help...freshman son so unhappy

Parents Forum
41

<p>I think that all of the above posts have good points. </p>

<p>Being a pre-med is very demanding but perhaps if your son stays at his current school and digs, he will find a group that support one another. The hard part is the digging, especially for someone who had a relatively easy time socially during high school. There are periods during the semester when the workload is lighter than 40+ hours/week and even a pre-med can free up some time. I have gotten the impression that there is pressure created by some students in the pre-med community to work constantly and only take on EC's that will look good on a med school application. There will also be a few that will only discuss going to a top ten med school.....why bother going to med school otherwise?;) All the more reason to make the time to do something away from that crowd. </p>

<p>If my daughter is representative, there is some initial shock at no longer being a straight-A student. Of course, there are some people that are unbelievably gifted and can pull off the pre-med curriculum getting only A's along the way. God bless. Initially there were one or two classmates that made her feel a bit defensive about her goal of having a broadly based academic experience rather than being a science major.....she got over that one pretty quickly. It can take a little time to access peer relationships and sift out the few people who will mess with your head from the people that are real. Just like in high school, there are people who posture.</p>

<p>I don't think that this is a universal rule but I remember being surprised when I noticed that (of my daughter's high school classmates) the kids that seemed to be having the hardest time adjusting to college were the ones for which high school had been soooo socially easy. I wonder if it can sometimes be difficult to start from scratch when you have been one of the social stars. </p>

<p>My D is at a pretty demanding school and in time found a crop of people in the sciences that have their eyes on the prize but occasionally have a life. It took some time. Her first friends at college were not pre-meds and those people are still incredibly important to her. They help her keep perspective. It took a great deal longer to find her pre-med group. </p>

<p>I also notice that your son hasn't been able to pursue his normal exercise routine. My daughter couldn't live without her running and spinning. It is a huge stress reliever. IMHO, your son has hung in amazingly well considering what has gone on during his first semester. I hope that as all of his outside stuff settles down he will find that there are some people that he connects with.</p>

42

<p>Premed requires a total of like 11 courses (or about a third of total courseload) spread out over a course of four years. Pre-meds can choose to be stressed if they like by loading up in the first two years, but they don't have to. However, at many schools (especially big, private prestige u's) a combination of poor advising and the need to "weed out" premeds conspire to make many students' lives perfectly miserable (until they give up the medical dream). That's the whole idea.</p>

<p>He might have been a great, happy premed at another school, or still might be. He might be a happy non-premed where he is. Or he might find another way to deal with it, and have some fun.</p>

<p>Life is short.</p>

43

<p>Big Fish, Small Pond>>> Small Fish, Big Pond</p>

<p>I don't think my D cares about being the big fish, and she had an incredibly marvelous HS experience, she was one of those who the staff just adored....and she does not want to be feted at university, she has made friends, but she misses the closeness of every one knowing each other so very well and every one caring, even the staff.</p>

<p>She has already gotten to know many of her teachers & TAs, she will always be that kid who asks the prof a question in the 800 person lecture- because she had a question....my older D would be the silent one in the back row who makes fun of the questioner later!!</p>

<p>I always heard the Springsteen "Glory Days" song and did not think she would be that person and D is not missing the Glory days, she is missing the incredibly supportive environment which was a perfect fit for her and allowed her to be ever so successful in all facets of HS, The same HS did not do that for D#1, so it was, all about fit :)</p>

<p>This same D had a choice at some LACs back east which would have had a similar feel and she felt she was ready to hit the big leagues. Now I keep reminding her this pain is growing pains, just like your muscles hurt after sports, your psyche hurts after emotional pain and losing your support groups and being expected to start from scratch is painful. Perhaps the difference in the kids with the great HS experience is that they have not yet learned some of those painful lessons which most kids learn along the way.</p>

