He already is an adult, and you can’t make him do anything, including accepting the help offered. He is in control here, not the OP, though she can control the financial resources offered to him.
Talk to his academic /engineering advisor. Don’t even have to mention your name. Get an idea of what to do. Talk with learning services/mental health services since he might be able to get the accommodations he needs going forward.
His sleep disorder brings on the depression /anxiety. Fix that and the others should improve or go away. Just treating the depression won’t get him there. Sometimes something just as melatonin can be a big help. If he is on a large university campus they might have a sleep lab. There is light therapy and a whole host of treatments to explore. Also staying away from electronics before bedtime etc. He might need to get a single room to avoid disturbances of his sleep. Being in a dark, cool, quiet room is key…Once the cycle is broken, he just needs to keep it up. The problem is if he’s not getting sleep he is most likely using caffeine /drugs to stay up for classes and the cycle continues to worsen. That’s why you have to break this cycle. This leads directly to depression. Again break that cycle. Challenging when your also in a high stress program and not doing well.
For those that say he is an adult and let him be… Well do that with your child… This is both a physical and mental health issue that he needs help with. If it’s my child, I am going to attempt to help him get through this.
The point, knowstuff, is that OP can’t fix it. The adult student has to want to curb his caffeine, take melatonin, see a therapist, or whatever other suggestions she can offer. But they are just suggestions. Our adult children are not within our control, and the solution will be up to the student, not the Mom.
I have no patience with the “let’em figure it out himself” crowd. Humans need help sometimes. Our S dropped out in his last semester. It sounds very similar–not waking up for class, just not going, avoiding the issues, etc. He had had two very successful years, then the second two, it was up and down. Personal issues had sent him into a tailspin.
We stood by his side, helped him with figuring out what could be salvaged and how. He worked through the next six years, and when he had himself in a better place, he was able to back to school, and take an overload semester, finish it with a 3.8, and immediately get a good job that he loves. Has been happily independent ever since then, getting promotions, and generally succeeding at life–an absolute joy of a human being.
None of this would have been as easy or maybe happened at all if we’d just said–yer an adult, figure it out yerself.
This is all to say to the OP that-- just know what feels so awful now is not the last scene in the story. There’s lots more story to come. Your support and help negotiating the issues is fine. We’re parents. We do not have an expiration date. Sending good thoughts to you and your family.
Garland, it would not have been your fault if the solution had not been achieved. I am glad you offered suggestions, and I am more glad your son accepted them and made the changes he needed to make. But while you helped, ultimately the responsibility and control remains your son’s. That is all I am saying. Perhaps a philosophical difference. I assume you would offer the same level of suggestions were he aged 50, and that he, as a fellow adult, will offer you support and suggestions as you age and would benefit from it, though the choice to accept those suggestions will remain yours, hopefully.
It was more complex then just “offering suggestions.” I helped research options. He lived at home for a while. Stuff like that. Of course the responsibility and control were his. But when someone’s in a bad place emotionally, they can use more than “suggestions” sometimes. And that’s all right.
Edited to add: @roycroftmom I was typing my response when yours was added, so it was not a direct response to your post right before mine.
I don’t think we are saying ‘let him figure it out’ but more ‘it’s not working, so something needs to change.’ OP says it’s not working because of a sleep disorder, depression, and a few other conditions. It’s not going to help to change majors now (especially within engineering).
If you do nothing, then your son will be dismissed at the end of this semester if his current grades are poor. He will not be able to transfer to another college other than a cc because transfers have to be in good academic standing. He is too far along in his studies to benefit from attending a community college.
You need to get the withdrawal ASAP. As you said:
Even if this happens, he is better off without this semester’s poor grades on his transcript if they are Ds or Fs.
That isn’t going to help someone who doesn’t get up and go to class. Besides, those are not “easier” majors in any meaningful way.
I don’t see anyone saying this.
@sylvan8798 it was applied from a few posters. Sorry but my passion for helping kids that need it is coming through.
I have not been exactly where you are in terms of where my child was in their college career but I have dealt with a severely depressed child in college, had to medically withdraw, and helped a mom with her engineering son medically withdraw and be a support to her as a friend.
