How much should we be involved in our daughter's college choice?

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi, As it is still October, we're still in the midst of applications with our senior daughter. She has already applied and been accepted to two schools-one an out-of-state Big Ten school that has offered her a $6000 per year merit scholarship and one a state school that is ranked lower academically than any of the other schools that she is considering. She is planning on applying to 4 other schools (in-state and out-of-state), 2 of which are a pretty sure admissions bet and 2 "reach" schools.</p>

<p>Herein lies the problem: Her favorite of all the schools that she is applying to is the lowest-ranked state school (also has a reputation of one of the top party schools in the nation!) She loves the campus and a number of the kids from her high-school who are freshmen there now. My husband, (a college professor) is absolutely going nuts that our very bright but not highly academically motivated daughter would consider attending this particular school over the Big Ten school offering the scholarship or some of the other schools that she is applying to.</p>

<p>Our daughter is a very bright kid, but young for her class and has never been hugely academically driven. She has never opted to take ANY AP or Honors courses because she didn't have any desire to. She does have decent high-school grades and did very well on the SAT and ACT tests. She is very involved in several community services activities that she would rather pour her heart and soul into than spend the time studying.</p>

<p>For those of you with experience in guiding a child through the college selection process, I need advice on how involved my husband and I should be.
Should we let her choose the lowest-academically ranked school that she gets accepted to? Our daughter is very stubborn and strong-willed, and we fear that if we "force" her to go somewhere else, she will not allow herself to accept and enjoy the experience. Any advice from experienced parents will be greatly appreciated! Thanks.</p>

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<p>I think you can guide her but the final decision should be hers as it is her education and her life. This is one of her first big "adult" decisions. If a kid is not invested in this decision and the ultimate choice, then it would affect her when she was at whichever school she had not picked. She may not accept the school or be motivated to be there. </p>

<p>Have you visited these other school options? I would try to visit them and ask her to keep an open mind before making this big decision. Tell her that you will support whichever decision she reaches but you don't want her to reach it in haste or because so and so attends. You want her to be able to articulate why that choice is more fitting for her than some other choice would be. Ask her to list what is appealing about that school and do the same for the others and compare the differences in order to really think about which one would be best. For instance, you can then be part of that discussion and ask about the state school....will she like the level of challenge or the academic orientation/motivation of her fellow students? In some ways, I am thinking in your D's case that even if she is brighter than the typical student there, her level of motivation or desire for challenge might be on par. It sounds like she is very bright but up until now has not opted to challenge herself with harder courses and is not as motivated about school as she is other activities. So, maybe this school IS fitting. Hard to say. But I would have her really fully explore each of her options and visit them and then be able to discuss the pros/cons of each option. IF she then comes full circle to the state school being her preferred option, you will know that she explored the others and compared/contrasted and then articulated her reasons. It would not be a rash decision or necessarily based on her friends. I then would support whatever school she chose. I'd just want to know that that level of exploration and looking openly at all options had happened and that she was able to truly explain why this option was most fitting. Then go with it. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>PS, I will add from personal experience that we did not care which schools our children picked. We were involved in their process and helping them get through it and discussed their thoughts about each school but never tried to influence which one to pick. Just discussed each step and the options. In all honesty, if you had asked me in April which one I wanted them to go to, I am not sure I could have answered. I just did not pick one in my mind. I was really behind whichever one they said they wanted. I wanted them to go to one they would be happy about. In the end, they are both extremely happy with their choices. And truly, pretty much any school on their list was fine by me.</p>

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<p>We cannot tell you what to do for your daughter - your post shows that you are thinking through all the alternatives and outcomes, with much love, support, and wisdom. I do think though the answer is written in your description of your daughter - she is not academically driven, loves community service and is strong-willed.</p>