<p>If it is a big school, there should be some people like him, whatever that is, but it is tough to find them amongst the huge crowd. My D is involved in an EC on a regular basis, it almost overwhelms her schedule, yet she has not found very many potential close friends in her EC. She is trying other things, too, but it is painful, the boyfriend at the school where so many from her HS go is not helping either.</p>

<p>I do think there is a bit of the grass is greener, it may be at times, but not always and not in all categories,.</p>

<p>I have told D she needs to finish this year, acting the entire time as if she is coming back, so she does not blow it there, and also consider options, even taking a year off. I suspect she will return, but it needs to be her choice and sometimes just knowing you have a choice is helpful in choosing the right thing to do.</p>

44

<p>Faline, what a lovely post!</p>

45

<p>All of your responses are wonderful and help so much. Was it this hard for us? or do we just remember the good times?</p>

<p>Somemom, you're right. He does need to finish semester as if he is coming back, otherwise why make an effort to make friends?</p>

46

<p>Mini,
I just read an article addressing the "weed out" you mentioned. It stated that many institutions boast a high med school acceptance rate solely because they make the premed load so difficult, students drop the idea before they ever apply to med school.</p>

47

<p>Your S had a very rough first semester indeed, but looking at the summary of CGM it seems that many of the contributing factors had nothing to do with his choice of school. Multiple health issues, girl problems, weekends away from school and a tough pre-med schedule are all conditions that would have existed no matter where he attended college. I think it would have been remarkable if he had formed a close circle of friends under these difficult circumstances. The fact that he has succeeded academically and is enjoying his profs and new research opportunities despite these factors is a big indicator to me that he is starting to find his niche at Wake. He just needs more time to catch up on the first semester that he essentially "missed" socially. His start was not filled with ordinary circumstances. </p>

<p>I would ask him to really give it a good try, keep an open mind and then you can all re-evaluate the situation in May. Don't entertain conversations filled with negativity. Give him an opportunity to fully immerse himself in campus life-weekends at school. Wake has a home basketball game Saturday-suggest he attend and he will probably have a ball. </p>

<p>Nothing is worse than getting those phone calls from an unhappy kid, but take comfort in the fact that the beginning of 2nd semester is a very common time for kids to talk of transferring, even kids that sailed thru the fall semester. By May, they can't imagine attending any other school. The kids come home over the holidays and reconnect with everything and everyone familiar and yes, the grass does oftentimes sound greener at someone else's campus. They often need to get over the hump of that first winter to realize that their own campus's grass is the perfect shade of green.</p>

48

<p>Mini,</p>

<p>I think that your "weeding out" post is right on the money.</p>

49

<p>Yup. And some schools (including some of the most famous premed factories) even allow you to go through the whole pre-med curriculum and then refuse to provide anything in the way of recommendations from the med-school committee. </p>

<p>It's why places with superb advising and much more widely available research opportunities - like Kalamazoo or Hope or Ursinus - or being among the top students at a mid-level state university is often a much better choice for a future doc than a top 25 uni.</p>

50

<p>Another thought, I had not noted your son's physical issues before, in many ways you cannot begin to count the time spent at university until after he recovered. He was obviously unable to participate in things then, and had not yet made close friends to help him through, so in many ways he is starting from scratch after the health issues. I remind my D that it really takes a year to make good friends, real friends and she will not know until later who they will be, she has to be open to many options.</p>

<p>I could describe all the good things about my D's first year and write an amazing "Christmas letter" or I could write about all the negatives and colour the experience very bleak (ly?) Ah, but that is life. </p>

<p>Mainly, my D is homesick, misses family, misses friends, misses what was amazing and comfortable. Every one in the family told her we did not think she should choose the big school she did, but the ones we liked were back east and she would be feeling even worse now, to be so far away. She went into a big state school with her eyes (theoretically) open, we had pointed out many potential issues, she has experienced many, though they don't bother her as much as the finding new "good" friends. Her roommate situation has been strained since the beginning, 2 other girls in the triple & they chose to room together, so she is the odd man out. They are working on connecting better, but this has been a constant issue, which will be solved next year when she lives in a sorority.</p>

