I agree with others that he’s at a very rigorous school and his GPA isn’t that bad, considering. Your post can serve to highlight that many kids who are high school superstars lose their lustre a bit when they go to a very competitive college. So many kids think they must get in to the most selective school, and if they do, find that it isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
I don’t think he needs to switch schools. You will all benefit from adjusting expectataions. He should go to counseling now and when he returns to college, and not bite off more than he can chew. You also should reassure him that he’s doing fine. Getting a few C’s in college is fine, really. Especially a college like U Penn.
I think you should definitely adjust your attitude and expectation. Your wrote
Nobody got into any top school easily. You wrote
C is the passing grade for college. Actually George W. Bush has said “C students, you too can be president.” If you adjust your expectation first, your son can then adjust his expectation. **Those who do not realize that happiness is a choice and not a consequence of circumstance are hopping onto a roller coaster that they will never get off. **
I had a similar experience with an accomplished high school student who had lots of trouble at a different Ivy.
The workload was crushing compared to HS, and it was more than he really wanted. We had weekly phone calls as others advised above, and I think that helped him. We went to visit once/year on some long weekend of his choice.
It was a tough road but he just got his undergrad degree and is actually going back for a masters.
He got through this just deciding to put effort into the courses he loves, less into those he does not, and accept the outcome. Degree on the wall says it worked out OK, though we’ll see how well prepared he is for grad school.
The family of Madison Holleran — the 19-year-old Penn student who jumped to her death four years ago — provided her suicide note to People magazine. It was published in its February 2, 2015 issue. It is done to raise awareness of the struggles college freshmen face and to propel dialogue between family members. Her father was quoted by People’s Nicole Egan as saying, “Parents, if you see a huge change in your child and you haven’t discussed suicide with them, open that discussion up.” (See www.madisonholleranfoundation.org/ for more information on the mission.)
Actually her family found two suicide notes. The one in her dorm room read:
“I don’t know who I am anymore. trying. trying. trying, I’m sorry. I love you … sorry again … sorry again … sorry again … How did this happen?”
The second, accompanied by gifts for family members, read:
“*I thought how unpleasant it is to be locked out, and I thought how it is worse perhaps to be locked in.* For you mom … the necklaces … For you, Nana & Papa … Gingersnaps (always reminds me of you) … For you Ingrid … The Happiness Project. And Dad … the Godiva chocolate truffles. I love you all … I’m sorry. I love you.”
UPenn is a tough school. I trust OP must have a good reason when they pulled their son out of UPenn after one semester. I won’t criticize OP for the move. OP, you said you are “stressed out parents” and your kid was “stressed and sad with low grades in home work”. If you could persuade yourselves and your son that grades are just a bunch of letters, you will be able to move on. Many people have moved on. Your son has capability to move on. He has demonstrated it in the first semester. Social aspect is the focus for the recovery. Here is one Brown student’s story: ( www.browndailyherald.com/2018/05/25/michelle-zabat-dad-jokes/ ) I hope this story encourages you and your son.
We have been extremely cautious and warned our kid not to take on heavy course load in the first semester. First semester is the time to get familiar with the environment and build confidence. It is also a time to know more people and spend time exploring. Obviously we have read Madison Holleran’s story and were shocked. You must somehow gain your son’s trust back (without criticizing him) and get a fresh start.
DH was a Penn CS/Accounting major with a 3.2 UG and had a 2.2 his final semester of college (was working, interviewing, trying to graduate a semester early because he had no money left to continue, and was not so focused on classes). He tended to have either 4.0s or 2.Xs each semester. He also found the social aspects of Penn very difficult, as he was a first-generation college student and there was not the level of economic and social diversity that now exists on campus. He went on to a T-14 law school. All is not lost!
OTOH, the OP’s S needs to be honest about what is happening and to get the help he needs to be healthy. Only then he can succeed in college. He may need to adjust what success for him looks like. He may need to change how he studies. CS in the engineering school s a very tough major and EVERYONE there is a top student. Not everyone there will be a Big Fish. Is he struggling with the CS courses or the engineering core? If it’s the core, once he gets past that, he may find he does better in his major courses. It’s a big leap from HS (even a good one) to engineering at an Ivy. S2’s former GF busted her tail and was VERY thankful to have gotten a 3.0 her first semester, and she was very conscientious, went to profs for help, attended had study groups and had exceptional study skills. It took everything she had for that 3.0. Things did get better as she learned what was expected and she’s now finishing her PhD.
Even if he chooses to transfer, the level of work and study required is a big step up from HS.
Both of my kids took a term off to deal with personal issues. For one of them, he just needed to refocus on the non-major areas of his coursework (he was programming to the exclusion of everything else), but therapy helped him work out some issues. The other was dealing with depression and anxiety and probably returned to school too soon. His grades weren’t great, but he graduated and after a couple of years getting his footing, he is now doing something he loves.
