It doesn’t matter if he washed test tubes or sat at the copier. And, some kids actually do significant lab work- sometimes, there is a program to bring in local kids, sometimes the hs facilitates the connections. It does happen. Are they all privileged? No.</p>
<p>You’d be amazed at what even some dirt poor kids take on. someone suggests something or a mentor group helps. It doesn’t matter if it’s Intel recognized. Kids with energy and vision do these things. Someone was right, though. It does mess up things for the next kid, who may not have the ideas.</p>
<p>Yeah, some x-post.</p>
<p>@lmkh70: I’ve NEVER heard of the idea of having the parents come in as part of or appended to a student’s interview for college admissions as being a requirement, implied or otherwise.</p>
<p>Especially for a top ten school that would be savvy about casting a wide net and focused on not putting off kids from non-traditional backgrounds. Can you please cite your examples?</p>
<p>(I interview for one of the supposed “top 10” colleges. Whenever I set up interviews, I let the students know that if a parent has any questions or would like to meet me afterward, that I’m fully available – but certainly have never intimated that I required seeing them. That’d be insane)</p>
<p>Walk this through with me. I had two elite-school level kids go through our local high school, taking the most advanced classes possible there. At this good suburban high school, the only science-related activities were the quiz teams/Olympiads and even they were sketchy, though I understand other schools have better. Anyway, suppose my kid gets interested in a particular topic, and starts reading up on it on his own. He would like to take a class that relates to his interest at the local U, but finds you can’t just walk in off the street and sign up for an upper level course. He would have to be enrolled in a major track, and would need lower level pre-req. classes he does not have. But despite his greenness, suppose further he gets an idea for a research project. This assumes that this young kid can, after reading journal articles etc., actually produce an idea of any worth.</p>
<p>Please explain how the rest happens. How does he acquire university lab time, access to their expensive, specialized equipment, access to (possibly restricted) supplies (you can’t just walk into Walmart and buy liquid nitrogen), etc.? Don’t PhD’s with post docs and years of experience have to work their butts off getting grant funding to do this very thing? And when they do, they must provide the CV’s of their research staff, and the staff members won’t be 16 year olds. How does my high schooler, with a background in AP Chemistry, manage to run his own project? I don’t doubt there are kids with enough genius; it’s the rest that I wonder about. </p>
<p>My college kid worked with a professor on research that was not all that high level or thrilling. Still, for this sort of thing the university’s own students have to submit resumes, writing samples, evidence of relevant coursework, and evidence of relevant experience in more significant stuff than washing test tubes and making copies. They have to be interviewed. This was a competitive process and many college students were not selected for it. I just don’t get how the high schooler waltzes in.</p>
<p>So much depends on where a child lives. Any… ANY … kid living in my county is at an extreme disadvantage if he doesn’t have personal transportation. That could be in the form of a drivers license and a car, an available parent with a car, a nanny or older sibling with a car, or a very patient carpool parent who is willing to do all of the driving. </p>
<p>Put that same kid thirty miles north, or thirty miles south, in a major city with bus and metro service, and that kid could travel anywhere.</p>
<p>Many fabulous opportunities exist in my area, with universities and other opportunities within 45 minutes. But getting there also requires personal transportation. Not everyone here is able to provide that transportation and their kids are at a disadvantage. I know kids who are unable to participate in any after school activities because they have no way to get home if they miss the bus. Both parents work a long commute away, they don’t have a drivers license yet, and they have nobody to carpool with.</p>
<p>GFG, around here, it is mostly parent connections and networking that gets kids those jobs and experiences, although our high school also offers a year long course called “independent research”, where the kid comes up with a topic and the school helps find an outside mentor for the kid to work with.</p>
<p>However, again, the kid has to find his own transportation to the lab, hospital, business, etc.</p>
<p>It does depend on where you live. In one area in which I have lived, dozens of kids in several of the local high schools have had research credentials on their college apps. Some of the high schools facilitate it, many have parents with access to opportunities, several universities, hospitals, etc nearby. Conversely, my niece lives in a far out, less helicopterish suburb of Baltimore but was able to get an opportunity at NIH, which was a 50-minute drive each way. Her mom worked extra shifts so they could afford a used car, and this ended up getting her a scholarship to a decent, but not Ivy, school where she is very happy. If she’d lived in Iowa, this wouldn’t have been possible.</p>
<p>“So far, every school except one expected the parents to stay and interview also. One time, I did not stay, not realizing it was expected. This was a top 10 school.”</p>
<p>My son interviewed at many schools and not once was I expected to stay, let alone interview. Several were alum interviews and he drove himself. </p>
