<p>I think the process should be a joint one, with the kids and the child, as should paying for it. I don't think its fair that a parent feels they necessarily know what is best for their 17-19 year old student, just as I don't feel the student should make the decision without help and guidance from the parents. Overall, my process was collaborative, and I'm thrilled with how it ended up.</p>
<p>I think you are getting to the heart of the problem when you say that your "parents man not get it".</p>
<p>Communication.</p>
<p>When you are born an American (or Canadian) citizen, your parents are obliged to feed you, house you, and educate you until age 18.</p>
<p>The vast majority do so much more for their children out of their love for them, such as providing financial support for a university education. A university education is not a constitutional right, nor is it free. It is an additional investment both you and your parents make in your future.</p>
<p>Since both parties need to be certain that this large investment (often second only to a home) delivers its maximum value, both parents and student must come to an understanding on what will be both embraced by the student (no use in going if you hate the place) and useful to realistic life goals of the student.</p>
<p>The best outcomes when student and parent communicate open and freely about the students life goals (if s/he even knows them yet) and what type of school environment is best for achieving these goals (or an interim set of goals such as having a broad education that will allow post-grad work in a variety of fields so that when the student decides on a life direction, s/he may go that way).</p>
<p>Generally, this talk should happen as high school progresses. If the student or parent starts throwing out schools that a student should or shouldn't attend without having this discussion, all it does is cloud the relationship. The pull and push of their relationship is transferred to a bunch of names of places as opposed to what the objective is (figuring how to get to where the student wants to go in life).</p>
<p>Now for the student, this is probably the first major decision they get to have a significant input on in their life. It is their first sales job as a result.</p>
<p>Lets face it, for the rest of their career, after a student graduates and is employed, they will have to sell their bosses on letting them do such and such work to develop such and such skill. Bosses don't automatically know what will make you the most valuable employee.</p>
<p>And employers have to be cognizant of their employees desires to develop, not just always placing them in some assignment because they need a warm body there. Employers invest a lot of money (salary and training) in an employee and want to invest those costs wisely to maximize the benefit to the company.</p>
<p>Likewise the student and parent have this first assignment of figuring out where they can best invest the students time and the parents money to maximize the benefit to the family's happiness - usually measured by a happy and productive student in their career.</p>
<p>That being said, not all students know what they want, nor are in tune with what type of environment is truly best for their development. They are still growing up.</p>
<p>Not all parents are all that in tune with their student's psyche and spend lots of well-intentioned but misguided effort trying to mold that students direction.</p>
<p>Someplace between there should be a happy ground. </p>
<p>Ultimately, because the student has to live his/her life, it is incumbent upon them to take the lead and start and guide that dialogue. It is s/he who suffers to the extent that a poor decision is made. And the student has to sell the parent on the whole package ultimately as the money will not automatically fall from a tree.</p>
<p>I believe that many publics are artificially ranked higher than privates. This makes more people happy. I can only speak for SUNT schools. Binghamton doers not compare to Syrcause in any catergory especially business. Visit both talk to students and research. If SUNY was lets say 25K a year no one would apply because it's not worth it, however, at 15K including room and board it is worth that.</p>
<p>lenk:
Please remember, rankings are not just based on the strength of a college's academics. If they were, the results for most colleges would be different.</p>
<p>One advantage that I've seen at some "flagship" publics is nicer facilities -- better dorms, better variety of food, more food locations, better recreational facilities, etc. I'm not saying that this is always true, it just been that way with the flagships that we have visited. I also know that publics that are not a state's flagship often do not have these nicer facilities.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>I think the process should be a joint one, with the kids and the child, as should paying for it. I don't think its fair that a parent feels they necessarily know what is best for their 17-19 year old student, just as I don't feel the student should make the decision without help and guidance from the parents. Overall, my process was collaborative, and I'm thrilled with how it ended up. <<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I agree. If parents actually insist that a kid attend a particular college (against the child's wishes) then the kid will likely dislike the college and be forever angry at the parents. However, Parents are not obligated to pay for the school of their kid's choice.</p>
<p>I agree with EconMajor08. A collaborative process works best, imo. There were often three sets of eyes/ears on the college tours, which lent itself to a good debriefing later.</p>
<p>There were some opinions I kept to myself. We visited Yale the day after we visited Smith and I remember thinking, "This is crazy but I think Smith is better." Fortunately, Yale's adcom relieved D of any conflict because she liked both very much.</p>
<p>I regret having not twisted an arm with my oldest. I knew he wasn't making the best choice but I let him choose believing it was his first big adult decision and I needed to stand back. 6 months later he knew he'd made the wrong decision and wanted to know why I hadn't forced by opinion! No trajedy, but he could have had a better undergrad experience and could have broadened his horizons earlier.</p>
<p>With my younger kids, I'm giving a firm push in the direction I believe is right.</p>
<p>ariesathena wrote, "...why pay for NYU or BU when that means that you can't help your kid with grad school?" There is an assumption here that parents naturally want to or should help their kids pay for professional school. Maybe YOU need a wake-up call to alert you to the fact that parents do not exist for the sole purpose of endlessly supporting their adult children. Maybe some parents would like to send their kids to perfectly good, less expensive, colleges not so that they can stretch their money to pay for several additional years of schooling for snot-nosed 25-year-olds but, instead, so that they can have some money for things that THEY want out of life, for retirement, etc. -- imagine that! And, even if parents would be spending the same amount of money overall, maybe they don't want to stretch out their children's period of dependency on them.</p>
