How Should I Help Her?

Parents Forum
1

<p>I am having a couple of issues with my DD and have explained the situation below.</p>

<p>My daughter is 21 and currently attending a Community College in California. She is majoring in Political Science and wants to go to Law School.
DD is considering UCR, UCLA, UCSC,UCSB, Smith College, Scripps College and several other Liberal Arts Colleges out of state. Her GPA is 3.08 at this time. </p>

<p>She doesn't have the grades to get into any top colleges as a transfer and in order to transfer in Fall 2006 from her current school, she has to take 8 units this summer, 20 in the fall, 6 during the Winter Intersession and 18 in the spring. My ex-husband recently died (Father to my DS and DD) and my DD withdrew from quite a few of her courses this semester and isn't emotionally stable right now. I feel that her planned courseload is too ambitious. I want her to finish all of the Community College courses needed for transfer, but not at the cost of all DD's spare time and effort. How can I encourage her to slow down? </p>

<p>She has had many emotional issues her entire life, finds it difficult to make friends, has very loud emotional outbursts and has caused much emotional turmoil to our family. In her teen years she was placed in a Group Home and made a ward of the state due to her violent and self-destructive behavior. Since she was in the custody of the State until her eighteenth birthday, I am not responsible for paying for her education. She is considered an Independent Student for the purposes of Financial Aid and is currently attending college using Financial Aid. </p>

<p>When DD's Group Home forced her to leave after she graduated from High School, I refused to allow her to move into my home. She couldn't find a place to live and joined the California Conservation Corps in Lake Tahoe. I did not want her so far away from me and asked her to return to Southern California, yet also informed her that she could not live with me. She told me that "Where would I live? I have a roof over my head here in Tahoe and I'm saving money for college. Please leave me alone." She remained in Lake Tahoe from August 2002 until December 2004.</p>

<p>DD began taking classes at the local Community College in September 2004, as she promised. She paid for the fees with a scholarship given to her by the Conservation Corps completing their 1 year program.
The Conservation Corps kicked DD out in November 2004 when she became too emotionally unstable to work and she became homeless. A friend of hers who operated a housing program for the Homeless in Lake Tahoe kindly took her in and admitted her to the program. They provided DD with a motel room to live in, tokens for the bus system and a food allowance. DD continued to attend college while she looked for a job. She found a job working graveyard at a local casino as a Telephone Operator in May 2004. In June 2004, DD moved into her own apartment and signed a 6 month lease. Her lease was not renewed and she was unable to find a suitable place to live in Tahoe. I decided to allow her to live with me in late December 2004 since she had no other place to go. </p>

<p>I want her to transfer as quickly as possible, but I cannot and will not pay for her education with all of the trouble that she has caused our family in the past. Since she has sensed that I do not approve of her major and that I will not finance her education (she is a talented writer and I want her to pursue that. She says that "writing is hard when everyone is pushing you to do it. It takes the fun out of it" and no longer writes stories as she used to as a young teenager.) DD has begun to look for loans and says that she will work and look for scholarships to finance the rest of her education. I want her to use grants to pay for college and not take out loans. She says that in order to attend a Private College, she needs to take out a loan, since grants do not cover everything. </p>

<p>I was under the assumption that given her experiences and the fact that we are African-American would guarantee her educational costs being covered without her having to take out a loan. </p>

<p>DD refuses to listen to me and insists: "Mom, there's no way that I'll get $30,000 in grants. Are you crazy? School isn't free!" </p>

<p>If she changes her major to English or Creative Writing, I will reconsider paying for a portion of her education. DD intends to become a lawyer working on behalf of children in Group Homes and Foster Homes. I do not want her to have anything to do with what happened in her life before and feel that this career is a bad choice for her. </p>

<p>Can you offer any suggestions as to talk my DD out of her intentions? Where should I go from here?</p>

2

<p>DD intends to become a lawyer working on behalf of children in Group Homes and Foster Homes
Good for her
She sounds very motivated, I wish her luck, it sounds like she is going to need it.</p>