<p>D is the one who shares everything, so her sad calls home now & again are not horrid for me, as she has always talked, but she really wants to figure out how to make it better "here" and not feel envious of so many of her friends who are together at another school.</p>

<p>I think the exercise comments are very true too, how can an athletic guy (can he join any club teams?) make any rational decisions about life when he is not even able to stay in shape, his whole outlook would have been skewed during that time, he has to give it all a fresh look from the time of full recovery forward!</p>

51

<p>Garland, a thank you from Virginia to NJ. May I add that my spouse is NJ born and bred. I could entertain you with the faux pas remarks that our southern neighbors say in our hearing all the time re NJ, but I wouldn't surprise you I bet.</p>

<p>mkm56, I think the fact that premed is a different freshman/sophomore challenge is worthy of discussion and has bearing. If you are in courses and labs with largely with science/math gifted people who are anxious, it can skew things..especially if you are perfectionistic. Many teachers present this way as well. (Your son seems very tough minded to have done so well under such physical adversity.) And they are all at the same starting line socially..adrift and looking at a few hundred of their peers daily wondering where their home team is going to be. Which table? Which hall? Which party? Which club? Which major? My S is at Duke and reports that he hates the atmosphere of his labs etc and the curves are somewhere to the right of brutal. He is not willing to stay in his room and study 24/7 and is not a genius, although he is now acquainted with quite a few! Quite a shock to see close to best effort just hit the Mean. But I blow off his monolithic statements about premeds as anxiety combined with immature freshmen viewpoints. Many premeds will eventually just do the 11 courses and emerge as butterflies in other departments like psychology, public policy and the arts. Many premeds will be club leaders, writers and doing great service hours in the community and running intramurals. I think freshmen are more vulnerable to seeing peers with labels instead of as "emerging individuals." I have to say that at Duke I see a lot of young people that I think are just discovering their social identities..which involves a few wrong turns and awkward transitions for all. Sounds like your son is stubborn about doing any ECs at the moment, but he is also a very strong person. I don't really buy that there is no time for an EC, but I bet he has not fully recovered his youthful verve after such an incredible semester with illness. Next year he may surprise you with a burst of energy and adrenalin that fuels his social life. If he can make it through till sophomore fall, that is when I think many freshman clicques that may be a turnoff for him at the moment simply melt away and people are open again to making totally new social connections. I wonder about intramurals for him--their outing club is big, too and the NC mountains are fabulous.. and totally agree that a semester soon that is liberal artsy is going to put him around another type of student and be very well....liberating. There are many ways to get the premed requirements done. Wake has some excellent faculty, and you have an exceptional student. It is unusual to have a son that will call to chat often about day to day things (I settled for a long visit once a week.) It seems to me that his venting to you is a sign that you have long been a place where he sought perspective and you are not replaced yet. You are a trusted ear. It may be that he is having some happier hours than you hear about, too, since our kids often save up only their anxieties for parents. It is not unusual at all to find that dating and friendship building is a crooked highway for freshmen..but once that core group of friends is identified, the risks and ups and downs become more bearable. When I look back, I think most of my lifelong friends came the second or third year in college while freshman year was a blur of strange and sometimes misguided attachments and misteps.</p>

52

<p>To focus on a small segment of this thread: if, amongst all the real issues your son has faced, there is in fact a fit problem with Wake. This is just a thought. My D is at Princeton and actually went through all those three categories that your son mentioned in a discussion with me. But she said there's a 4th category, the really smart interesting kids who are regular. Wake is a more conservative rich kid school and its athletes are pretty high profile, at least for basketball, so may not be in your Ss academic cohort. The regular, smart, non-snobby, but socially focused kids may be a little harder to find at Wake than at other places. My D has found them at the newspaper, and amongst the athletes, actually, as Princeton can't accept the extreme high performing athletes unless they meet certain academic criteria . Any chance your S would like to get involved at the school paper? It does tend to attract that middle crowd. I know it's a dreaded EC, but there's always the production aspect if he doesn't want to write, and newspapers almost always need help and work crazy hours too...</p>

