<p>Well put, jlauer. While I didn't say that my D couldn't major in whatever she wanted, I did suggest that she go in-state if she wanted to specialize in a more frivolous field.</p>
<p>kriket, for clarity, can you define "frivolous" in this context?</p>
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What majors lead to a job? Seems to me that the most selective schools and the majority of the students in those schools are NOT in those fields that lead directly to a job or career.
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<p>Do't MOST majors lead to a job, regardless of how selective the school is? Not just the obvious ones, like engineering & accounting & graphic design. But also liberal arts degrees (i.e. English majors hired by publishing firms.) </p>
<p>I think some majors are absolutely pointless (i.e. womens studies,) but most kids choose a major knowing they'd like a career that will utlilize their field of study. Doesn't always work out that way, and often the craziest path leads to a great and unexpected fit. But most people I know (not me) are at least tangentially involved in the field they pursued as undergrads.</p>
<p>Frivolous majors would be performing arts for those who aren't super talented, women's/gender studies. I've seen the occasional unique major that exist at one or just a few colleges that would fall into that category for me.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>An astonishing percentage of the jobs that people work at today did not exist twenty or thirty years ago. <<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>Yes, and as our technology progresses this will happen at an even greater pace. And, many of those new jobs would still need someone to have a degree in a subject other than basket-weaving. Therefore, I think it is a risk to get a degree in a major that is not preparing the person for some career. </p>
<p>(By the way, I don't consider your degree to be a basket-weaving degree.)</p>
<p>Curmy: "What majors lead to a job? .... I guess I have serious qualms about directly linking UG college education with a particular career path . OTOH, my D is convinced of her career path and will maximze her opportunities to achieve that career path in college (Medical Doctor and/or Phd. Medical Research). So, as is usually the case, I have a foot firmly in both camps."</p>
<p>Curmy, I wasn't specifying the need to get a job right after getting the BS -- I'm not excluding the need for many to go professional/law/medical school. B</p>
<p>Therefore, I would say that many majors "lead to a job". Virtually every one of my extended family members (including myself) carefully chose their majors according to their chosen career --- nurse, engineer, pharmacist, teacher, dentist, self-employed, computer scientist, Bio-physicist, attorney, etc.</p>
<p>Hey, what's with the women's studies bashing? At least as valuable as any of the other social sciences/humanities majors. None of which lead directly to careers but which teach you to think, research, write, analyze, reflect, talk on your feet, debate, speak up....I tell my kids if they are excellent readers and writers they can do anything they choose.</p>
<p>Also, what about the notion of career as service? Instead of preparing our kids to be marketable, how about encouraging them to develop passions and find ways to direct those passions toward a need in the world? I got an inspiring email from a friend whose daughter at Oberlin (a women's studies type) took her junior year in Morocco. While there, she started a fair trade rug business with a Johns Hopkins sociology grad student from England doing research in Morocco, working with women artisans in the villages. Will they be millionaires? Probably not. Will they be challenged, fulfilled, and engaged? Yes. Will they be serving a need in the world? Yes, helping Moroccan women provide for their families.</p>
<p>I think much of what we're paying for in higher education is access to people like the ones I've just described. Peers as well as mentors. I had a "useless" major in college, but had an incredible internship in NYC which has led to all kinds of opportunities over the years.</p>
<p>Can't always have a green eyeshade view of the world --</p>
<p>A former co-worker is an accountant. His wife is an accountant too. Not surprisingly they wanted their D to only attend the state u and major in accounting.</p>
<p>...and hey, we need good rug traders, ethnomusicologists and underwater archeologists.</p>
<p>ahimsa: I would argue that nothing learned in her womens studies courses would be useful in helping Moroccan women start a business. Knowledge of commerce, international trade regulations, money & banking, etc. would be helpful. Plus a thorough understanding of the Moroccan culture & knowing who gets the bribe $$$. But studying "The Supression of Women's Voices in Elizabethan England" won't sell many rugs.</p>
<p>dudedad: Do we really NEED ethnomusicologists? I'm a big fan of ethnic music. Really I am. In fact I know an artist selected for the Smithsonian's American folk music series. But even he makes his living as a District Attorney.</p>
<p>Exactly. And I know a few of the best saxophonists around who must drive cabs, deliver mail, etc.</p>
<p>Or you can be like my husband- he's an engineer that plays in a band on weekends!</p>
<p>I've always told my kids that their goal should be to find something that they feel passionate about and then see how they can make a living doing that. I'm hoping (pretty sure) that a liberal arts education will help my son find something that does just that. My daughter knew that she wanted to teach early on but we did not force her to go to a state university because we realized that there is more to college then just the degree. </p>
<p>Our kids were free to go anywhere that they wanted to for college but we told them what our bottom line was when they first started looking. After they crossed that line, they would be taking out loans. We weren't trying to be mean. we just would like to retire before we are 80 and like to eat regular meals.....</p>
<p>The only job in the world my undergraduate degree might have qualified me for -- movie reviewer for the Vatican newspaper -- also required a Roman collar. I didn't have one. But I have done alright anyway.</p>
