<p>I think it is better to just say "I'll contribute x amount of money towards college." This simplifies things and maintains the relationship.</p>
<p>Re: Majors and jobs. </p>
<p>Yes, in many a sense, a lot of majors lead to a job. Having a BA can be necessary to get in the door. An English major should indicate that you can read and write; a philosophy major, that you can think; an engineering major, that you are analytical. I do think that there are some purely "fluff" majors that should only be taken as double majors. An employer should be able to look at the degree, and, without thinking too hard, figure out how that education will translate into the marketplace.</p>
<p>That all said, I loved the fact that I was an engineer. I got internships, experience, a fantastic education (can we rid ourselves of the idea that all majors are created equal, or that "trade" majors don't provide an education?), and it's very useful professionally. I also double-majored, but that was for me. (In fact, the liberal arts major indicates that I actually know how to write.)</p>
<p>There is a lot of truth that a college diploma is the new high school diploma. What was possible back in the 1970s is not so true today. Keep that in mind as your kids consider schools and majors.</p>
<p>I saw a great cartoon: 2 kids playing in a sandbox, and 1 says to the other, "So what are your plans for your first retirement?"</p>
<p>The way we approach education is the way we approach career. It's very common now to have 2, 3, even 4 careers in a lifetime. It's age appropriate (at least in middle class America) for an 18 year-old to have little idea of career and how education might relate to career. That's what grad school is for. Even in that rare decisive 18 year-old who has chosen a path, that's only their 1st path. They will grow, change, and evolve, and their careers will reflect that, hopefully.</p>
<p>Some will say with the wisdom of age that it's better to have a stable, well paying career and pursue "frivolous" hobbies on weekends. But one has to come to that on their own, after life experience. Thus the MSWs, MS Library Science, teaching certifications and other degrees that many humanities majors get in their 30s. Some will never arrive at this point. </p>
<p>As for funding grad school for our kids, we're not saving for it. At this point is when you apply for fellowships, work as TAs.... Realistically we will contribute to it, but I'm not doubling the college fund in anticipation of grad school.</p>
<p>^everything ahimsa said I agree with.</p>
<p>Our kids are not going to college for careers. They're going for educations. My select LAC grad D goes door to door advocating for the environment. I don't think her expensive education was the least bit wasted. She supports herself--it helps that we have brought them up to not need a lot of material things. She believes in the work she does. her education is part of her. When she wants to go to grad school, she can do the TA route, or she can do loans. Because she lives frugally, she will be able to pay them off. </p>
<p>My S, the Ivy student, is thinking poker as a career (already making tidy sums off his classmates.) But he's also getting a great GPA in a very challenging school, learning enormous amounts of stuff, stretching his mind among other good minds. That's why he's there. Not for a job.</p>
<p>My kids know we can't support them when they're older (unless they'd like to share the tiny shore bungalow we plan to move to some day). They know we're not sending them to grad school. We're giving them the gift of wonderful educations--no one can take that away from them.</p>
<p>I'm just glad I get to sit on the sidelines and watch where they go, wherever they go--what a privilege!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Bravo, Garland</p>
<p>" I've seen the occasional unique major that exist at one or just a few colleges that would fall into that category for me."</p>
<p>I'm sure Will Schortz's parents were horrified when he made up a major in "puzzles", but he's made it his career quite successfully. </p>
<p>I really am of the school of telling your kid how much money you'll support them with and for how long. If they choose a "useless" major, that's their problem not yours.</p>
<p>I agree with Garland and Ahimsa. In fact, I encouraged S1 to pursue math and physics instead of engineering. (Not that there's anything wrong with engineering!!!) I just didn't think he was cut out for such a concrete major. He's better off learning the theory.</p>
<p>H has degrees in math, and works as a software architect/engineer. Technology keeps changing, but the ability to define and solve problems stands him in good stead.</p>
