<p>^^^ Thanks, and it does make me feel better that at least some of the new houses are opening up to all comers. I would hope, for example, that Delta Gama, being their first year of recruitment, would have a more inclusive plan from the get-go. Right?</p>
<p>You have just described the daily life for a person of color…perhaps not being only one among many in all situations…but certainly feeling like most everyone else doesn’t look like you. Imagine what that would be like every day for a lifetime and not just your college years. Having intentionally placed myself in that situation several times, I can tell you it is very disconcerting, indeed…it is also enlightening.</p>
<p>This thread has made my stomach hurt, my head hurt, and I feel nauseous. My daughter is a person of color. She is Asian…from India…and I did <em>not</em> want her to go to Alabama because of the idea that <em>every</em> opportunity at UA would not be open to her…plain and simple. We live in Auburn and AU’s Greek record is not much better. Thankfully, some of the traditionally white sororities have pledged AA, Asian, and biracial girls from Auburn High…but, truthfully, rush is not the same for non-Caucasians here either. I didnt want her to go to either school. And then she got an invitation to University Fellows. It is perfect for my daughter .she wants to accomplish big things. She wants to make a difference in the lives of others. But she is shy and needs something like UFE.</p>
<p>We had looked at schools all over the south…all the way up into VA… she hates the cold and preferred to be as far south as possible. At every school, Vandy, Emory, Wake, Davidson, Furman, Tulane, Sewanee, Wm & Mary, Alabama, etc., I asked if the Greek system was segregated. She had expressed an interest in rush. At the same time, I begin filling her with negatives about the Greek system…at first without telling her the real truth…it was too painful .it was too personal. How do I begin? “Sweetie, I know you’re kind and generous and gorgeous and a stellar student, but I’m sorry, your skin is a just little too brown.” </p>
<p>Finally, I had to do it. I was about to send her into the world on her own. She needs to know. She is naive. She has gone to a high school that is extremely diverse. She won’t <em>get it</em> unless I tell her. But, how do I do that? </p>
<p>How does a mother tell her daughter that her life is about to change…“You are a minority, honey…and while your life has been largely unaffected by that up to this point, things are going to be different from now on. Your values and your deeds will no longer be the basis of how people will know you. People will look at you and think they know you. Your world is getting larger. Your options are getting smaller.” </p>
<p>But more importantly, how does a mother encourage her daughter to even <em>consider</em> a college knowing she is barred from participating in a system in which a significant percentage of the student population is engaged? How does one do that without feeling disloyal to her child? </p>
<p>And then somewhere along the way, I realize that my worries, my heartaches are played out day after day after day for countless mothers. I am white. I have not had to think about looking different from most of the people in my world. It is a new experience, for me but not new in the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>So, I decide the truth shall set me free at least free to talk openly with my daughter. We have had many occasions to celebrate our good fortune we are a bi-racial family. We know that many people are not as fortunate. We live every day knowing that our love is not restricted by irrational barriers based on skin color. And so we have the talk .about not just UA, but the WORLD and PEOPLE and how some of us just have to know the truth in our hearts and go on about our business trying to show others what they are missing. Lady D is so right …experience with people who are different is the key to the knowledge that we really arent so different.</p>
<p>I am truly sorry to be so verbose it was selfish on my part reading this thread was causing me to worry all over again …how could I have allowed her to go to a school where we all know she starts from a point of disadvantage? Writing has helped me reach the point I did a few months ago being angry that the world, not just UA, is the way it is .but realizing that things can change when enough people are interested in seeing it happen. And while many comments on this thread are disheartening, some of you are so forthright in your willingness to speak out that I am very encouraged that your children will make a difference .at UA and the WORLD. </p>
<p>I would NEVER have thought Id be agreeing with NJBama in a million years. Just goes to show you, things can change! :)</p>
<p>waddaw… standing up and applauding you!..i didnt have the same courage as you to continue on this thread… One of my children is a bi racial child, and i seethed at the comments by some on this thread…perhaps i took things too personally as that is the perspective i viewed the comments from… but the arguments became self serving and circular to me…</p>
<ol>