<p>Instead of focusing of the negatives of the state school, I would talk to her about what she is going to do there, what she is going to study, how much she is going to party. Is she interested in a helping profession? If so, are there programs for that at the school she chooses? How about the finances? If finances are a problem (and in this case perhaps if they aren't truly a problem), it is quite reasonable to expect her to provide all or part of the $6000 she is giving up.
What I am saying is have her examine the school objectively, and be sure it serves her career goals, and that there are more reasons to attend other than that her friends are there. I would compare community service opportunities and that emphasis among her schools. I would insist that she put off a final decision as long as possible - if she needs to pay early housing deposits at some of these schools, consider that an investment, unless the amounts are huge.</p>

<p>Frankly, she will probably get an excellent education even at the lower ranked school. If she isn't "academically inclined", the reaches might not be her best choice. If she "grows beyond" the offerings of her final choice, transferring may be an option. I would try to delay her choice, because she may well significantly grow and change over this year. If she were my son (who sounds just like her), my biggest concern would be too much partying, wherever s/he ends up - I would discuss expectations, setting some is not unreasonable.</p>

<p>We spend a lot of time talking about college here, naturally, but back in the real world, we need to spend even more time with our kids talking about careers and the future - that's really what this is about.</p>

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<p>I think that she should continue with the rest of the applications to expand her choices. Wait until April to make a decision. Between now and April, she will have plenty of growing and maturing. At that point, you can have a discussion of the pros and cons of each school from her perspective. If she is still adamant about attending her current #1 choice, you will need to accept it with good grace. But there is no sense forcing the issue unless there is pressure to make an early decision.</p>

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<p>I agree with both soozie and cangel. Putting thoughts on paper will make a subjective and emotional decision more objective. I'm a big fan of identifying needs and expectations and then listing the pros and cons of each institution as related to them.</p>

<p>Attending a school where one would have built-in friends from HS is very appealing to kids. You say that she's young for her class, so she might feel less anxious about going off to college where she already knows some of the students. Has she visited most or all of the schools to which she's applied. Sometimes visiting a school and meeting like-minded students reassures applicants that they'll do just fine there.</p>

<p>Also, what about taking a year off? She could spend the year devoting "her heart and soul" to her favorite community service activities while she contemplates the careers and future to which cangel refers.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of your posts so far. They articulate what I have felt in my heart--that we need to help her work through the decision, but that it ultimately is up to her. </p>

<p>In answer to some of your questions, yes, we have visited all of the campuses that she is applying to.</p>

<p>I really like the advice about continuing with the application process and waiting until April to make a decision. Hopefully with some growth and maturity over the next few months, she will be able to make the best decision for herself.</p>

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<p>I agree that she should wait and not decide anything right now. Too soon. But merely waiting and hoping growth or maturity will make a difference is not enough. I think you still have to have ongoing discussions about what she wants in a college and listing/articulating what is appealing about each school on her list and what are the differences and often when you list these and compare, certain thoughts emerge and it appears that some might be a better fit than others and so on. As well, I think if your D has a clear first choice, she should be able to articulate specific reasons why that school is favored over the others (and not just friends....you can even discuss the friend issue and what is involved in starting college with new sets of friends, etc.). I'd want to have these conversations as to her WHY X school. The reasons should be specific and she should be able to contrast those reasons with attributes about her other options. These discussions can be ongoing. Listing the reasons for each school on paper also helps. Passage of time helps. Second visits or overnights help. So I still think you need to do this and that is where your role comes in....not persuading her to go to any particular school but making sure she has fully explored each option and has kept an open mind so that when she DOES pick a school, it was based on lots of information and analysis of what she wants for a college and her future and which place is best suited to as many of her college criteria as possible. After ALL of that has happened and if the state school emerges as the best match for her preferences, then you can feel more behind her going because a lot of thought will have gone into the decision and she will have looked openly at all options before coming to the decision. Going where your friends are is not really what picking a college and a future is about. I'd be discussing all of that in the coming months. The discussions would be to get her to think about these issues and all the schools, and asking her questions but not telling her where to go.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Depending on the state school, however, she may need to place a housing deposit now to guarantee housing. Some public universities have very little dorm space. If that's the case, she will be able to withdraw the housing deposit in the spring, with a loss of only a small amount of $. Check the paperwork that she either has gotten or will shortly get from the college.</p>