<p>Not to be snitty, but may I give y'all a wake-up call? Yes, some grad schools pay for themselves - science & engineering masters/PhD come to mind. I do know some people who paid for their masters, or whose stipends do not cover the rapidly rising cost of tuition (hum, sound familiar?)</p>
<p>Some universities will give financial aid. Others are rarely funded - ex. masters in women's studies. For law and medicine, the "take out loans" approach is just mental. Run the numbers. A student who puts herself through law school, starting 2007, will borrow about $60,000 for the first year, $63,000 for the 2d year, and $65,000 for the 3d year (urban universities). State schools, as I've pointed out in other threads, won't run much cheaper. UVA - $45,000/year in state. UMich - about the same. </p>
<p>I want to know how "living frugally" makes a quarter million in loans and interest just go "poof!" Six-figure tuition bills, at least in my world, are something a bit beyond "living frugally." Watching your money saves you a few thousand per year. Given how very little the student loans cover anyway (my living allowance is about $10,000/year - rent, food, insurance, gas, travel to regional interviews, utilities, etc etc), it's ridiculous to think that a student can live on much below the allowance. There's still six figures of debt, gaining interest at 5% or 6% per year. It's not a matter of budgeting; it's a matter of taking on a crushing debt burden to attend professional school (law, medicine, business, probably accounting). </p>
<p>Not to be snitty, but I can't help but think that your attitudes about grad school are about as relevant to 2006 as tuition in the 70s would be. </p>
<p>So you can say, "Oh, my kid will take out loans for grad school," but if that grad school is law or medicine, your kid will be, best case scenario, taking out over $100,000 in loans. It is MENTAL to look at education as a four-year endeavour for many students. If there is a fixed amount of money that you are willing to pay (or would be willing to help out with med school if she takes a scholarship), then that should be discussed. </p>
<p>I can't help but think that parents who make those statements just have no idea that professional school is more expensive than college. If that's what your kid wants to do, or ends up doing, she should know what bill lies ahead. As a family, you can plan for it.</p>
<p>I never said that you had to double your savings - that's absurd. You can at least look at education as a six or seven or eight year expense and figure out how to make the money stretch for that time.</p>
<p>Totally agree Garland. Stretch the mind. Grow in spirit. Mature in body. Glimpse the world outside of the town you grew up in. Learn to ask the right questions as opposed to memorizing the right answers. Majors will change. Jobs will come. Find a school that has opportunities for internships. Find a school with great study abroad support. Set budgets or parameters that fit your family needs and send the kids forth. I've said it before, but there is no "gimme" at the end of college. Hopefully if all the above have occured they will find their way. It may be a completely different "way" than you took but they will find their way. I have hope.</p>
<p>I cherish my "fluffy" undergrad degree. (BFA in Dance, anyone?) And my husband cherishes his. (BA in Humanities, anyone?) Luckily my parents and his didn't think that providing some college funds meant dictating degrees :eek:</p>
<p>Aries--my H left med school with six figure loans in the 1980s. And then chose a comparatively low specialty--pediatrics--and a really comparatively low path--inner city clinics. We managed.</p>
<p>Neither one of my kids will be going to med school. Law school--if they were to choose a high paying specialty, no problem. If one of them wanted to do public interest law, then either the merit route at lower tiered schools, or the loan forgiveness route at higher tiered. Or they do something else.</p>
<p>Masters degrees? Loans, again. We can do frugal like you wouldn't believe.</p>
<p>PhD? Fellowships.</p>
<p>I think if you want it enough, you can do it. I don't think they need mom and dad to pay for it--they'll use those good minds they have to move forward, I have no doubt.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is a very high achieving, relatively mature, well travelled teenager. But she doesn't know what she doesn't know. Will she be sorry somewhere down the line?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>zagat, this exactly describes my d. One year behind yours. When you figure it out, let me know.</p>