Get in touch with the Dean of Students on Monday the second he/she is in the office. Also contact advising and ask what you need to do. They cannot talk specifics if they don’t have authorization from your S, but they can outline the steps or get you to the right people. But know, no matter how limited or not your options, you need to have all the information what is before you now and options going forward. Take a notepad. Make/get copies of everything. Don’t sign something without every detail written out. Everything you are told, everything, needs to be written on everything you sign.
In March of 2016, we had to medically withdraw our D from OOS university. We went through the Dean of Students. She had severe depression and anxiety. In December of 2015, she had had an emergency appendectomy during finals week, missing two, for which she received an incomplete. She had until the end of finals the following semester to make them up. She had had depression before, in February of her Sr year in high school do to a situation she had kept secret from us until it boiled over and the truth came out. She had been hospitalized over it. She had taken medication and saw a therapist and was back to her self by August and was ready to head to college. After the surgery in Dec and by the end of January, she was feeling depressed again. Her roommate had transferred at break, she stood up to some mean girls in her sorority in support of a friend and that didn’t sit well and she became disenchanted with it, keeping up with a load of science classes and studying to retake the prior semester finals, and keep up with current demands was getting to her.
I drove up from our state and we went to the campus Dr. We told her history and he put he on anti depressants again. It helped somewhat but by end of March, we had to medically withdraw her. We started with her advisor, who put us in touch with Dean of Students and we went from there. She gave us a checklist of what all needed to be done and who we needed to see. We did this over the course of 2 days after the day we initially drove up.
In the end, she lost her spring semester with all W’s (we were before the April 8 deadline by 9 days). I don’t know what would have been the case had it been after the withdraw with W’s date. With her medical withdrawal, she had a year in which she could come back without having to be a readmitted student and her out of state tuition waiver stayed intact if she came back within that year.
We were able to document her condition to qualify for medical leave with the records of her recent past depression of Sr year, hospitalization and the two trips I made up to the university between January and the day of withdraw. While we were there at the uni to withdraw, we got an appointment with the Dr she had seen twice and he wrote a letter for us about the two times he had seen her for depression and he made note of the time she had been seen for pneumonia. We also brought the records of her appendectomy.
We were also able to file with the board about a tuition refund, which we were granted. This did not include dorm costs or meal plan.
When we got home, she immediately went back into counseling and after a month, she got a job. In a few months, she was much better and decided to enroll in a university system school in our city instead of going back to the out of state uni. She continued therapy about a year and was off the meds around 6 months. She has been on the Dean’s list every semester since. She should have graduated this May, but she is two years off schedule. Her hours from oos university transferred as electives as the degree she had there (Animal Science) isn’t offered here. She took the two semesters of pre reqs for the business college, making all A’s and made it in, only to change her major to nursing two weeks before school started in fall 2016. She has since made all A’s and one B and will find out in March if she made it into upper level nursing school with a 3.87 overall GPA and 4.0 science GPA, for fall 2019. If so, she will graduate Spring 2021, the same semester her younger brother at a different university will, God willing. It is not where you start, it is where you finish.
That younger brother is in engineering at an instate university. He is a Jr in a 5 yr program. His freshman roommate had to be withdrawn in March of their freshman year. Super smart kid from out of state but he got depressed. My S picked up on his symptoms that were like his sister’s and I texted the mom. My experience with our D helped me to help her through the process and that she and her son were not alone. It happens to a lot of students. She too, had driven down to go to campus Dr in January for anti depressants and anti anxiety meds but he could not overcome. He had Q dropped two classes already and he only had two classes to attend. Unfortunately for him, they did not consider the onset of depression during the time he began college to qualify the same as my daughter. I forget the particulars exactly but they were unable to receive tuition refund and there were some other differences with the two universities. He went home, stayed on his anti depressants for a bit and got back to being himself. Through a university in their state (which coincidentally, happened to be the one my D had attended) the university partnered with a community college for engineering. He was able to enroll in that community college program and then transition to the engineering program at the university and he is flying now. Depression can set one back but it doesn’t mean it’s an end game. Just that the paths may change and you go down the road a little at a time instead of a mapped route.