<li><p>adamantly…yes we are diverse…just compare our numbers…YET… no we arent that diverse there are not enough students that would want an integrated system of greek
houses</p></li>
<li><p>people will relate to their own race or religion…YET…we cant have one aspect of the entire college experience that might lead to romantic partnering… yet dorms, classes etc are not segregated.</p></li>
<li><p>we have better or equivalent numbers as other states schools, but you just cant make the frats/sororities integrate…YET those other state schools have done so… Yet the “south is more integrated than the north”"</p></li>
</ol>
<p>UA has an opportunity to be a star in this aspect…but it has to take action to do so, not settle for the status quo. And if Auburn, UAB, Troy, South, BSC or any others are the same…then they need to as well</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>me too!</p>
<p>wow.</p>
<p>Waddaw…great post!</p>
<p>and, it is long past time that schools create some incentives for the houses to integrate. It won’t happen overnight…because AAs will be slow to even sign up for non-AA Rush. </p>
<p>Don’t know who the right person is to pressure to institute these incentives…</p>
<p>Hey guys, it’s me, the guy who originally posted this thread…so, with everything stated above, should I or shouldn’t I rush non AA?</p>
<p>m2ck… the right person?? that’s easy its EVERY person! and who says AA’s will be slow to sign up?? waddaw’s D is eager!</p>
<p>I am a Kappa alum (KKG), and when I get my magazine, I notice that many chapters have at least a few AA women. But, here is the issue, and the only issue really. Would you feel comfortable in an all white house? Or would you feel more comfortable in an AA house? If you fit in, you fit in. I’ve known many AA men that did not feel comfortable in an AA frat for various reasons. The truth is, many of the 99% white frats are the most prestigious, and if I were you, if this is what you want, go for it. If these are guys you honestly see yourself bonding with, spending time with, and respecting, I honestly do believe you will receive a bid. If you are offended by off color jokes-some racist-then NO. And by the way, I’m sure the jokes fly at the AA houses as well. If you have something to offer, and you feel THEY have something good to offer, then GO FOR IT. Remember, it is a SOCIAL match, a life long (allegedly) bond.
Set race aside, and factor in the rest. GPA? Star Athlete? Star musician? Letters? (of recommendation) and so on.</p>
<p>^ I suppose on the most basic level, it depends on if you find a group of guys you “click” with, a commonality that makes you think you want to be tied to these guys as your brothers forever.
You may find that in one of the newer integrated fraternities, I find it a hard leap to think you will find that with a group that either blatantly or silently don’t want you.
I am assuming from the above posts that there are fraternities to whom the whole separation thing is abhorent. Find those guys.
Also a shout out to the GDIs - while I understand, especially on this board, that it seems like Greek is a huge thing, there are many MANY who don’t give it a second thought. Don’t think you need to pledge to be a part of something - the majority do not and still have a great and productive time at UA.</p>
<p>* the right person?? that’s easy its EVERY person! *</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>Every person cannot implement the incentives needed. Someone high up at Bama would need to implement those incentives.</p>
<p>and who says AA’s will be slow to sign up?? waddaw’s D is eager!</p>
<p>She is Asian…from India</p>
<p>Waddaw’s D is not AA. And, since Waddaw’s D is not AA, she doesn’t have AA Greek houses as a popular alternative. My point was that it will be difficult to get AA’s to go thru non-AA rush… That said, since my son’s suitemate is Indian/Asian and is in a White frat, I do know that success can already be had there. </p>
<p>Oh…and here’s the response from my son’s GF (who is not white) when I asked her about AA’s in White houses at UAB…</p>
<p>*Black students choose to go to the black fraternities/sororities. I think that sororities are more accepting than fraternities here.<br>
*</p>
<p>KP9…</p>
<p>If you want to rush then I suggest that you do what others do…and that is make early contacts with various houses. This is true for everyone.</p>
<p>i guess i dont differentiate the same way you do m2ck… here is a mother saying she is hurting for her child who is a minority… to me its the same thing…</p>
<p>oh…and my son’s response was different, as i asked him about uab frats ,than your son’s gf…so who knows and i have also said that as i have no personal knowledge of the frats at uab, i have included uab in every post that i made re the schools need to change, if they have allowed any segregation imo</p>