<p>At the school he attends they even separate the parents from the students on the tour.</p>
<p>I should also add that I know a smart undergrad at the local state univ. who is a STEM major, and the “research” she got to do was making copies, cleaning things. Anything more important was done by the grad students.</p>
<p>EmilyBee - I loved that they separated parents and kids. You know the kids asked more/better questions without their parents in the mix. </p>
<p>My son also had several interviews and we weren’t expected to be part of the process. A couple of places did walk him back to us and asked if we had questions at the end but otherwise, we weren’t part of it at all. He also had two interviews locally with alums from schools he was applying to.</p>
<p>I like the separate tour because I think it allows the student to form a first impression without the influence of the parent (however well meaning.)</p>
<p>Bates was the first place that we toured that did that - and we’d been on a TON of tours with both boys. Many of the parents on the tour didn’t like it but I thought it was brilliant.</p>
<p>It was also the only school we toured that did it that way and I also thought it was brilliant. </p>
<p>I think the reason some parents might not like it is because they fear their kids will hear the “unvarnished truth” and it negates their influence over student and their perception of a school.</p>
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<p>I agree completely. I’m always suspicious of this as well. Is this really “smarts” or is it just connections? Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with having connections or using them. But this is why, I think, some of the applicants who present these credentials “don’t understand” why they get turned down. Top schools don’t want ONLY kids who worked-in-science-labs-because-they-lived-nearby-had-the-luxury-of-a-car-and-had-a-connection. They want some of them, not all.</p>
<p>I’m suspicious of the smarts part of it too. Not the raw intelligence, because clearly there are super smart kids out there. But how is it possible for a high school science student to propose and carry out a complicated research project on a graduate/post graduate level without the accompanying graduate school + level of education? How do they have enough knowledge of existing research and techniques, as well as lab skills and management experience to come up with a viable idea and set up the project? If very smart people can achieve at this level while only in high school, and also gain access to university facilities for free without attending that university, why do they even need to go to college or grad school? Surely some top research lab would snap them right up!</p>
<p>Emily and BT, we did an overnight; I stayed elsewhere, but everyone was noticeably welcoming to me. But, sitting in admissions, the Dir came out to chat with mine and another who were waiting for the interview- long chat. I politely walked away. The other kid was silent and his mom got his talk time. Ugh. Luckily, mine had something to say. And I adored the Dir for doing that. </p>
<p>About labs: Some kids do very specific, higher-than-hs level work. Yes, NIH has a program, some hospitals have them, just as JPL and others take in some hs kids with STEM interests.They are qualified for what it is. They come with the right potential.</p>
<p>But generally, in the vast number of circumstances, these kids are not doing the sort of work professors or grad students do. They get to work on one little aspect, usually something the team can “afford” to throw their way. Or the grunt work. Maybe making slides or testing something, compiling data or whatever. Maybe just shadowing a grad student. It’s not always about personal connections-- some of this is about offering an opportunity. They are NOT proposing, using time-tested knowledge or skills. They don’t get a budget. They are not authoring papers. And they are generally just putting in a few hours after school or on a Saturday, for some time period, or over summer. They get to see how things work, what teamwork means, the demands of the environment- for some, it enhances their commitment. For some, it changes their ideas.</p>
<p>It is what it is. Yes, plenty of STEM kids with vision pursue this. In many respects, something outside the hs realm is expected, something that qualifies the interests they purport to have. When admissions is highly competitive, this can show something more than stats/rigor and hs clubs. But it’s not magic, they still get a holistic review, the ones who clearly overstate make less of an impression- and if your kid can’t do it, fine. But he should still try to climb outside the cozy little hs box, somehow.</p>
<p>Any major research university will have summer programs in place for hs students to do research and quite possibly get college credit for the research…some are very competitive…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ibparticipation.org/pdf/SUM-IowaState-WashingtonCarver.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ibparticipation.org/pdf/SUM-IowaState-WashingtonCarver.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cbirc.iastate.edu/education/precollege/young-engineers-and-scientists-program-at-cbirc/[/url]”>http://www.cbirc.iastate.edu/education/precollege/young-engineers-and-scientists-program-at-cbirc/</a></p>
<p>[Secondary</a> Student Training Program (SSTP) / Belin-Blank Center Summer Programs](<a href=“http://www2.education.uiowa.edu/belinblank/Students/summer/programs/9-11/sstp/]Secondary”>Error - Belin-Blank Center)</p>