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<p>The issue of growing out of the school can also be looked at. How is the honors program? Are there any departments which are exceptional at the graduate level, in case she does grow out of the school overall academically but wants to keep her social network so can just accelerate at the departmental level.</p>

<p>And definitely no need to decide now unless there is a serious financial commitment. </p>

<p>I agree you have to let the kid choose if the set of choices contains no absolutely horrible option, just to make sure they can never blame any setbacks on you:).</p>

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<p>Our daughter is away and we are in contact through emails or telephone. We are involved as an advisor, but our daugher makes her all decisions.</p>

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<p>our very bright but not highly academically motivated >></p>

<p>To me, this is the most important line in your post. </p>

<p>I also have a daughter who is very bright but not terribly ambitious academically. She works hard but doesn't do well under extremely stressful academic situations and sometimes appears unmotivated or simply unable to give the little extra effort that would make the difference between a B+ and an A-.</p>

<p>Initially, I was hoping that her list would fall towards schools where she'd be surrounded by more academically ambitious and motivated peers. The thinking of many parents seems to be that that type of situation will force less motivated kids into becomming more motivated or that you can only get a good education at a school where you're surrounded by equals or superiors. </p>

<p>That certainly may be true for many kids. However, I started thinking about my daughter's experiences in a very competitive high school where she has PLENTY of highly ambitious and motivated peers. It hasn't made HER more motivated, it's only made her more stressed out and much less secure about her academic talents and abilities. </p>

<p>She's ended up with a list of schools that are mostly match schools for her. Her top choice at the moment is probably a school where she will be towards the top of the pack. I've decided that, at least for her individually given her personality, that may not be a bad thing. She will get a good education there (or at any of the schools on her list to be honest) and have a chance to be a star. That is not a bad thing at all for some kids. </p>

<p>So, I will let her choose the school where she feels she'll be happiest. It may not be the school I would choose for her, but I'm not the one who will be living the experience day to day.</p>

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<p>I agree with the "wait till April" advice, and I also think you should insist she have overnight visits at the schools with which she is less familiar before ruling them out. </p>

<p>Sometimes kids really know what they want in a healthy way. Other times kids make knee-jerk choices for poorly-thought-out reasons and it is our job to keep them from being too hasty.</p>

<p>My D's entire concept changed radically from October to April. We pushed her HARD to consider schools further from home, and she wound up falling for the idea. </p>

<p>Initially, she wanted to be near home and I believe this was a knee-jerk response to soften the blow of change that she sensed was coming. Somehow, she thought, if she stayed nearby, there would be less loss and less change; friendships would be preserved; everything would still be familiar. </p>

<p>Gradually she realized that even 10 miles from home, all her OTHER friends would be going, changing, growing-- so her world would change anyway! Once that hurdle was passed, she was more of a mind to not miss out on her own adventure and she opened up to more distant schools.</p>

<p>Also in my D's case there was a boy issue-- does you D have a local BF at the college in question, or planning to go there? It would not surprise me.</p>

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<p>It's important to keep in mind that the kids/parents here on college confidential are all much more open to the idea of going far from home than the population at large. The vast majority of kids stay close from home and it's easy to forget that. I have seen statistics that something like 75% of kids go to college within 350 miles of home. I have been working with five kids from our town on college applications over the past few weeks: none wants to go more than 100 miles from home, and several are very insistent that they want to stay IN TOWN, no matter how supportive their parents might be about the idea of their going farther. Really, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a kid choosing to stay close to home, even if it limits their college options somewhat.</p>

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<p>I echo what a lot of others have said--it's her call. I don't know which in-state university you're referring to, but most state u's can/do provide students with a very good education if they want to get one. If your daughter is bright but doesn't necessarily want to extend herself, going to the higher ranked school may motivate her or it may overwhelm her and cause her to resent the push to the school she's at. That's a pretty big gamble, and you're not talking about the difference between a top 25 school and a community college--you're talking about, say, the difference between a top 25 school (if you're talking about Michigan or Northwestern in the Big Ten) and a top 100 state school. If she's not comfortable at any school other than her choice, it's just not worth it.</p>