<p>BTW, my D resisted the newspaper. I kept urging her, because she did it in high school and loved it. Now she tells me she is so glad I did:). Phew, kudos for nagging, that's a first...</p>

53

<p>It is not necessary to belong to one of the major types at your school to be happy. 3 to 5 people on your wavelength could be enough. I agree with all posters --encourage him to try activities for meeting kids he can relate to. Because he's happy academically, I'd encourage him to stick it out .</p>

54

<p>Everything I could think of to say has been said, with one exception. Your original post speaks in terms of the prestige factor in getting into grad school. </p>

<p>I have read a number of people on CC say that undergrad college is not a big factor in getting into grad schools. Before an unhappy person should stay at a college for prestige, I would suggest checking to see if prestige has such an effect. The folks on the medical school board should know this one.</p>

55

<p>Pyewacket, for some people 3-5 isn't sufficient. The type of person who likes a crowd, a group to lead, will want more people who share some core traits.</p>

56

<p>
[quote]
And some schools (including some of the most famous premed factories) even allow you to go through the whole pre-med curriculum and then refuse to provide anything in the way of recommendations from the med-school committee.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I've heard that as well. God forbid. :(</p>

57

<p>Thanks for all the input. As an update, just had a call from son who spent an hour with one of his profs "just talking". He sounded so upbeat and enthusiastic. I pointed this out to him and asked him not to answer me, but to take note of this feeling and ask himself if he is willing to give up these moments because social life is lacking (at least at this point). It seems one almost has to point out the positives because tomorrow they will be forgotten and your kid is back to remembering just the negatives.</p>

58

<p>I'm so glad you got a "happy" phone call, I bet you slept much better last night! I think your S is showing all the signs of settling in and I'm very optimistic that your story will have a happy ending. Good luck.</p>

59

<p>Seems like I am reading the same letter that I received from my son some ten years ago in February (which all college people know is a letdown time for Freshman) We were thousands of miles away and I didn't want him to be unhappy at this prestigious place he had so wanted to get into just a short time before. I remember scouring college web sites at midnite looking for a place "more like him" , a sensitive, intelligent kid not consumed by his peers ' competitiveness.</p>

<p>So, what happened? I told him, all the while worrying, that no transfer school would look at him unless he could compile a very acceptable record, so he should hang in there and get that record in order for him to transfer if that's how he felt, but that a record couldn't truthfully be established in less than a year, better if two.</p>

<p>After his senior year at this college, where he did decide to stay, he told me his favorite year was his freshman year! Could have killed him when he said that, I told him "Didn't you know how you made us worry?" He said the dorm years were the times you made the most friends. Now when I fret over my high school senior daughter not being able to make a good fit somewhere next year HE counsels me......he says, and I think he's right, you have to find two or three people there who are like you, turn them into friends, and then you really don't have to care about anyone else. One of those two or three he found will be the best man at his wedding soon. Takes a lot of fortitude to let them suffer, work things out, and grow.</p>

60

<p>I went to an Ivy my first year (Columbia) and also found that it just wasn't the right fit. I transferred to another Ivy (Dartmouth) and found the students to be much more cooperative, friendly, and happy - more my type of people. People advised me to stay another year at Columbia to give it a chance, but I am so glad I left after my first year. It was so easy to assimilate as a sophomore, and the experience was night and day compare to my previous school. Most people don't even know I was a transfer. I actually went back to Columbia for grad school, and seeing undergrad life there again I thank the stars I transferred. I think it was the best decision I have ever made in my life. I think there are going to be many top colleges (Brown for example) that he might enjoy very much. Its worth considering.</p>