Being that your son is in 4th year may be more complicated than the two freshman examples but you will not know your options for his specific school until you speak directly to the Dean of Students. It does not mean a phone call only. It means going to the university and sitting with him/her with your son present. You may get a year to come back without having to be a readmit, or your son may need to take some time off, get back to himself, and apply as a readmit. Find out everything you need to know to do if going back as a readmit. You need to be as educated as he is right now on what to do. This is where you have to go back to guiding him that things are done without overwhelming him more. Depression is ugly and it sucks. You too, need guidance on how to parent an adult child with depression. I strongly suggest it. It will help you immensely for your own sanity and you will not contribute more to your son’s depression through unrealistic expectation or good intentions that really hurt more than help. Depression is a family disease. And it can get better.
You have my sincerest empathy. If you ever need an ear, feel free to PM me. You are not alone and it can be a trying journey while you are in the thick of it. Take care of you, too. ((((((((HUGS)))))) to you mamma.
@garland exactly! Sometimes being a parent is not exactly what’s in the parents rules book. Sometimes we have to improvise. Glad to hear that everything worked out.
Hi all,
Wow, I’m really touched by the responses from this caring group! Sorry for the delayed response, we’ve been away from home all day.
@colorado_mom @techmom99 -he hated the normal math and physics classes early on, but is loving his core classes.The sleep issues really started getting worse this past fall. That creates self loathing, and voila, here we are. Late responses to messages I have sent him have had me scared more than once. He’s always said he would never hurt himself, but as a mom, I’m always worrying. His welfare is my main concern always.
@Knowsstuff -you are right, it’s a vicious cycle. When he has something important like a test, he just won’t bother going to sleep. He literally will not hear multiple alarms going off in his room, We’ve also tried shake alarms and a shock watch. He has tried every damn thing his CBT-I Therapist has taught him to do also, but we’ve been told some people with DSPS are never able to operate in a 9-5 world.
That being said, we’re not willing to throw in the towel yet.
Based on the advice you all have given, here’s what we’re thinking.
- Get on the phone first thing in Monday morning with Dean (advisor hasn’t been much help, he’s had 4 so far) to discuss situation and medical withdrawal. The school notes if a student is on probation, a medical withdrawal is an instant academic dismissal.
- If it’s too late for that, we see if he achieves the required grades for the semester (his cumulative is 2.75 currently). If he does, we process a medical withdrawal and have him come home to continue working on getting better with sleep center and therapist. When/if he’s ready, he processes paperwork to return.
How does that sound?
OP- big hugs, this is challenging for sure.
Before you go too far with your options- how much is your son willing to let you do, how much is he willing to do himself, what kind of commitment is he ready to make towards his own health? I don’t think a sleep center is going to take a young man who won’t fully participate in his own treatment. And the Dean is not going to be helpful unless your son gives the Dean permission to discuss potentially confidential information (both medical and academic).
Where is your son in this scenario? Resisting you? Agreeing to come home?
And have you asked him if substance abuse is a factor?
@blossom, thanks for the response. He is very much in the “self-hate” mode. He went to multiple therapy appointments this summer working on his sleep issues and improved greatly. The problem is when he went back to school, he slipped right back into staying up late to study and the cycle started all over. He understands that he needs to do whatever he can to move forward, including coming home. He has already signed permissions for us to talk to the school, etc. We’ve discussed substance abuse, he states it is not an issue.
Stress can also exacerbate sleep problems, causing a vicious cycle: sleeping in and missing a class leads to poor grades, which leads to stress, which leads to insomnia, which leads to sleeping in and missing class…
Just as a FYI… Biofeedback works great for both sleep disorders and depression /anxiety. You can notice results in just a few treatments. Find someone that understands sleep disorders.
@Knowsstuff He’s been going to the Midwest Sleep Center in Naperville, IL since summer and he’s been doing CBT-I therapy. I’ll look into it, thank you.
I was going to see if you were going to actually in Illinois. I will PM you.