3

<p>If you refuse to help her pay for school and only house her because she would literally be homeless otherwise, I dont think you really have any right to bother her about her plans. It seems like the support she receives from you is minimal, so I doubt your opinion means much to her. At least I know thats what I would think if my parents thought of me like you think of her. </p>

<p>As emeraldkitty said, her plans seem very ambitious, and I hope she is happy. Dont you think that in a career like this she might be HELPING herself get over her past? Helping people get out of situations like the one she was in could be very therapeutic. Who better to help people than someone who has life experience like that?</p>

<p>Also, it is ignorant to think that school would be free because of your race and life experience. Everyone has to take out loans, unless your parents pay for it (which youre not) or you have an amazing academic record that earns you lots of merit scholarships (which it seems like is not the case with your DD). She can probably get some scholarships, but there will definitely be loans involved. </p>

<p>I think the best way you can help her is by either offering more emotional/financial support (in which case she should respect your opinions) or by realizing that at this point all youre giving her is grief. </p>

<p>Im sorry if this came out as mean, I did not intend it to be that way. Your situation just strikes very close to home for me and I feel strongly. </p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
I was under the assumption that given her experiences and the fact that we are African-American would guarantee her educational costs being covered without her having to take out a loan.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are you serious????</p>

5

<p>Because of your daughter's history of serious emotional problems, I think that your situation goes beyond what people on this board are capable of giving useful advice to. </p>

<p>Consequently, I suggest that you seek help from a licensed mental health therapist who is experienced with helping parents coping with difficulties with their adult children.</p>

<p>I also strongly suggest that you contact the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, which provides help for both mentally ill people and their families: <a href="http://www.nami.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nami.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>They also have discussion boards, including for family members.
<a href="http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=Communities%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=Communities&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The one thing that I do feel competent to advise you on is that your assumption is wrong that being African American means your daughter will automatically get major aid. That simply isn't true. Some colleges have some funds earmarked for African Americans, but not every black person gets those funds. Your daughter's history of dropping out of college and having other problems, too, may make it difficult for her to get scholarships regardless of her race. It also tends to be easier for students of all races to get aid when they are entering college right after high school, not transferring in at a more mature age.</p>

<p>I am African American, and am fairly knowledgeable about what's available.</p>

6

<p>I don't think that she had dropped out of school. She withdrew from some of her courses when her father died, but I think that is expected and it didn't sound like she completely withdrew.
My daughter flunked her ochem class ( when she should have withdrawn) when she had a stressful time.
I completely dropped out of my classes when a friend who I carpooled with died.
I am wondering if she has had a diagnosis ever been treated for depression anxiety, etc. even ODD. when there is something so awry in a child, I wonder about the rest of the family, it is common for one member to manifest dysfunction, but it isnt' common for the cause to begin and end with that member. They are just the canary.
I think that if she wants to pursue her dreams of going into the legal profession then I hope she has others who recognize her stamina to try and continue her education despite her very tumultous life.
even if you were helping to pay for her education, you should have little say over what she majors in ( and in other families, students are deemed financially dependent till 24, married or with a dependent of their own)
Most people also graduate with loans,it isn't a hardship and most pay them back in the allotted time. When it is a choice of taking loans and being able to attend school, or not taking them and not being able to attend, education should win out</p>

7

<p>I also wanted to add that a 3.00 in college classes is pretty good, and will be given more weight than if she was a high school student applying with a 3.00.
Schools like Smith, Scripps, Mills, and Holyoke are great support systems for young women and are constantly looking for students who will add to the diversity and giving them financial incentive to do so. I wouldn't rule them out.</p>

8

<p>I think it is a mistake to simply rule out a position that involves working with troubled youth. I tutor at a youth shelter three times per week and I have found that experience to be beneficial for me, as well as, hopefully, for the students. I have gotten to know many of the the kids very well. Having an understanding of their problems and backgrounds has helped me think about, and gain a better perspective on, my own. </p>