<p>Yes Marite -good memory -we did say that we would not fully pay for Skidmore- We offered to pay 1/2 and suggested that our son take loans for the rest. He refused and chose UMASS....there were other considerations naturally.</p>
<ul>
<li>and the jury is still out as to whether or not UMASS Amherst was the better choice over Skidmore for our son. In the end it is up to the student. Some kids take a little longer to mature or recognize the opportunities that college offers in general. Some do not utilize the vast resources of a college and sit in their room all day and never socialize. As many have said on the CC boards: "one should not choose a college for its employment value but rather for its educational qualities/skill level of college. I suspect that he may have received a more thorough education at Skidmore. While UMass/Amherst is on a campaign to inprove the school's reputation, they still have some work to do.....so do you get what you pay for- $20,000 UMASS cost versus $50,000 cost at Skidmore?</li>
</ul>
<p>Songman:</p>
<p>I'm having that kind of discussion with my parents. Did you get much aid from either Skidmore or UMass. Since you were willing to pay half at Sidmore did you put that "full half" towards the UMass bill.</p>
<p>My biggest worry is not getting into the schools I'm applying to (besides UMass), but getting enough financial aid (grants and scholarships) that will reduce what my parents and I will have to borrow.</p>
<p>Because of financial aid concerns I'm only applying EA where it is necessary to be in the merit pool, then regular for all other schools. I do worry about applying ED and getting not so good a package, while worrying that those who do apply ED will get the greater portion of the merit pool.</p>
<p>Seeems like you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.</p>
<p>august: >> ariesathena wrote, "...why pay for NYU or BU when that means that you can't help your kid with grad school?" There is an assumption here that parents naturally want to or should help their kids pay for professional school. Maybe YOU need a wake-up call to alert you to the fact that parents do not exist for the sole purpose of endlessly supporting their adult children. Maybe some parents would like to send their kids to perfectly good, less expensive, colleges not so that they can stretch their money to pay for several additional years of schooling for snot-nosed 25-year-olds but, instead, so that they can have some money for things that THEY want out of life, for retirement, etc.<<<</p>
<p>I don't think that ari was implying that parents must/should pay for grad school (or even undergrad), I think she (he?) was implying that IF a parent has set aside XXXX to spend on his child's college ed, wouldn't it be better to spend XXXX-yyyyy so that zzzzz would still be available for grad school? I think the implication is that many parents get overly focused on undergrad (by budgeting a huge chunk of money for it) but forget that today, kids need grad degrees. I don't want to pay out huge sums (and I won't), but I also don't want my kids to grad from grad and undergrad with large debts to pay back. So, whatever amount I will pay, will be spent on a "good fit" college that won't necessarily be the most expensive.</p>
<p>songman,</p>
<p>A UMass Amherst student can improve his educational opportunities by making use of the Five College cooperation with Smith, Amherst and Mount Holyoke; all three have academic reputations as good and, for the most part, better than Skidmore's.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...today, kids need grad degrees.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would ammend that to say "in some fields." I would never want to impose a guilt trip on parents who can't swing a graduate school bill for their kids. Kids who want graduate degrees can go to school at night while working or seek a job that includes tuition reimbursement as a benefit.</p>
<p>sticker</p>
<p>Of course, I should have said "in some fields". And, no "guilt trip" is intended. ; The post was about parents who have XXX to spend (say 100k) and "blow it all" on a too-expensive undergrad while a less expensive undergrad would have sufficed and the balance could have been used for grad school.</p>
<p>It's always "hindsight" as to what would have "sufficed" & whether at the other school the kid would have even made it to grad school. Since we say "fit" is everything, who is to say the fit would have worked out at the other school? We only know the path that was taken & we all do the best we can.<br>
Sure, we can say if kid took the full-ride, so much money (maybe even $100K) could have been saved to be applied to grad school, but who says the kid would have had the great undergrad experience that made him/her want to continue ed into grad school? Choices & futures aren't really as clear & obvious as it sometimes appears.</p>
<p>" The post was about parents who have XXX to spend (say 100k) and "blow it all" on a too-expensive undergrad while a less expensive undergrad would have sufficed and the balance could have been used for grad school."</p>
<p>The student still can get to grad school on their own as my husband and I did. I am surprised that so many students expect their parents to pay for grad school. </p>
<p>I also don't see spending $100k on undergrad as "blowing it" if that's the education that the student wants and the parent is willing to pay that much.</p>
<p>We did give our S the option of choosing the full-ride & having money to apply toward grad school or the school he preferred with us paying $25K/year & likely little or no help with grad school. He chose the latter & is very happy. I really think he made a good choice, even if it may not be the choice I would have made or wished.</p>
<p>lenk58, could you elaborate? WHY is Syracuse so much better than Binghamton? And in particular, why is it FIVE TIMES as good? ('cause that's how much more the tuition is). Thanks.</p>
<p>I fortunately control the trust fund set up to pay for our kids education. I don't know what school HImom's S made a deal with his parents to attend now and receive no help after undergrad. Sad, in my opinion 17-19yr olds shouldn't be making those type of decisions. To be saddled with debt out of grad school when it is not necessary is unfortunate.
I understand everyone's financial circumstances are different and finances play a critical part in the decision for many families. We have been blessed and money wasn't the issue. We are paying more at CAL because he turned down considerable merit money at 2 So Cal Universities to attend his school of choice and what we all felt was a better choice him and a better school.</p>
<p>Well, I'm definitely with Northstarmom on the grad school issue. We don't feel any obligation to pay for grad or professional school. If either son wants to go to grad school, it will be in the sciences, and they should be able to find fellowships or TA positions. If they go for professional school, then there's nothing wrong with investing a portion of their future earnings in their own educations. We actually think that they are lucky to have us foot the bill for undergraduate study.</p>