Is it OK for a parent to say to their child, "I will pay for this school. I won't pay

Parents Forum
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<p>Tell you about our situation (which is under development)...</p>

<p>I've got 2 children.</p>

<p>Son. 16 yrs old. Aspergers. Can learn anything he wants to with ease (could easily be a genious), but doesn't. Can't keep his grades above C level. Lives one minute at a time. Thinks very hard about how not to do. Doesn't care to look any further and it doesn't bother him (very typical of Aspergers). </p>

<p>I'd be thrilled to spend more money than I have if he would care to take the interest to develop himself, even if it were theatre, or any of the other "useless" majors people have been picking on here. When he finishes high school (hoping to drag this on as long as possible), I just pray he can find a job that motivates him to get out of bed in the morning.</p>

<p>14 year old daughter. Polar opposite of her brother. Ambitious. Hard working. Average intellegence (she even recognizes this). A doer more than a thinker. Very concerned about finding a good career (thoughts go between sports medicine and FBI - doer not thinker). Atheletic. Hockey goalie (hence my screen name). Better than almost all the boys in the region. Wants to play college hockey. </p>

<p>Got herself into a NE prep school this year (9th grade) with a generous FA package which makes it only slightly more expensive than her previous year's hockey habit (travel costs even more than ice time when you live where we do). "Need-based" FA is as much awarded based upon how much they need you as you need FA. So she is in a school where she will be in the upper quartile of her class. Lets say, higher prestige schools have plenty of talented athletes with money.</p>

<p>She is working her rear end off studying (the 2 hour period each night is not enough) struggling as I sense she expects straight A's from herself. And this is only the first full week of school. She seems to be very happy though. </p>

<p>We are actually very happy with the school she ended up at over another alternative (even though she is over 1000 miles from home as a 14 year old). It is not a hyper competitive prep school. She doesn't need to have the added pressure of what her peers are doing. Classes are even smaller than we expected (around 10). She will probably be getting exactly what she needs environmentally to make the most of her ability academically. </p>

<p>Hockey will be interesting. This is not a school that has a terriffic college placement record, primarily because it hasn't been particularly competitive for a number of years. That's OK with my D. She's used to it. We have had to travel long distances to play on teams where she carried much of the load. She just wants to go where she can play. She has confidence that her talent can't be hidden.</p>

<p>We'll see how this goes over the next few years. Hopefully, she will attract somebody's attention. Hockey will most likely be the driving force deciding where she will go to college.</p>

<p>I hope she has the wisdom to see that her small prep school experience is far better for her than the big public school where she has been (she didn't like it). </p>

<p>And this comes from a father who works for the big flagship U (top 40 public university) and gets a 50% tuition discount. Packaged with a state sponsored scholarship for anyone with a 3.5 and she can go to school for free here (although it only has mens club hockey). Actually, she has the talent to play mens club hockey (as there has been 1 forward woman on the squad in past years). </p>

<p>From a financial standpoint, it would be a no-brainer to stay home, get a free undergrad degree from a decent school and save her pennies for grad school. I kinda joke with her that she better get that hockey scholarship or she had better like the local school's colors.</p>

<p>I don't think she would be happy at this school currently. That may change, but I'm not holding my breath.</p>

<p>Figuring that she won't hit the Division 1 scholarship jackpot (there are only about 30 schools minus 8 Ivy League that can give out athletic $) and many of those are big schools much like the local option, she is likely to be a candidate for a small LAC Div 3 school, where she will need to be a star to get quality (non-loan) FA. </p>

<p>And trust me, we cannot afford much help with our Asperger's son working for large state U in the south. Sad fact is that the university couldn't afford to hire its own graduates.</p>

<p>So, if the offers for her education come in short of expectations, do I yank her home for that "free" undergrad?</p>

<p>It will be her decision. She knows that we won't dig ourselves into a hole where we can't look after her brother. I think she realizes that a necessary graduate degree will not be cheap either. I hope she has learned from our prep experience to find a school that needs HER and will find a way to fund her. I am confident that she will make a smart decision.</p>

<p>I think this whole topic comes to whether the parent and child have come to a point where the child is mature enough and the parent is confident enough in their child to come to a mutual decision. </p>

<p>It would appear that if you to making this kind of statement, you probably aren't there.</p>

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<p>quote:</p>

<p>I agree with parents having a say in their kid's choice college when finances are the issue, but there are some intangibles which I don't think are fair.</p>

<p>For example, my dad was accepted to Berkeley for undergrad, and was greatly looking forward to attending. However, his parents basically told him that they didn't want him going to some overtly-liberal, "hippie" school. He ended up going to Colorado-Boulder (by no means a bad school, but it's no Berkeley). The potential income he could be making now was marred by his parents. In cases like those, I believe it's not fair.</p>

