<p>SS--H tried private practice for a year; he actually prefered his inner city patients and families more.</p>
<p>His idealism is still intact, but the managed care/adverarial/low-funding/lonnnnggg hours conditions took their toll. He's a happy high school teacher now.</p>
<p>garland, I should have clarified who the "poverty pimps" were. Not the patients! He was referring to the Sharpe James type politicians who bleed the community dry, posturing while pocketing $$$$.</p>
<p>Oh, I understood that! And I think we are all glad to see someone else in charge there. I really, really hope Cory Booker lives up to expectations. I see the results every day of the status quo; the people in Newark deserve something different.</p>
<p>Ariesathena, you are right in terms of absolute dollars these days. Tuition has increased to a point where budgeting to afford it has become pretty much impossible for many of us with taking loans and saving money before the fact. However, in my experience, both in the past and now, those who are going on with graduate schools in departmental studies tend to get fellowships, stipends, grants, jobs to continue their studies. It seems that the market is quite efficient and aware that folks are not likely to fork over the money for an English PHD, and that if a program is going to continue, the universities have to cough up some way for the doctorate students to continue. I do not know a single person who went on to full time graduate (not professional) studies without getting subsidized by the programs, and I don't mean by loans. Not that they are living a rich life; to the contrary they are living poverty level or below, but getting by. In fact a friend of ours' son is getting his law degree paid by a grant/fellowship from the philosphy dept of his college as he is doubling as a JD/Phd. This is paying for a goodly part of his law degree for which he cannot get a dime of free money, only loans. I guess the market recognizes that an advanced degree in law, medicine, business pays off monetarily, but departmental phds are not lucrative.</p>
<p>A parent can have some control over what school their child attends, assuming the parent is the one paying for it. But choice of major can never be anything more than a suggestion on our part. The college isn't likely to ask our permission for a student to change from an accounting major to guerilla theater or whatever.</p>
<p>kriket, That is very true. It does remind of a young man who decided that he would like to major in theatre. His parents did not want him to do this, and I guess he discussed it with them, or they asked to see which classes he was enrolled in. One of his professors called the young man's parents for him, and told them why he thought their son should major in theatre. The professor stated that in undergraduate school it is the only time that he felt that one could choose to study what one wanted to study. Parents reluctantly agreed.</p>
<p>Paying for grad school is a whole other discussion. This time we're talking about young adults, not adolescents. The question then becomes how much should we be providing for our young adult children? The answer will vary widely. I have a friend with a 25 year-old son, never finished HS, living at home, working part time, who pays only $50 month. I know a 40-something woman whose dad still pays her rent.</p>
<p>The cost of professional schools, as ariesathena describes, is hugely problematic, not just for the students, their parents, but also bodes ill of our nation that we have let it get this exclusive. I would almost call it a scam, exploiting our addiction to elitism and prestige and ultimately addiction to "lifestyle." If our schools are going to take that much money from students then we need corresponding grants and debt forgiveness for going into public service etc. I agree with what garland and others have said about state schools and such.</p>
<p>If my kids want to get a professional degree--so far no one is biting--I will tell them to do what their dad did for law school. Work first, then apply as a financial independent. They'll get far more aid. And if they want the degree badly enough, waiting 2-3 years and getting some real life work experience won't hurt them.</p>
<p>Ha! I told D no Hawaii, mostly because I believe the only reason she would go would be location. If she did some research to make a persuasive case, maybe I would pay. So the kid going to Lang has to support it with something more than "it's in NY."</p>
<p>
[quote]
If my kids want to get a professional degree--so far no one is biting--I will tell them to do what their dad did for law school. Work first, then apply as a financial independent. They'll get far more aid. And if they want the degree badly enough, waiting 2-3 years and getting some real life work experience won't hurt them.
[/quote]
LOL! Um, I applied as a financial independent and got absolutely nothing. I hate to tell you guys, but there is almost no need-based aid for law school. Everyone is considered to be financially independent. </p>
<p>UVA, in-state, is in the realm of $45,000/year. How is that affordable???? Oh, the super-cheap W&M will only cost $30,000 for the first year, so it's $100,000 of debt.</p>
<p>I've seen over and over again look at overall rep, not particular program. Many, many change intended majors. It would be a shame to be someplace ONLY for its reputation in one program and find out she isn't really interested in the field.