<p>It is well-known that people in the helping professions often have experienced or observed problems similiar to those they are addressing with their clients. First-hand knowledge of these issues helps them in their work, and also can help them resolve their own issues.</p>

9

<p>Congratulations to your daughter for getting a 3.0 average in community college with such a rocky background. And congratulations to you as well for making some steps towards reconciliation and being concerned about her future. Please do not feel that these are small accomplishments. Having had two kids as "foster kids", I can tell you that it is rough going for families like ours. And NSM is absolutely right in saying that the experiences on these boards are really inadequate to address all of the issues you are facing. You do need to get some help from someone knowledgeable about the particulars of your situation and help you and your D get this tenous relationship on stronger ground, and keep this successful academic trend rolling.</p>

<p>I do want to tell you that my very strong opinon is that it is NOT important what your D's major is. It is more important that she grows up, gets her emotions under control, gets some direction, and learns to finish a task such as a college program with good quality results. It may be early for her to pick a profession, and just completing a program is a big step for kids, any kid, and for someone with her issues, even more of an accomplishment. </p>

<p>Given her issues, a small private school that can offer 100% of her need may be a better deal than the UCs where she has no place to live. Though it is generous of you and a big step for your relationship that she is living with you, going to a school like Smith that has a program for women like her (Ada Comstack Scholarship ?), may be a better alternative. There is a special scholarship for these situations. Many times local schools gap to the point where there is no way a student can live on campus, and I think she needs to immerse herself in an academic environment since things are still fragile at home. Even without the history, we would have a tough time keeping our kids at home after they turned 18. My nephew did not straighten out until we did send him to college--boarding rather than commuting. Though being African American is not going to make her automatically eligible for scholarship money, there are many private schools that are interested in African American students and that can be to her benefit. If you want to help her put a college list together, get a copy of the USN:&WR and look for schools that give 100% of need since that is what she will need. I do agree with you that she should not rush through community college as quality of her work and her grades will be very important to her transfer prospects. I would leave her alone about the Political Science major--no big deal if she does well in it. That is the important part, doing well.</p>

<p>Good luck to both of you, and, again, you both have come a long way.</p>

10

<p>I totally agree with Northstarmom & Jamimom. I wish you & your daughter luck with this situation.</p>

11

<p>I sympathize with your struggles with your daughter. My mother went through a very similar scenario with my younger sister and I know how stressful it was for my mom to try to find the right balance between helping my sister and staying safe and sane without getting sucked into the chaotic vortex that seems to surround everything my sister does. My sister did eventually earn her degree, but not without many starts and stops along the way. Unfortunately, she never has found a stable point in terms of her relationship with her family and the world in general. Watching someone like this bump through life is incredibly difficult. I hope you have a good support system yourself to help you - you have my heartfelt respect for all that you have been through.</p>

<p>That said, Emerald mentioned a school that should be on your daughter's list: Mills College. They have a high percentage of older women students there, financial aid is good, and it is a small, supportive environment. </p>

<p>I would also suggest that you or your daughter carefully check out the mental health counseling services available at any school she considers transferring to - good support services can make a difference at times. </p>

<p>Sending hugs and hopeful thoughts to you and your daughter.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I want her to transfer as quickly as possible, but I cannot and will not pay for her education with all of the trouble that she has caused our family in the past.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think that there is a disconnect between what you want and what your daughter needs. Conceptually you understand why she does not need to load her self down with courses in order to transfer for fall 2006, but at the same time you want her to hurry up, get finished, and move out of your house. </p>

<p>She should not have to rush or load her self down with courses as she it is not mandatory transfer in fall 2006 as there will still be the opportunity to do so in fall 2007. If she is currently carrying a 3.08 GPA, then my advice would be that she continue to pace her self so that she can do well and increase her chances of being able to successfully transfer (remember the race is not always given to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but to the one who endures until the end). </p>

