<p>
[quote]
**Addiction is when it becomes obviously harmful.
[/quote]
**
Harmful to whom? One can if one so chooses take risks to health and condition of body [showering]. I understand your point, I think, but I don't happen to agree w/ your choice of wording.</p>
<p>"No he is not missing classes (confirmed this morning) and is eating, sleeping and showering, though he said he has a hard time sleeping....another issue I want to ask you parents about. "</p>
<p>How did you confirm that he's not missing classes, and is eating, showering,etc.? Are you relying on his word only? People who are addicted are notoriously unreliable. And as for missing classes didn't you post that a prof had called home trying to reach your S, who had missed several classes?</p>
<p>If he has insomnia, he needs to see a doctor.</p>
<p>"I know you asked nsm, but I'll add that there are plenty of functional addicts. Just because a kid manages to keep up decent grades doesn't mean he doesn't have an addiction or a problem."</p>
<p>I agree. When I was a military psychologist, I helped treat more than 1,000 addicts and their families.</p>
<p>The problem with addressing an addiction is that unless it is causing problems, there's no reason for the person to get help. Sure, it would be great if a college student socialized instead of spending their time out of class gaming alone. However, it's not life threatening, doesn't harm others, so there's no reason for the college to get involved any more than it would get involved with a college student who only studied when they weren't in class. Some people choose not to socialize: their choice. </p>
<p>Glad to hear about the conference call with the counseling center, and that you're seeking help for yourself. Also Google "therapist" "addictions" "[whatever your hometown is]" and you may get names of licensed therapists who list expertise with addictions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sure, it would be great if a college student socialized instead of spending their time out of class gaming alone.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>They are not alone. The really addictive games are community games and they are either on line or in the room with others, or both. That is what makes them so hard to break. The community pressures them not to miss a session since them the team is not at full strength. The rewards come with the entire team tackling the game together.</p>
<p>Once your student is truly on his own, he is going to have to deal with his addiction. There are adults who have shrunk their worlds by quite a bit because of their addictions and yet are able to be self sufficient enough that it is truly their own business what they are doing. Actually if you are hurting those you love, it is not truly your own business, but what I mean to say is that other than offering them advice and alternatives, there is not a lot you can do. Many folks spend their time unwisely. </p>
<p>It isn't a line that is crossed when a person is an addict. When it becomes harmful is not easy to determine. According to the OP, the situation was discussed earlier, an agreement was made that the game was to be kept out of his life at school. OP also says classes were missed, and the young man could not even talk on the phone, he was so engrossed in game (I know that syndrome). Still unless you stay right on top of him, you are not going to prevent him from indulging. The only stipulations you can make are ones that you can verify, like satisfactory grades, not overdrafting accounts, going to a counselor regularly. The reason you want to see a counselor is so that you make sure you are enabling or making classic mistakes parents do when a loved on is on this kind of ride. Also you have a professional who can talk to the student's counselor. While you control the finances for the kid and his choices, there are some things you can require or take action. Later in life, it is not going to be as easy.</p>
<p>When do logical consequences enter the scene?</p>
<p>Hazmat, it really is not a simple issue. I guess in this case, if there was an agreement that he was not to have a gaming system and he got one, the system needs to be taken away. That has been done. Since he spent money intended for other things for it, he will not be trusted with as large amounts now and have to account for his spending. I think that given the background, the parent can insist he go to counseling and that some discussion with the counselor is needed. </p>
<p>Still if he sneaks off to a game console elsewhere or finds computer games he can play, it is likely he is not caught if he chooses to hide this. He can go through the motions of counseling and get nowhere. </p>
<p>The logical consequences in my opinion, are a pulling of parental support for college if the kid gets grades that do not count for graduation. But those are my standards. I may let it go for a term (have done so) if the problem is generalized and there is work on the issues, but if it is a specific known addiction and the kid is disregarding my take on the matter and is indulging, well, I think he may need to learn to support his own habit for a while. </p>