<p>end quote</p>

<p>BTW - I went to Cal, given a choice by my parents of the use of a car and stay home (in So Cal) and go to a CSU or get room and board (no car). In either case, I had to pay my own tuition, books, and other expenses.</p>

<p>My folks knew about Berkeley's reputation, but fortunately put the same trust in me that I put in my daughter.</p>

<p>It didn't take me long to figure out that the inmates run the asylum there. Most of my classes were taught by grad students (many of whom had Engilish as a second language). Got a practical degree (Business) as I was a practical oriented kid. Didn't end up using it though.</p>

<p>I still wouldn't trade it in for another experience given the circumstances. It gave me a wide perspective on life (I learned more outside of the classroom than inside - things I wouldn't have learned in a small school or the local CSU).</p>

<p>I graduated during a severe recession and had no parental support for a grad degree, so not being a top quartile from Cal's ugrad B school, I didn't get didly squat for offers. </p>

<p>From an initial job offer perspective, I say go to a school where you will be in the top quartile (preferrably top decile) of your class.</p>

<p>It's too bad that your father still thinks about such things. </p>

<p>If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, what a fine Christmas we would have.</p>

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<p>goaliedad, I also went to Berkeley (business major too) and never had one grad student teach a class; although, I went to a community college first. Maybe, that was a good thing. :)</p>

<p>Interesting article in Friday's Wall Street Journal called "Opting Out of Private School". It appears some people are tired of the costs of private schools and are looking for public schools where their children can be near the top of their class (the schools have to be of high quality too).</p>

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<p>dstark,</p>

<p>Within the B school (upper division), they didn't have grad students running the lectures (they just ran the sections for the core courses), but it seems that everything lower division outside of the major (stat, math, etc) was taught by grad students except the very large lectures (200+ which were profs whom you could never get office hours with unless you stumped the grad student). </p>

<p>I do remember the grad assist who ran an upper division accounting section. He had a heavy French/Israeli accent and couldn't say the word "Firm" correctly. It came out something like "feeelm". It took an hour and a half before somebody had the courage to ask him to write the word "feeelm" on the board before half the section knew what he was talking about.</p>

<p>Actually, I did 9 units a semester at a CC in my senior year in HS (I hated my HS and was bored) where I actually got much more personal attention from the instructors in smaller classes. I think you did a shrewd thing.</p>

<p>Actually what you did was quite impressive. As I remember there were very few slots in the B school for transfer students and many many applicants.</p>

<p>About the "Opting out of Private School". I do find that much of the success of many local private schools are more due to the students they start with (with pushy parents and excluding children with any learning disability). I wouldn't pay extra based upon who my child sat next to. </p>

<p>The school where my daughter goes actually works with a significant number of LD students (lowering their average SAT scores) and is more focused on developing the whole person. LD students get even more attention and special help. Typical instructor went to a NE LAC and most have masters from similar schools.</p>

<p>The local HS where she would go is large (2300 students) and is the top scoring in the county. However, it is over capacity (tax payers are really slow to pay for anything) has huge classes (30) only limited by state law. At her middle school she never even met her counselor. When we lived in Wisconsin and Michigan before moving south, the schools spent 2x as much per student. Let's just say good students happen despite the lack of resources applied in our local schools.</p>

<p>It was a very easy decision to go prep.</p>

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<p>"Actually, I did 9 units a semester at a CC in my senior year in HS (I hated my HS and was bored) where I actually got much more personal attention from the instructors in smaller classes. I think you did a shrewd thing."</p>

<p>Well, it was what I could afford.
The instuctors were excellent at the CC. The students were actually very strong too.</p>