I had a similar issue with my son, who was also a CS major. My son was a good student in high school, had good grades and high ACT scores, but he struggled during his first year of college. His first semester, he got mostly As, but he failed several classes his second semester and lost his full tuition scholarship. He took too many difficult classes his first year because he had already completed most of his Gen Eds, and I think that he wasn’t able to keep up in those difficult CS classes because he has ADHD and horrible organizational skills. I also think that he was spending too much time gaming and not enough time studying. My son begged us to give him a second chance and promised us that he would get tutors, go to counseling sessions, see his advisor, and work hard if we paid for him to return for another semester. We reluctantly paid for him to go back in the Fall and he ended up doing poorly again and didn’t go to tutoring sessions and meet with his advisor as promised. He ended up dropping all of his classes at midterm and came home so he wouldn’t receive any more bad grades. He’s been working since then, and is saving money to go back to a local university in the future because we refuse to pay for his college any longer. It doesn’t sound like your son has screwed up as much as mine did, but I would personally be very hesitant to pay for him to go back unless you know for certain what went wrong his first semester and he sees a counselor. CS is a very difficult major and he is going to struggle again if he doesn’t get the help that he needs.
There’s a very big difference between a student who pulls a C+ average during their first semester in a difficult major and one who is failing classes.
Joining the discussion late, but some schools aren’t for everyone. My ex- graduated #1 in his HS class, and #1 from his college, and went to Harvard on a NSF fellowship. He dropped out because he was flunking out. In no way, shape or form, was he a Harvard student, competitively or socially. Parents and students need to be realistic, the Ivies aren’t for every student. Some people can’t handle the competition, after being top of their class before. At Harvard, you are just another Valedictorian, like every one else. Maybe your son needs to find a school that is better suited for him Counseling is a good idea too.
Have any of your kids ever protested they can’t devote time to you and your calls and questions because they’re overloaded with schoolwork? Have ay expressed fristration at a low grade?
Lookingforward, I’m sure you’re the exception. But most AOs are just ordinary human beings and they don’t have special talents separating geniuses from the merely talented, the merely talented from the borderline qualified. With easy standardized tests (or even no standardized test), easy courses and inflated grades in most HSs, etc, AOs are left with only manipulatable ECs, essays, and impossible-to-homogenize recommendations. How can AOs not make mistakes? I wish professors were still involved in the admission process. But with the large number of applicants, it’s no longer possible in today’s world (with a few exceptions).
AO’s do the best they can, with the kid’s record, as it is, not guessing, and the traits that come through in the actual app and supp. They aren’t pushovers.
The higher the tier of colleges, the better they know the patterns and overall strengths that work. They know the in-class challenges in different majors. That’s their work. How a kid actually performs has much to do with his own choices. Many top colleges, including Penn, have superb academic support services.
This is more than presuming inflated grades and easy courses. OP’s son did take 15 AP and get mostly 5 scores. While the number isn’t what pushes an admit, I’m guessing this is a kid who entered well prepared, academically. I’d guess he was stress tested in hs.
What happened next, we don’t know. OP said he chose some very demanding courses. But OP has been awol since the 8th.
But what kind of universe are we in that parent and/or student equate a 2.5 GPA with failing? And now blame the admissions decisions for somehow not managing to admit an entire college class of Lake Wobegoners where every student will have an A average?
Don’t think the AO pick the wrong kid here. Be able to complete 15 APs in high school with high marks was a great accomplishment. Maybe being overconfidence by skipping prerequisite courses and went straight to advanced courses were the key to the downfall of OP’s son. Or maybe study habit changed from his HS days due to distraction/addiction to TV, gaming, and other fun activities, as OP said, now no one is watching/nagging him to put on the due effort in study.
We had similar experience as the OP’s with our own D last year. D was a high achiever in HS with 13 APs and accepted in a top tier school. She did bad in one class in her 1st semester (got a C). The 2nd semester, her CS class slid from B to C and toward D after mid-term. In the spring break, I diagnosed with her by going through her past tests and projects. It was her study habit had deviated from her HS routine — pre-read class material,start projects early, do extra assignments, look outside class for extra practice… So her projects were missing part here and there, and her tests had some blank and parts could not complete in time. We told her a grade C and below from now on meant repeat the class, and after repeating twice the same class, you need to go home to start from CC.
D made a quick U turn after the spring break and got her final grade in B. She actually was so happy when she got her grade because her confidence came back and knowing she could compete with her peers without problem if she put in her due effort. It is all about good study habit/routine and time management.
But some of us are saying, what downfall? One challenging semester. This one stopped for an internship of some sort.
OP did say, “…part of the problem was that he focussed so much on the toughest course and ignore the other less complex ones where he could have scored well.” Many kids would have taken that lesson and rearranged second semester. He didn’t get that chance. Maybe he would have seen his turnaround.
^^^And when one FINALLY gets to start taking the courses they came to college to attend, it’s easy to slip into that mindset. At last! Courses in my major! Let me dive in! It’s hard, but it’s FUN!
Of course, those other gen ed/core courses don’t seem as appealing, but sliding through them isn’t as simple in HS, even if one got 5s on APs in those areas. BTDT. S1 also has BTDT.
And if a student has ADD/executive function issues and was able to do well in HS thanks to supportive parents who helped keep things like meals and laundry organized so said kid could study, the whole thing can fall apart when that kid heads to college and has to organize and manage everything in his life. BTDT with S2. (Part of why I’m glad he’s an expat right now is that he has to do all these things himself. It’s easy to slip into parent-child relationships if a S or D returns home after college. I want him to have such a good time living independently that he is motivated to strike out on his own or with roommates when he comes back.)