<p>I know a number of such boys, by the way, who are living with parents, no job, just playing on the computer or video games. Painful decisions have had to be made as to how to throw the kid out with no job, no outside life. It is not an easy solution, and the parent should seek counseling as it is very difficult to address addiction problems or harmful activities.</p>
<p>I understand it is not "simple". I just happen to think logical consequences come when a person makes a poor decision. I can see that the long term logical consequence makes for a hard parental bed to sleep in. So is the function of allowing such kids to live at home, long term hope for maturity and acceptance of self responsibility? I just don't quite see that part. I don't however think that this problem is simple to resolve.</p>
<p>There are plenty of hard core alcoholics who are CEO's of large corporations, run operations with market caps of several billion dollars and are responsible for tens of thousands of employees. They typify "high functioning".... but I think most of their shareholders would agree with their families that high functioning doesn't mean they don't have a substance issue.</p>
<p>I would not use grades, class attendance or any other proxy for "high functioning" as evidence that your son does not have a problem. I agree that the first person to get counseling in this scenario needs to be you. Your son is unlikely to show up to make an appointment and even less likely to keep that first appointment. You are a better candidate for counseling right now since you seem aware of the problem and seem eager to find a solution. Your son seems eager to get the interested and caring family members off his back.</p>
<p>I can tell you that my son's videogaming made me nuts here. It seemed to be his prime activity at home. Even though his grades were OK and he had outside ECs, we had arguments about his time on the games and his demeanor while playing those games. Hopefully he is not doing the same at college now. If I start getting signs that he is not showing up for class, and seems to always be in his room, distracted with the sound of video games in the background, I would get concerned and would want to go there to personally tell him to shut it down and warn him if he does not get a full term's worth of credit for the semester, he will not be back. I am not paying for him to sit and play video games in his room all day. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if he comes out with decent grades, though I would encourage other activities, I would not shut him down or threaten. A delicate balance, I guess. I would probably talk to his RA and see if he can't be encouraged to do other activities but I would not push that hard. If, however, he had a history of abuse with the activity, I would insist that he get rid of the danged game, and get counseling help if it sneaked back into his life, and would make financial aid contingent on his cooperation.</p>
<p>I agree cptofthehouse. We may not like the number of hours boys spend playing these games, either alone or with friends, but as long as they are keeping up their end of the bargain (going to class, getting good grades, eating and sleeping), do we call it an addiction because they choose to play games rather than hangout, party or play sports? Are we labeling kids that are really fine, just choosing to do something we don't agree with. As my son who plays too many videogames in my view (most often with other kids but who goes to class and does get out of his room), maybe it is better than going to frat parties and drinking too much. I don't know the answer of how much is too much.</p>
<p>Thank you for that FERPA cite, oldfort. It's surprising that there is still such misunderstanding re FERPA and college students who are tax dependents since the Virginia Tech tragedy.</p>
<p>Addicts lie. I would not accept his word that he is attending class. </p>
<p>I have to say that natural consequences are one of my favorite parenting tools and it may be in order here. Assuming that he is not in danger of anything but failing it sounds like that may be the course to take. If you decide to let things take their course do talk to him about your plan now. The threat of having the financial plug pulled if he fails classes may be what he needs to get himself some help.</p>
<p>Historymom, I agree that natural consequences are what may be needed, as difficult as it is for us moms to watch. A lot of kids just don't believe that they have a big problem until they see the consequence when mom or dad do not bail them out. Too many times I have bailed mine out because I could not stand the consequence, and then realized that they had no idea since they did not have to do the scurrying and suffering since I did it for them. It's even more painful when the natural order of things occurs, but sometimes that is what is needed to get it through their thick heads.</p>