<p>Fraternities are private organizations who hold the right to extend and withdraw membership for whatever reason they want. The university cannot force any of those organizations to extend bids to people they do not want to extend bids to. Any attempt at an implementation of acts requiring quotas would be met with a large amounts of lawsuits. That being said, I am a mixed ethnicity student at Alabama, and I am a member of a traditionally white fraternity. We actually have multiple members who are not white. We do not discriminate based on race, but on whether or not they fit in with our shared values. It doesn’t matter if you’re white, black, asian, or hispanic. If you show up at a rush event “thugged out”, or in tap out, there is a very low likelihood of getting a bid. We want conservative, upper-middle class kids who are fun to hang out with. They needn’t be heavy drinkers, common misconception, just good people.</p>
<p>In response to momof3boyz, I am a member of that organization that I believe you are referencing, and I can assure you that your son was not dropped because of an intolerance of racist attitudes. I will not go into any further detail than that.</p>
<p>Rolltide13, you are correct, they don’t have to. But as has been said here already, the university does contribute real benefit to the houses in the form of land leases and other privileges. If the university found it to be a goal not to allow overt discrimination, they could revoke the leases and other benefits those houses may receive and “allow” those fine institutions to take their membership off campus and not officially recognize them or their Charter … Just like they might do to discipline a house for breaking other University rules or policies.</p>
<p>You don’t find any ethical implications in discriminating against an organization just because they don’t meet certain peoples standards for racial diversity? Whether you do or do not, the university would never implement any legislation of that kind for fear of lawsuits. Which could be easily won. Also, the possibility of losing greek alumni donations.</p>
<p>Silly question occurs to me. (just an attempt at humor)</p>
<p>If the University attempts to get rid of overt racial discrimination,
would it also have to get rid of blatant religious and sexual discrimination?</p>
<p>-Frats and Sororities are based wholly on sex based discrimination
(and what guy doesn’t want to join a Sorority?)</p>
<p>-Hispanic student club, Chinese Student club, Jewish, Catholic, Atheists, etc., organizations would all be forced to integrate? Veterans, Atheists, Coalition of Elite African Americans, Baha’i, Mormons?</p>
<p>"I would NEVER have thought I’d be agreeing with NJBama in a million years. Just goes to show you, things can change! "</p>
<p>Congrats on finally being on the right side of an argument, waddaw :-)</p>
<p>Offering incentives to segregate is NOT the answer. Students must change their attitudes and treat others with respect. If all GREEKS would abide by the Mission and Vision Statement, positive change will occur on its own. How about an ALL GREEK Movie Night in Coleman Coliseum to view “The Help” at the start of each semester Rush? Wake Up Folk! New attitudes and traditions can start today. </p>
<p>Change is possible if the entire GREEK SYSTEM got back to basics as outlined on the Greek Life web site. I posted it below for your review. </p>
<p>Our Mission
To advance the ideals of brotherhood and sisterhood, promote academic excellence and service to the community, and cultivate values-centered leaders through our programs, daily interactions, and commitment to high standards.</p>
<p>Our Vision
The Office of Greek Affairs at the University of Alabama will partner with students, alumni and other stakeholders to build a Greek community unified through its congruence with shared values, commitment to high standards and desire to be recognized as the premier Greek community in the nation.</p>
<p>Our Strategic Goals</p>
<p>Support the Universitys vision of recruiting the best and brightest students by maintaining high academic standards, developing initiatives aimed at increasing the academic performance and retention of Greek members, and by showcasing the Greek community as a vital component of student recruitment efforts</p>
<p>Develop a comprehensive, values-based leadership development model that will complement the Universitys emphasis on leadership</p>
<p>Enhance the learning experience of fraternity and sorority members through programs and services designed to improve students critical thinking and problem solving, communication skills, ethical reasoning and values alignment, intercultural competence and civic engagement</p>
<p>Create programs, policies and standards aimed at improving the health, safety and well-being of fraternity and sorority members</p>
<p>Engage Greek alumni in a way that will build a sense of pride in the community and the University, create an understanding of the potential of the community to positively impact the University and the lives of fraternity and sorority members, and instill a desire to engage and invest in the communitys future</p>
<p>thanks for posting that momof3! that is what i meant by EVERY person can make that change…you dont have to identify the “correct person” just live and practice what you know should be… if you believe that any form of segregation is wrong then by your own actions dont allow it to continue…pledge with an integrated frat/sorority. or dont pledge at all… as AL34 posted non greek life is wonderful too! and actually the majority of students dont go greek.</p>