<p>Honestly, I cannot imagine a more "useless" undergraduate educational pursuit than my own. Thank God my parents had the wisdom to see that I was learning much more than Latin poetry and the genius of Buster Keaton's short films. My view is, whatever you want to learn, learn. All learning begets usefulness.</p>
<p>"ahimsa: I would argue that nothing learned in her womens studies courses would be useful in helping Moroccan women start a business. Knowledge of commerce, international trade regulations, money & banking, etc. would be helpful." </p>
<p>Being smart women, I'm sure they will learn all of the above as it becomes necessary. My point is that if you are well trained in the liberal arts, when you need more information about something, you can teach it to yourself or find an expert to teach it to you. That's the whole purpose of a liberal arts education--to be well-rounded, intellectually curious, flexible.</p>
<p>"Plus a thorough understanding of the Moroccan culture & knowing who gets the bribe $$$." </p>
<p>I bet they picked this up within the first week. As for the cultural understanding, of course that takes years of immersion and effort, and what excellent training a humanities major will already have for this task.</p>
<p>"But studying "The Supression of Women's Voices in Elizabethan England" won't sell many rugs."</p>
<p>No book carefully read is ever wasted. But frankly, these women probably did not read this book in their women's studies classes. They probably did read "Islam, Women, and Village Life in North Africa" and "Economics of Survival for Women in Morocco" etc.</p>
<p>Will these women join the ranks of artists/activists/humanities Ph.Ds who supplement their measly wages waiting tables? Honestly--maybe. But I would argue that in general my artist friends are far more fulfilled than my frustrated wealthy friends in the professions. (And their kids can go to Harvard for free.)</p>
<p>Yes, we need ethnomusicologists! This level of reflection and understanding and communication and intellectual inquiry are at the heart of what it means to be human. We need all the other jobs too, from firefighting to accounting and all the jobs we can't yet imagine. We don't know yet what our kids will be able to contribute, but we plan to support them in whatever they love and want to commit themselves to.</p>
<p>A thought that some people often miss: grad school is increasingly common and very expensive. While it makes sense to pay for MIT, knowing the opportunities that come out of that pay for itself, why pay for NYU or BU when that means that you can't help your kid with grad school?</p>
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Being smart women, I'm sure they will learn all of the above as it becomes necessary.
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<p>But how much better it would have been for the Moroccan rug sellers if the women working with the artisans had a business background from the getgo.</p>
<p>We don't NEED ethnomusicologists. Intellectual inquiry and living the "life of the mind" are pursuits that can be completely seperate from formal degree chasing. Now, if my kid wants to be an ethnomusicologist with the full understanding that she might wait tables to pay the bills, then that's her choice. But those menial jobs can really put a damper on one's fullfillment over time. She'd probably be more fullfilled if she pursued her music on evenings and weekends while working at some career-focused position, rather than a pay-the-bills type job.</p>
<p>Is the parent paying for the child's education or for bragging rights?
A parent should have input, but the choice should be the kid's. It's part of growing up.<br>
I guess I would give the parents a little leeway if the support or lack of is values driven. A parent might provide financial support only at a college that is affiliated with and actively promotes a particular creed. This is hard to swallow. I personally might stand on the other side of that line-- I would be reluctant to pay for my children to attend a college where I believe they would get a severely crabbed world view.</p>
<p>I have not read the whole thread, but nobody seems to have addressed the number of kids who get out into the real world and are dissapointed at what they find, or don't find, themselves qualified for. Or by the amout of money their intended profession yields and what that buys them. $40K sounds like a lot to most 18 year olds.</p>
<p>Dstark stared the thread talking about reasoning not being fully developed when kids are making a college choice. This is a great point imo. Something I worry about in watching my now junior's thought process in evaluating schools. She is really impressed that Amherst has great dining rooms with rich dark woods and Persian carpets. It feels very homey. She has no clue what majors are strong there. As she doesn't know what she wants to major in, she isn't at all looking at schools from that perspective.</p>
<p>When her uncle recently visited and talked to her about college and careers, DH and I sat back and listened. There are many clues in what she articulates. Everything points to business, yet Wharton isn't on her list because she didn't particularly like the college tour tape. Penn just wasn't what she pictures, an ivy covered pretty campus.</p>
<p>This is a very high achieving, relatively mature, well travelled teenager. But she doesn't know what she doesn't know. Will she be sorry somewhere down the line? Do we stand back and let her choose the criteria by which to choose a college when we know her methodolgy is faulty? We know she has high expectations for her career and for life in general. </p>
<p>What's a parent to do?</p>
<p>"Honestly, I cannot imagine a more "useless" undergraduate educational pursuit than my own. Thank God my parents had the wisdom to see that I was learning much more than Latin poetry and the genius of Buster Keaton's short films. My view is, whatever you want to learn, learn. All learning begets usefulness."</p>
<p>I agree with the above paragraph. </p>
<p>I also agree that if you study Buster Keaton (long films too) you can learn plenty.</p>
<p>That scene in Sherlock Jr. when the building falls down... priceless.</p>
<p>I would love for my kids to take a class on Buster Keaton.</p>
<p>"But she doesn't know what she doesn't know."</p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>One problem is we don't know either.</p>
<p>"What is a parent to do?"</p>
<p>Don't know.</p>