<p>I am in tentative agreement with historymom and cptofthehouse. We have told our son that if his grades don't improve, he won't be back at school after Christmas. He seems to be taking us seriously and studying a lot harder, and has a counselor. . . Of course we won't really know until we see his semester grades. And then: if his grades are lousy but not failing, poor by our standards (I have a problem with D's) but not academic probation poor, do we pull the plug? Ahh, I hope it doesn't come to that!</p>
<p>"NSM, what is the difference between playing alot and an addiction when it comes to gaming? How do you tell the difference?"</p>
<p>It's so hard to define with something like gaming that doesn't involve ingesting a substance. There's no DSM (the manual for psychiatric diagnoses) for this kind of addiction yet. I believe it would be if the gaming is causing harm to one's life. </p>
<p>Here's what Gamers Anonymous suggests:</p>
<p>"The following are screenings compiled by us, by gamers and by professionals. They are not meant to be expert diagnostic tools and only you and a competant therapist can decide if your gaming is causing personal problems in your life and what you should do about it.</p>
<p>Print this list out. As you go through these, try not to focus on any one question, but instead the overall 'tone' of what the answers seem to imply. There are no right or wrong answers, but the more honest you are with yourself while going through them, the more benefit the screenings will be for you. When you are finished, look at your list. How many have you answered YES to? Do YOU think you have a problem?</p>
<p>Are the majority of your friends gamers as well, who mostly get together for LAN parties to play games?
Do you try to find ways of playing your online game when you're not at home?
Are you unable to predict time spent gaming.
Do you deny addiction to an MMORPG, but somehow still feel the need to play, or just keep your character and possessions updated (you may be masking it by pretending you're having fun)?
Do you feel preoccupied with gaming (do you think about previous gaming activity or anticipate your next session)?
Do you spend more of your free time surfing game-related websites?
Do you spend a significant amount of time outside the game is spent in activities relating to the game, Allakhazams comes to mind, books, guides?
Do you often check your gaming boards before doing other things that you need to do?
Are you finding yourself flirting with those of the opposite sex in the game, to build a relationship, rather in person?
Do you feel your heart racing as you control your character in a flee from danger? ...to save his or her virtual life? ...when stumbling upon some serious loot?
Do you feel a sudden rush of intense joy and relaxation after you safely manage to steal, pickpocket, or murder another character? (Sense of Euphoria while playing)
Do you experience stronger emotions while in your online game than you do in real life?
Do you ever refer to yourself as your In-Game character, or cling to your characters name for your email's, instant messanger, etc?
Do you have constant conversation with uninterested friends/family/partner about the game?
Do you attempt to get friends/family/partner to play, so you can play more?
Do you feel closer to your character than your real self?
Have you withdrawn from real life hobbies?
Do you eat more and more meals at the computer while gaming?
Have your sleep patterns changed? How often do you lose sleep due to late-night raids/gaming?
Have you experienced physical effects from excessive gaming - Carpel tunnel, eye strain, weight change, back ache, sore neck, arms, wrist?
Do you purchasing in-game items for real life money?
Do you often become defensive or secretive when anyone asks you what you do when you are gaming?
Do you deny, rationalizing and minimizing bad consequences of gaming?
Do you feel the need to "stand up for gamers" and proclaim that your life is perfect by listing all of your life's achievements, and yet you still game for 4-6 hours per day.
How often do you neglect household chores to spend more time gaming?
Have you given up or reduced time spent at important social, occupational, or recreational activities in your real life to play the game?
Do you prefer the excitement of gaming to intimacy with your partner?
Has your excessive gaming caused trouble at home?
Have you missed days of work or school because of your game playing?
Have you jeopardized or risked the loss of a significant relationship, job, educational or career opportunity because of your game playing?
Do you wish people would mind their own business about your gaming-- stop telling you what to do?
How often do you try to hide how long you've been gaming?
Do you often snap, yell, or act annoyed if someone bothers you while you are gaming?
Do you tell yourself you can stop playing the game any time you want to, even though you keep playing when you don't mean to?
Have you repeatedly made unsuccessful efforts to control, cut back, or stop your game playing?
Do you have difficulty staying away from gaming for several days at a time?