<p>Your daughter may want to load up with courses as a coping mechanism because if she is busy trying to do her school work she will not have the time or the space in her head to focus on what is really bothering her. For some it is a good thing because it forces them to move for ward with their given her history of emotional problems, I do not think that this is the best course for her because she will eventually crash and burn under the emotional weight. I also suggest that your daughter go to counseling to first of all deal with some of the stuff that she has been through in a constructive way (There are definitely some abandonment issues stemming from being placed in a group home away from the family and being ‘abandoned” by the loss of her father and these issues are part of why she does have problems developing healthy relationships). </p>

<p>In addition I think that you may need to attend counseling with her so that you can see how your role in all of this impacts her. Your daughter knows the path that she want s to take (working as a lawyer advocating for those in group homes and foster care) but you are negating what she wants to do by saying that you want her to do creative writing and on to of that stating that she does what you want her to do you will give her your financial support placing her on the do w n side of the power dynamic and in a lose-lose situation for her (this is a train wreck in the making). In the end, they dynamics of your relationship may have to change from you wanting to have control or being an enabler to achieving some level of interdependence where she can chart her own path with confidence but know that you will be supportive of her choice. Even if it there are bumps in road, it will still be a learning experience for her and it will be her choice to either curse the darkness or light a candle.</p>

<p>Jamimom has given some good suggestions as for your daughter looking into schools like Smith. She should also add Mount Holyoke and Bryn Mawr to the list as they are also single sex schools with nurturing environments that offer special programs and support for non-traditional students. </p>

<p>I hoe that every thing works out for your daughter.</p>

13

<p>As a writer, I can say that writing has to come from within and that someone nagging you about doing it is counterproductive.</p>

14

<p>I mentioned Mills to DD and she immediately went to work researching them on the net....</p>

<p>To answer your questions:</p>

<p>Yes, DD is bipolar, is ADHD and has Borderline Personality Disorder. She is not on meds because none of the ones available on the market have worked for her. From Ritalin to Wellbutrin to Depakote to Lithium and everywhere in between. We started her on meds when she was 12 along with weekly counseling sessions. She's seeing a MFCC on campus right now, but he doesn't seem to do much for her at all. I want DD to go back to the Psychologist that she was seeing before she left the Group Home.This woman helped DD so much and it was a shame that she was forced to stop seeing her when DD left for Lake Tahoe. DD made an appointment to see her next week, yet doesn't seemed thrilled with it. </p>

<p>I found out that DD wants to hurry with her classes at the CC for two reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>She wants to experience the "dorm thing". CC's in this part of the state do not have dorms and DD has always yearned for that kind of experience. I know that she doesn't enjoy sharing my bed or not having any space of her own to decorate or express herself. ( DD, DS and myself live in a 2 bedroom apartment. DS has his own room and DD sleeps in the bed with me.) </p></li>
<li><p>She feels inferior to her friends who are in top universities and some of whom will graduate with Bachelor's Degrees next spring. She's jealous, I guess you can say and wants to be on the same level as her peers.</p></li>
</ol>

15

<p>If she is going to be going to a private school, she doesn't really need to wait for a two year community college certificate does she?
Some of these schools might even be enrolling people in jan- and an on campus situation might be a lot more supportive than commuting.</p>

<p>Womens schools while they may seem intimidating also have a reputation for being very empowering, and because many high performing young women do choose a coed school, womens schools often have money and space for qualified students.</p>

16

<p>You're not going to go to college for free just because you're African American. You may get a boost because of it, but it's not going to come near to covering you. Someone that I know that is African American just finished his first year at Harvard. He got scholarships (Harvard didn't cover his tuition just because he was African American), but he worked his tail off to earn them by taking the most difficult courseload, overcoming obstacles, etc. He is an awesome person and deserves every penny he received. However, I think he still has to pay for some of his education. </p>