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<p>There is a difference between financial issues and parenting/parental control issues when dictating restrictions in college choice. Although granted there are parents who live in luxery who do not want to give up an iota of this lifestyle for college money, most of us want to give our children the best we can. To put ones family in a true hole, a perilous financial situation, adversely affect needy members of the family is clearly not the way to go for a child to have his choice in colleges no costs barred. The grayer areas become a matter of family budgeting, and that is not an area that someone outside of the family can really challenge since it often comes down to priorities and values.
But cost aside, there are areas where parents often feel they need to exert some limits in the choice of colleges. What to do when your son has no reason to want to go to U of Hawaii other than he always wanted to go to Hawaii and surf and it looks cool? A no brainer on that one. How about a kid who prefers to go to a state school not in his state that is virtually indistiguishable from his own state u for no apparent reason other than it "feels better" and some friends he likes are going there. The cost can be double or more in such a situation, and where is the value? What about a kid that you have good reason to believe should stay at home or close to home for the first year or so? What if you know to the tip of your toes that your kid does not belong at Party State U and a small LAC is his best chance to succeed? Are Hartwick or Gettysburg worth the extra $$over Tiny State College Geneseo? Do you really think it's worth flying 5 hours, then renting a car, driving 2 hours to very expensive LAC? What if you know your kid needs some push to pick a decent major or he will flounder and not graduate in 4 years? These can all be called parenting issues or parental control. Maybe you are willing to pay $$$ for expensive LAC for its nurturing premed program but if the kid is just looking at a bunch of general courses with no desire to put the ax to the grindstone, should he just as well go to a much less expensive school. How much should those intangible factors such as "feel", atmosphere, people count when the kid picks a school that belies all info that you can gather on the school? And when I say count, I mean in terms of precious $$ of which you are not made of.<br>
When you have a kid who is in line with your thinking and you trust, you are going to be more likely to give a lot of latitude in those things. If you have one that looks like he's all over the place, it can be a different story.</p>

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<p>What about majors... I want to major in criminal justice... but the top national schools that have criminal justice are very limited (GWU and Northeastern) My parents have a whole bunch of other schools in mind for me...which don't have criminal justice. I want to go into the FBI which you don't need to have a criminal justice degree in, since they like variety. But i was thinking about becoming a cop first then applying into the FBI later in my life. This whole FBI/criminal justice thing is unsure and is just a dream but I don't really have any other ideas about what i want to do with my life. </p>

<p>should i go on to apply to one of the schools they want...? They are paying for it. The thing is that they do not support this major and i don't know what to do now. Any advice</p>

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<p>This is my personal opinion as a parent. I agree with your parents that criminal justice can be a limiting major and for someone your age a fleeting interest. Statistically those statements are true, whether or not they will apply to you personally. You can also take criminal justice courses very inexpensively in during summers and possibly in tandem with your other courses. Better you get a broader education and more typical college life. Do your parents object to GW and NE as schools or as agents of a major they disapprove? If you agree to take a more general major such as business, economics, social & behavioural sciences, would they object if you take a few courses in CJ?</p>

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<p>Well, If you had a hard time affording Berkeley back then (not that I came from a lot of money either), I can understand your fiscal concern when considering whether to send your child to a place s/he (s/he is something I picked up at Berkeley) has never been.</p>

<p>That is a flight of fancy.</p>

<p>Of course, it could work if the kid is stubborn enough to make it happen.</p>

<p>The question is, is s/he fickle and likely to fold up tent when the fantasy location isn't what it was cracked up to be?</p>

<p>I guess in our case, having lived in 3 states (not necessarily by choice), and traveled extensively for hockey (drove 20,000 miles for games last year), my daughter has seen a lot of the country and has found that she can fit in anywhere. I don't worry about location and adjustment to culture.</p>

<p>I guess you've got to follow your gut.</p>

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<p>bond35</p>

<p>I agree that criminal justice UG degree is probably too narrow. Knowing a bit about their hiring process, the most common educational backgrounds they hire (for special agents) are foreign language (they are doing a LOT of overseas work) and lawyers.</p>

<p>You can also get work with them (office work) if you get an education in forensic sciences. Nobody better in the world.</p>

<p>Criminal justice is a great degree if your life's goals are working in law enforcement (local/state) or REALLY love criminal law and just can't get enough.</p>

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<p>Of course the decision is up to the parents, unless the student is financing a school on his or her own. Since they are paying for the school, then they obviously should decide how much they are willing to pay and for what type of school.</p>

<p>That said, I do think it is possible that some parents set unfortunate limits on their kids. For example, at my science/tech oriented school, I have heard of kids whose parents are pressuring them to major in a certain field or attend a tech university when they may be interested in something else. In cases like this, I think it is toobad because college is setting the path for a career and if the kid is miserable in that career field then they are set up for problemslater in life.</p>

<p>I've also encountered some kids with parents who are simply uneducated about colleges other than the most prestigious one. One person I know is applying to a bunch of ivies and one state school because if he doesn't get in to a "name" school, then his parents refuse to pay private tuition. This automatically rules out some really good LACs and universities of interest that are probably on par with the ivies he is applying to because his parents don't know anything about them.</p>

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<p>The students can consider this the challenge to work with the counselor to explain which schools the students prefer & WHY. I believe most parents will consider information that is well presented about WHY a particular school will meet the student's academic, career and other needs (beyond just partying or social whims) if there is a good presentation & it is supported by a counselor or other trusted adult source.
Parents can't always know everything and the student that wants to have options needs to take some initiative, especially if the student wants free financing from parents.</p>