<p>College should teach kids how to grow academically and socially. You can advise her on what you think is best academically, but where she develops in other areas is something only she can decide.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>anniery, when our D first started looking at different colleges we told her;</p>

<p>Do your research. Find a college where you will be happy and will take advantage of their resources to grow. If that's ___ Community College, fine. If that's University of Beijing, fine. We might have to take out a second mortgage and we'll miss you like heck, but we'll deal with it.</p>

<p>She makes the decisions. We write the checks. That's our word, and we're sticking with it.</p>

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<p>I am finding that my kids' approach to the college search and application process is not very different than their approach to everything up to this point. My adventuresome, always-looking-over- the-next-hill daughter dived into the seach process eagerly and explored each school fully before applying, and knew from the outset that she wanted to leave the state (west coast, even), hopefully to attend a challenging and exciting college. My son, on the other hand, is slowly and without great urgency looking at schools with a very discriminating eye - so far has found one or two he might enjoy :rolleyes:
more than the local state Us, but he's not sure they're worth it. He's very confident that wherever he goes he'll be happy, and in no great rush to make up his mind or even to prioritize his choices. This is pretty much how they have behaved their entire lives. They both will listen (sort of) to my H's and my opinions, but they come to their own conclusions - one through a thorough vetting process, and the other seemingly by osmosis.<br>
Our job, I think, is to provide them with the opportunity to visit , which you have done, and to continue to ask them questions that might help them in the process, but they really need to lead the way and find what they feel is best for them. I've always trusted my kids to know what's best for them, and they usually have not disappointed me in that regard.</p>

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<p>Anniery, it sounds like your daughter is choosing the best fit college for her -- her outward focus and lack of desire to challenge herself to the max academically is a good indication that she could easily get into trouble academically if she chose a college that is too demanding. Your husband's desire to see her in a tougher school might mean that in a year or two he would be the parent of a college dropout. </p>

<p>The two areas where I think parents can and should exert control is (a) cost, and (b) reasonable expectations as to student behavior/responsibility on campus. The cost factor is easy - you decided how much you are willing to pay for, then tell the kid -- and she can make up her mind from there. </p>

<p>The behavior/responsibility thing is somewhat more difficult, because you aren't there to monitor and parents and their kids can have different views as to what is reasonable. But you can still make it clear at the outset that you expect her to keep up with her studies, and make your expectations clear enough if you fear that your d. is going to go overboard with the partying. But if she keeps up her community service interest, I doubt that will become a big problem -- I found when I was in college that it was the volunteer work that really was what took me out of the party scene, in part because it really got me off-campus doing something productive and interesting, and connected with the local community. </p>

<p>Finally, be aware that your daughter may change her views as the year wears on, especially as it gets closer to decision time. Since you say that she is strong-willed and stubborn, I think that anything you or her father does to push her one way is only going to cause her to dig in her heels. So relax -- enjoy the process. Your daughter is very, very fortunate that she will be happy to attend a college she is sure to get into, and it really makes good sense for her to defer her final decision until she knows for certain which colleges have accepted her. Part of her focus may be simply a practical sense that she should not count her chickens before they hatch - she may be deliberately excluding serious consideration of her reach colleges simply out of the realization that she may not get in. If the situation changes -- if she is accepted - you may see a reordering of priorities.</p>

<p>As long as she is planning to apply to other colleges, she isn't closing any doors -- so I would say the best thing that you could do as a parent is to keep your mouth shut about which school you like best, but listen to what she says she wants in a school. You can do your own research and if she says she likes school A. because it offers X.... you might find out that school B. and school C offer an even better X factor and help guide your daughter toward discovering that.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Her favorite of all the schools that she is applying to is the lowest-ranked state school (also has a reputation of one of the top party schools in the nation!) She loves the campus and a number of the kids from her high-school who are freshmen there now.