Increased free time surfing game-related websites
Do you feel the need to play games with increasing amounts of time in order to achieve satisfaction? (Crave more game time?)
Do you often fear that life without gaming would be boring, empty, and joyless?
Have you ever decided to stop playing the game for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days?
Do you feel restless, moody, depressed, or irritable when attempting to cut down or stop your gaming? Does it go away once you are back gaming again?
Have you ever switched from one game to another in the hope that this would keep you from playing so much?
Have you lied to family members, a therapist, or others to conceal the extent of your involvement with gaming?
Do you use gaming as a way of escaping from problems or of relieving a dysphoric mood (eg. Feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety, depression)?
Do you envy people who can play the game without getting into 'trouble'?
Do you feel guilt, shame, anxiety or depression resulting from your gaming?
Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not play the game so much?</p>
<p>Want to add that you can still have a problem with an activity if it is causing you and yours trouble even if you can get past a questionnaire.</p>
<p>My daughter went thru this with fanfiction.com. She was absolutely wild for the website, was on it all night and slept when exhausted (around 6 am) every weekend and every day during vacations. During the school week she was on it until midnight, when the computers were shut down for the night. She got 2 C's in high school junior year due to being on Facebook, as well. The only reason she isn't repeating history this senior year in high school is because the Internet cable at her boarding school was accidentally cut and so no one in the dorms has the Internet--a real blesssing, she has been doing her work this semester. </p>
<p>She dives in whole-hog to these things, but she was also addicted to reading and re-reading fiction for hours and hours earlier in her high school years as well.</p>
<p>With respect to these games, they are highly addicting for certain individuals. My older son spent about 7 yrs playing them, in middle and high school and then 2 yrs in college before finally coming to the realization that they were interfering with his social life. </p>
<p>I wish you luck in dealing with this crisis. How unfortunate.</p>
<p>Anyone have experience with their kids and insomnia? He has been plagued with this for years off and on....any ideas/suggestions? I hate to suggest a sleeping aid but his sleep is so important</p>
<p>Have him try swimming for a couple of hrs a day. My son swears by this as a way to calm himself down before he starts studying. He tends to be restless and an insomniac, which runs in my family apparently. The swimming has been extremely beneficial. He stumbled across this accidentally as a result of swimming in high school for his school's team.</p>
<p>Yes, exercise early in the day can help with sleep later.</p>
<p>Just wanted to chime in with support for the OP. I am sure your S's college has dealt with this before, hopefully he will go to the appt with the counselling center and it will go well.</p>
<p>I echo the call for you to get counseling as well, not because you're doing anything wrong as a parent, but just to help you cope. </p>
<p>I'm normally a fan of "natural consequences," but in this case it would probably be the end of a very expensive semester before the natural consequences (poor/failing grades) would hit. For the OP to simply sit back and wait for "natural consequences" when she knows what is going on would be irresponsible, in my opinion, because it would take too long for them to kick in. If her S wakes up (thanks to grandpa's visit) and gets help at the Counseling center, perhaps a wasted semester and potentially academic probation could be avoided.</p>
<p>Also agree with the suggestion to mine the college's website, find some activities/clubs he might enjoy, and suggest he seek them out.</p>
<p>Good luck, and you have my sympathy and support.</p>
<p>Another option - encourage him to get a campus job. It'll get him out of his room and occupy him for a time. It'll also get him more engaged with the campus and other students and staff there. It may help him feel more a 'part' of the campus as an employee rather than the displaced stranger he may feel like now. </p>
<p>Of course, this means he'd be earning money and thus could get another gaming system but face it, he can probably end up getting one again anyway if he tries hard enough (buying used from another student or on eBay) or he could play some games on his PC assuming he has one.</p>
<p>His issue may well not be addiction or the game itself - just a lack of becoming socially engaged in his new unfamiliar environment. It seems that I'm about the only one other your S who thinks this might be the real issue.</p>