<p>Also, if she really will enjoy the job that she's working towards, why crush her dreams? Heck, she's going to be a lawyer! A LAWYER! You should be proud of that, and support her efforts. I'd personally have a heart attack if I was forcced into doing something that I wouldn't enjoy. For example, my dad completely hates the University of Michigan (being a Michigan State person himself ;)), but unfortunately for him, that's exactly where I'm headed next fall. I'd probably break down in tears if I was forced to attend a school just because that's where my parents wanted or didn't want me to go. It's my life, and I'm glad he respects my decision (even though he takes up every opportunity to tease or annoy me about it). Thankfully, he's also helping me pay for my education.</p>

17

<p>Mills may still be willing to look at a transfer application for the fall as they still had openings just a few weeks ago. They would also probably welcome an application for the spring semester. If Mills is of interest to her, and moving quickly wouldn't upset her, she might give them a call. </p>

<p>Mills is the one school that almost (almost) made my daughter consider an all-female school. The campus is beautiful and, even on a Saturday, two faculty members saw us walking around, introduced themselves and answered our questions. Several reasons why it may be a fit for your daughter: the student body is extremely diverse in terms of age and race, and students and faculty tend to be very interested in political and social issues. (They even have some great creative writing classes. :) ) I noticed on their website that they do have some articulation agreements with some bay area community colleges, which suggests to me that they are very familiar with california CC curriculums and schools, which should facilitate transferring credits.</p>

18

<p>Socalmomof2-</p>

<p>Is this post from your daughter....
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=24011&highlight=bipolar%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=24011&highlight=bipolar&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>When I read your post, it stirred up memories of another poster who sounded like your D. I don't have any sound advice for your situation, unfortunately. I wish you all the best and hope you find a solution that makes everyone happy and is best for your D. I just thought, in case this IS your D's post, you would want to read what she wrote in case it helps.</p>

19

<p>My brother has severe bi-polar disorder. Though he has suffered for more than twenty years, it still amazes me how hard it is for a healthy person to understand the volatilities. I know I shouldn't expect him to be stable. I know he constantly fluctuates between mania and depression--with the help of an ungodly amount of drugs (which are constantly under change too). Still, I find that it is impossible for me. I still expect him to be basically stable...because I am basically stable.</p>

<p>Have you ever heard the expression that humans cannot understand the depth of the world beyond the length of their own arm? Trying to cope with a bi-polar brother proved the point to me.</p>

<p>My brother is barely functioning now but when he was your DD's age, he graduated from journalism school and got a great job with a newspaper. He met and married the most beautiful and talented woman.</p>

<p>Slowly, ravaged by repeated hospitalizations, he lost everything. I'd give anything to be talking about his ambitions now.</p>

<p>My advice:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You probably have already done this, but find a support group for families living with bi-polar illness. AS Northstarmom and jamimom said, this board cannot properly address that issue. Most parents do not struggle with your issues.</p></li>
<li><p>Embrace her ambitions. Let her choose her own ambitions--keeping an eye out for mania, of course. </p></li>
<li><p>Try to chart her course of ups and downs vs. your course of ups and downs with a calender. I think you might see a pattern in her cycle. I think you will see huge differences between your moods. You might be able to teach yourself not to expect stability. (NOT easy).</p></li>
<li><p>Believe it or not, you are living in a wonderful period with your DD. Try to appreciate it. Try not to load it up with too many expectations.
Ask people for wishes/prayers that it will continue. (Here's one from me).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>As frustrating as it is for the family of a bipolar person, it is a thousand times more frustrating for the person themselves. They do aspire to have healthy, normal lives and their own minds turn on them.</p>

<p>After twenty years, my brother has finally settled into a semi-normal relationship with my devoted parents. For the longest time, he was so angry with them. He couldn't understand why they couldn't 'fix' him.</p>

<p>It took them at lest ten years to accept the impact of his illness. He was one of their brilliant brilliant boys and his life has been reduced to so little. Still, they are grateful for the wonderful moments he does have.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

20

<p>cheers - what a beautiful post. </p>

<p>I, too, have a bi-polar sibling and cannot control my expectations for her: to continue with her medications, etc. You have helped me see that they are my expectations, arising from my stable place. Thank you.</p>

<p><em>apologize for the slight hijack, but just had to express my appreciation</em></p>