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<p>2 things</p>

<ol>
<li><p>my family is not financially challenged and my parents said they still wont pay for me to go to some schools (uconn). i dk if they actually wouldnt, but thats wat they said.</p></li>
<li><p>my parents also said that in the end, i would have sum input, but it would b their decision where i went to college. i think thats total bs but has ne1 else had similar situation?</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>dstark: "Interesting article in Friday's Wall Street Journal called "Opting Out of Private School". It appears some people are tired of the costs of private schools and are looking for public schools where their children can be near the top of their class (the schools have to be of high quality too)."</p>

<p>Dstark -- can you tell us more about the article? As a parent who has kids in private schools, I can sympathize with some frustrations when private school educators turn a "deaf ear" and forget that they are providing an expensive service and should listen when a valid concern is brought to their attention. Instead, they seem to be grossly naive about how a businesses should operate (provide a quality product and admit/address mistakes). These private school educators think parents should continue to pay tuition regardless of the product provided or how problems are addressed. </p>

<p>Last year, when a local private school's principal was fired because a huge number of kids left the school because parents were angry that valid concerns were not addressed, one of the teachers was quoted in the paper as saying the parents "had too much power". Gee... since the only "power" the parents exhibited was removing their kids from the school after they saw problems being ignored, did she think that parents shouldn't even have THAT power and should be forced to keep their kids at the school against their wishes? That teacher's statement was very revealing.... Parents are to pay tuition (and keep paying) regardless of the service just so the faculty can continue receiving pay checks. These people need a real world reality check - bit time! Imagine if any other business behaved this way. Imagine a restaurant that was forced to close because people stopped going there because the food was bad. Imagine the owner being quoted in the paper saying, "customers have too much power because they stopped coming and my restaurant went broke."</p>

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<p>To Goliedad:
Well, funny as it is, I am the only one who is upset by this; my dad didn't mind going to Colorado and he still ended up doing well. He learned more from his travels than in the classroom anyway.</p>

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<p>jlauer, A lot of people would disagree with you, but I totally agree. Well said. BTW, my S attends a state school. It runs like butter. When I see the struggles some students at private colleges have to get courses, red tape, financial aid woes, poor advising, triples or worse etc., I really wonder. Some of these schools charge 40,000+/year and some families are paying the full freight for this! Yikes!</p>

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<p>"2. my parents also said that in the end, i would have sum input, but it would b their decision where i went to college. i think thats total bs but has ne1 else had similar situation?"</p>

<p>crouton, I have friends that have told something similar to their son. I don't know what is going to happen when the actual time comes to choose a college.</p>

<p>jlauer95, I can add that many parents are happy with the switch. They save money and feel the education is still good. Plus, there is usually more diversity.</p>

<p>Some parents aren't that happy. They miss the small class sizes and the personal attention.</p>

<p>That's all I remember. The paper is in the recycle bin.</p>

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<p>quote:</p>

<p>To Goliedad:
Well, funny as it is, I am the only one who is upset by this; my dad didn't mind going to Colorado and he still ended up doing well. He learned more from his travels than in the classroom anyway.</p>

<p>end quote:</p>

<p>My bad, I guess I didn't realize that you were the one upset by your father's situation.</p>

<p>In all though I believe if a student has a good fit (and it sounds like your dad did at Colorado), s/he will do fine. I don't think the "quality" of the university (if you want to take any measure of that) has as much bearing on a student's success in life as his/her fit to the type of school.</p>

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<p>"my parents also said that in the end, i would have some input, but it would be their decision where i went to college. i think thats total bs but has no else had similar situation?"</p>

<p>I think it is a mistake for a parent to DECIDE where a kid goes to college -- the parent is just setting himself up for constant criticism later if the kid doesn't end up loving the school. Can't you just hear that kid after the first bad thing happens at the school -- "YOU CHOSE this school; I didn't!! This is YOUR fault. If I had gone to the school that I wanted, this never would have happened!" </p>

<p>A parent can always express an opinion - help a kid list the pro's and con's of various schools - but never insist that the kid go to one particular school.</p>

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<p>I'm offended by the implication that a 17 or 18 year old does not have "common sense" and can't make the right decision about where to go for the right reasons. Snobbery is no reason to withhold money for school. If your kid wants to go to a particular school because it is the biggest party school in the state, I understand not paying for that. If your kid has done absolutly no research and is chosing at random, I understand that too - but what they need then is help, not pressure. </p>

<p>Don't parents think it's possible that we really know what we're talking about? My top school is not the "best" school in the country, but it is the best for me for a lot of other reasons. My parents may not get it, but they don't know as much about the school as I do. Give your children some credit.</p>