<p>ariesathena: I think your aversion to shouldering crushing debt is very wise. Perhaps I'm in your corner because both H & I returned to school on the company dime. Isn't this done any more? I couldn't imagine considering home ownership, kids, & a reasonably comfortable lifestyle with huge grad school loans waiting to be paid back. I'll preach the same sermon to my kids when college is chosen. You can grow in spirit, stretch the mind, and glimpse the outside world without having to spend $180,000.</p>
<p>
Send her to college. Preferably one with a variety of majors and let her figure it out. Isn't that what college is for? I do think that letting the child choose the college is important, unless it is unaffordable or unworkable for other reasons. Sometimes kids know something about themselves that they can't articulate. Most of us, I'd guess, changed majors and maybe even colleges at least once. </p>
<p>My problem with dictating either college or major is that I don't want to be responsible if it doesn't work out! I'm a big believer in letting kids make this type of decision (with some input from mom and dad) and then live with the consequences. If we had insisted that S1 attend a school he didn't like, I didn't want to hear about it for the next 40 years.</p>
<p>My major was sociology--never wanted to DO anything with it but it was a degree my folks could live with (they rejected the one I had preferred, "Community Service & Public Affairs"). In any case, it got me into law school. One great thing about my somewhat "fluffy" major is that I was allowed to work closely with several profs & write an honor's thesis & graduate with honors. I learned a lot by writing the thesis about researching a problem & writing a coherent, in-depth paper about it & also had a wonderful senior year. Many schools now have a senior or capstone project which has students go through a similar process.</p>
<p>zagat, I wouldn't worry too much about your daughter. Kids get two shots at a business degree. If they don't do it undergrad, they can always do an MBA program later.</p>
<p>Of course, you might want to try to find some colleges that combine the attractiveness of Amherst with the availability of business courses. But I think it's better to do this by persuasion rather than financial blackmail.</p>
<p>May I suggest the University of Virginia? Beautiful campus, nice town, friendly slightly Southern people, and it has an upper-division business school, meaning that the eventual business majors start out in Arts and Sciences and switch to business halfway through. You wouldn't even have to mention the word "business" to your daughter, but you would know that the option is available. UVa is hard to get into from out of state, but anyone with the credentials to consider Amherst would have a chance.</p>
<p>Zagat, if your daughter is interested in business, there are many paths. A degree in almost any area from Amherst would prepare her, since I'm sure she'd graduate as a wonderful writer, with good quantitative and analytical skills. In my experience, unless she wants to be an accountant or work in Information Systems, any number of degree options would help her in business. Econ might be a good choice.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the great feedback.</p>
<p>The thing about my daughter is that it won't be about financial blackmail or even arm twisting. She's asking for guidance. She is overwhelmed by all the choices and retreats into her comfort zone, feel good schools. She has gone to small, nurturing schools her entire life. She has often visited the small, beautiful LACs her father and I attended. She has never lived in a city.</p>
<p>I guess I didn't articulate that DH and I are concerned that if she doesn't expand her comfort zone now, she never will. We saw her eyes widen when her uncle, very successful in business, explained that a degree from a top undergrad business program would get her a job most MBAs can't get. The next day she went to her stack of campus tour videos and again watched
Penn and MIT. Both in cities, both not ivy covered. We listened to her sigh.</p>
<p>For a sure career, forget college altogether, and learn a trade. Electricians and plumbers make a very nice living, and there isn't all that nasty debt to consider.</p>
<p>I don't think that a median income from $16.40 an hour to $19.80 an hour for plumbers, is a * very nice* income.</p>
<p>Not considering how hard they work and how union jobs ( that have benefits) are hard to find.</p>
<p>Not discounting trades, but blue collar workers income has stagnated if not decreased while COL has gone up.</p>
<p>But I also think that it is fine for parents to be upfront about what they will or wont pay for.
Upfront is the key word
Hopefully, they don't wait till childs senior year to have "the talk"</p>