[/quote]
I'd start by having an open discussion with her about why she prefers this school. What does she think will happen there that won't happen at other schools, or will be better at this one than others? It's a fine line to walk, you don't want to come across as judgemental or forcing her to prove she's right or knows everything. Ideally it would be a conversation in which you both share ideas and thoughts about what will happen at college, hers based perhaps more on hopes and yours based on what you've seen.</p>

<p>The part that concerns me a bit is that she may be tied to the group from her HS who are at her 1st-choice college. I sense some attempt to hold on to the past and stop change, which as SBMom wrote is impossible. If this comes out in your talks this may help her open up to other experiences. Other things may come up in your talks, too. I don't see this as an attempt to try to sway her or convince her she's wrong; let her reach her own decisions, but try to bring assumptions out to the light so she can think about them.</p>

<p>As for the caliber of school, I must cast my vote with your husband. Its not so much the academic challenge that concerns me, though, but the kids the school attracts. While its still controversial, quite a lot of evidence shows that peers have more influence on kids than parents. You can see this play out in a college setting. If the kids at school A are planning for their future and taking the steps to lay the foundation, its something in the air and many others will be brought along because that's what all their friends are doing. At a school that is party U and seen as a 4-year vacation from the real world, a motivated student can still do fine but only if they possess a strong inner drive and have a firm goal in mind. Most kids will do what their friends do.</p>

<p>there is one other thing I want to mention that hasn't been brought up yet. You write
[quote]
Our daughter is a very bright kid, but *young for her class...<a href="emphasis%20mine">/i</a>

[/quote]
Was she advanced a grade (or two!) when she was young? Many schools have a short-sighted policy of advancing bright kids in elementary school. As they grow older they are with peers who are a year+ older, which makes a BIG difference emotionally and maturity-wise in teenagers. Could this be a contributing factor here?</p>

<p>There is a solution, and in fact you bring it up in the post. You write "She is very involved in several community services activities that she would rather pour her heart and soul into than spend the time studying." How about a year off before college? The question of what do do if she takes a gap year is solved. She could continue these activities, and maybe even do them in a different city. A year off would let her mature. There is a risk she'd decide she doesn't need college at all, but on the flip side she might realize she could better accomplish her goals WITH a college degree, and be more inspired than ever to get it.</p>

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<p>ANNIERY - you have gotten some great advice - just my 2cents here - take out the party school piece as every school has some sort of party atmospere so leave it out of the equation - unless she is going to a convent.</p>

<p>You have ''allowed'' her to apply to these schools - let her be the one to make the choice - for where she is comfortable and will be happy - after ALL the acceptances are on the table - have "the" talk about the pros and cons of each choice she made (and include and consider her comfort zone for each school accepted to as well) - and then..... you can advise her - you can support her - but most of all - accept the choice that she should ultimately make - it is her life and future - let her start now to start to become the wonderful adult she will eventually be. </p>

<p>I think one thing that some parents tend to do is to make the choice for their kiddos - tho it is not the parent who must leave the home - attend the school - be successful - be happy - it is the student who must experience all of these. Many parents feel an incredible need for their kiddos to attend the more 'elite' or educationally acceptable school - tho it well could be for the wrong reasons.</p>

<p>Good Luck to all of you - the right college will happen for your DD - it sure sounds as tho she has some good choices ahead of her - let it be that - HERS.</p>

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<p>These are wonderful responses and insights. Obviously, we haven't done this before, so we need all the advice we can get. Our daughter was not advanced a grade, she is a late June birthday and so won't be 18 until after she graduates whereas a lot of her friends (particularly the boys) are already 18. She's just very young for her class and probably not as mature as a lot of her classmates.</p>

<p>The last poster hit the nail on the head with the concerns that my husband has about an unmotivated kid being surrounded by other unmotivated kids. It's a fine line between where she will be happy and where she will succeed with her plans for the future. And, she may go to the state school and surprise both of us because she'll be motivated by being one of the better students there! We will hope that that is the case if that's where she decides to go!</p>

<p>I'm going to print all of these responses out so that I can keep referring to them as the year goes on and the decision date gets closer!</p>