So, she likes Amherst(?), and it's strong overall. Probably reasonable placement, but maybe not immediate big bucks (quite possible down the road). And if she finds she wants to pursue business, there is graduate school. I know, I know, why pay for two more years when she could have covered most, if not all, of the ground in an UG program? Possible anwers: well-roundedness, D more confident and certain of decision if not pushed to it early, MBA carries more weight than BBA. (However, if grad school looks likely save the big name for the grad school and go to more affordable, yet solid UG).</p>
<p>I was unhappy that I still had to submit parent's financial infor law school after six years on my own. On the other hand, I was able to save some $ during that time.</p>
<p>I think choosing the college is the student's choice, but it's certainly up to the parents to establish how much they can contribute to the student's education. I kind of cringe when I see parents dictating life choices to 18-year olds. "No school farther than 200 miles because we want to visit often" is one I've heard.</p>
<p>Advice and suggestions are great... but college is the first big choice that the student will live with for the rest of his/her life. </p>
<p>I do understand the fear that a student will make an bad college choice for the wrong reasons, like staying with a boyfriend/girlfriend, wanting to keep a group of HS friends together, etc. I don't really have a great solution for this situation other than trying to put things in perspective.</p>
<p>I also see as a parent that money issues CAN vary depending on the college. A parent might be willing to rack up some extra debt for Harvard, but not an expensive but uninspiring private college. (Note that prestige may not be a factor - perhaps the "best fit" college from the parental standpoint is an expensive LAC.) The best way to deal with this, I think (without being heavy handed and dictating where to apply) is to establish the parent contribution limit up front, but encourage the kid to apply to schools of interest to see how financial aid, merit scholarships, etc. turn out. If the student ends up being accepted somewhere that both the parents and student think is perfect but there's a gap in resources, mom & dad can always decide to up the spending limit a bit.</p>
<p>I count myself lucky that our kids chose schools wisely (in our opinion), so we avoided the "I'm not paying $xx,xxx for you to go THERE" issue.</p>
<p>Touche, ariesathena, I hear you. You are indeed painting a bleak picture for which I have no solution. How many families can afford what you are describing? However, I did check out our local options in WI, and UW Madison is still under 6K for residents. Marquette is closer to what you describe, but 20-25 percent receive merit aid, between 5-10K. H and I have put all our eggs into the college basket. We are happy to encourage our 3 kids to go to the college of their choice. Like most other families we will not have any money left for expensive grad schools. What's the answer? We should write to our congress people, protest, demand educational reform and subsidized education. Move to Canada? I do not think it realistic to expect parents to pay for 7-8 years of expensive private higher education. 3 kids x 8 years = 24 years of $40K+? No can do.</p>
<p>We do not plan to pay for grad school either, although we do plan to pay full freight (unless some lovely merit aid comes knocking) for undergrad. I managed to get through grad school, poor as a church mouse, with grants, stipends, work/study, and what meager savings I had before going. I am going to expect the same of my kids, because the buck has to stop somewhere, and I have the same No Can Do attitude as Ahimsa.</p>
<p>As I said above, count me in. No CAn Do here, either. But I raised Can Do kids, and they'll figure it out.</p>
<p>There was a post about business school recruitment about 25 posts ago and I saw this on another thread.</p>
<p>I think my math major kid at Michigan should have majored in business.</p>
<p>BBA Graduate from Michigan Top Hiring Companies
Company Number of Hires </p>
<p>Credit Suisse Group 14
JPMorgan Chase & Co. 12
UBS AG 10
Goldman, Sachs & Co. 9
Microsoft Corporation 8
PricewaterhouseCoopers, LLP 7
Citigroup 7
Deutsche Bank AG 7
Target Corporation 7
Bank of America 6
Ernst & Young LLP 5
McKinsey & Company 5
Morgan Stanley 5
The Bear Stearns Companies Inc 5
Lehman Brothers Inc. 4
American Express Company 4
A.T. Kearney, Inc. 4
Deloitte & Touche LLP 3
ZS Associates 3
ABN AMRO Holding N.V. 3
CIBC World Markets 3
Rothschild Inc. 3</p>
<p>Understood, Garland. Just pointing out that it can be good for parents to look at higher education as a six or seven or eight year process. Many parents may be willing to give money to the kid for grad school if they get a full ride (or partial) for undergrad - i.e. parent has $100k set aside, and if one college costs $115,000 and another costs $50,000, the kid might take Option 2 if that means $50k will be available for med school or law school. Or even study abroad. Or starting-off money to help with first apartment, new-used car upon graduation, etc. Just saying that it can't hurt to help your kid look years down the road. </p>
<p>State schools do vary by price, but you should add in room/board/books as well - which will put any school into the $20,000/year category. After all, if it has to be paid, then you're taking out loans for it. (Even in rural areas, a student should have about $50,000 saved if they want to not take out loans for anything but tuition. That's with frugal living.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
"BU is so much better than the University of Illinois."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In some majors, UIUC is clearly better and in others BU is clearly better. Like take accounting for example. UI is clearly better if you want to do accounting. But if you take another major....say, communications, BU will clearly be better.</p>
<p>"Move to Canada? I do not think it realistic to expect parents to pay for 7-8 years of expensive private higher education. 3 kids x 8 years = 24 years of $40K+? No can do."</p>
<p>My mother actually thinks that sending your children to college either in Canada or another country is the way to go, b/c schools in the US are so expensive, and because it takes so many years for some to finish. She always quips about this country being the only one where everyone is a student until they are 30! My mother was very serious about advising me to send my childrent to another country for a college education.
Oh, and she also says that most folks cannot afford 40,000/year (even for one year)!</p>
<p>My niece was offered merit aid from a law school, even tho she never applied for nor would qualify for need-based FAid. Ultimately, she chose to go to in-state flagship U & live at home because she wants to practice in HI. (The other law school offered her even more merit aid, attempting to get her to go their school, but she remained firm in her choice.) She was very happy in HI & is now clerking for the appellate court & has a job next year at a great labor law firm.</p>