<p>Chi Psi HQ closed the chapter at this college. The men involved were prosecuted as they should be. The incidents all occurred at a college in Colorado, not Columbia University where the OP's son attends. The student populations are very different. If my kid was in college in NYC, I think I would be more worried about the student getting mugged than being forced to drink alcohol.</p>
<p>I hardly think that Greeks are the only ones drinking excessively in college. Take a look at some campuses where there is no or minimal Greek life. Again, contact the Greek Advisor at the school. The University Campus Police will also have statistics on student misbehavior ie number of disturbances in dorms, fraternity houses, etc.</p>
<hr>
<p>According to NPC rules on hazing, asking a pledge to do anything that a initiated member isn't required to do is considered hazing. So unless a initiate was scrubbing the sink right beside you, that would be hazing.</p>
<p>I appreciate that the rush activities give new kids something fun to do, help them meet people and so on. Also, that the Greek system provides a social life in towns that might otherwise be "dead" socially. </p>
<p>However, I feel an unpleasant undercurrent behind the welcome week rush, in the sense that naive new freshmen may not fully recognize the marketing aspect of the rush events, (as when car salespeople act superfriendly). Also, in looking at some of the rush events, I see "hookah day at the beach" and "steak and cigar night". I don't appreciate dropping my son off at college and finding his new "friends" actively pushing tobacco on him. He tried smoking in high school, and I just got that stamped out before he left home. He does not need that type of organized and school-sanctioned peer pressure to smoke. (Grrrr)</p>
<p>Thanks for your advice and comments, I was sitting alone stewing about it!</p>
<p>
[quote]
and my impression is that it is less true of sororities in general
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with this. From talking to girls I know in sororities, they may spend time doing somewhat silly tasks, making arts and crafts items, planning for events, etc. but I have not heard anything about forced drinking or physical punishment (for lack of better word). However, some of the stories I've heard from guys I couldn't believe. I think too that guys are very unlikely to complain or report incidents of hazing. One boy a few years back, at a college of a friend's child, reported hazing. The frat was disciplined, but the boy's life was made so miserable by other students that he dropped out midsemester and changed schools the next term.</p>
<p>They just helped organize the BIGGEST HUG in the world at the CU-ASU football game. </p>
<p>The G.O.R.D. organization was formed in honor of Lynn Gordon Bailey Jr., "Gordie." Gordie was a freshman at the University of Colorado who died of acute alcohol poisoning a month into his freshman year. During his brief time at CU he touched the lives of many students with his positive and outgoing attitude. G.O.R.D., was founded by a small group of undergraduate alumni of Chi Psi and former pledge brothers, who wished to carry on his legacy by helping others.</p>
<p>Also, I invite anyone who might believe this is a simplistic anti-frat movement to check the website of the Gordie Foundation. </p>
<p>Late to the thread but responding to post #14 from Motherdear,
"I prefer fall rush as the new freshmen are less apt to know or to believe the stereotypes about the different groups."</p>
<p>My son's college does not allow rush until second semester and requires a 2.5 gpa before one can pledge. More important then worrying about sterotyping is the time for the freshman to get themselves academically planted and figure out how they feel about the Greek system on their campus.</p>
<p>My child's college (just up the road from your boy's school) also has deferred recruitment. In fact 5 out of the 7 colleges to which she applied have recruitment in January. There are positives and negatives to fall or spring rush. The biggest plus for deferred rush is the grade issue. Most groups can't initiate the members if GPAs are under a certain number (the exact requirement varies by individual GLO). New member periods are very short now, usually 6-8 weeks. If rush is held in the fall, the fall grades won't be in and the GLOs have to base it on midterm and hs grades.</p>
<p>The other plus about deferred recruitment is that it is supposed to create a class bond between the freshmen.</p>
<p>My son's college encouraged parents as well as students to take the alcohol.edu course, so I did. The course said students who were Greek drank more than those who were not Greek. That doesn't mean non-Greek students don't drink, but parents should be be more concerned about drinking if their children pledge a fraternity or sorority.</p>
<p>"But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!"</p>
<p>From an outside article:
[quote]
Hale said the university is limited in what it can do to impact the greek system because it is a consortium of private organizations not affiliated with the university.</p>
<p>"We have little control over the organizations," she said.
[/quote]
A lot of schools have moved to take control of fraternities, buying the fraternities houses and providing things like insurance and repairs in exchange for being able to control the organizations. Maybe more schools should do so.</p>
<p>Greek life varies so much depending on the individual college that it is very difficult to make blanket statements of any kind. My husband and I were both greek, but our oldest son, who is a senior, opted not to join a greek organization even though he knew that our experiences were very positive. Our younger son who is a freshman has chosen not to pledge this semester, but thinks it very likely that he may do so in the future. </p>
<p>On a positive note, during my collegiate days, my sorority had the highest gpa of any housing unit on campus, independent or greek!</p>
<p>Oh for the good old days. Recently my mother (age 75) showed me the silver spoon she received for being the "sister" in her house holding the highest gpa for the year.</p>
<p>Usually (but not always), overall Greek men average GPA is higher than overall men average GPA. Same goes for the women for Greek vs. nonGreek. At my D's school, even the lowest sorority beats the non Greek women.</p>
<p>Drinking and GPAs aside, my main dislike of fraternities and sororities is that most are not open to all. They give 19 and 20 year olds the power to decide who is <em>worthy</em> and who is <em>unworthy,</em> and usually the decision is made on some fairly superficial factors. You can talk all you want about "bonding" and "community" but in my mind the exclusionary values they teach and reinforce give a clear message: "We're the only ones good enough for THIS community." Sorry, but to me, that negates any "bonding" that may occur between members, and I personally would be very disappointed in my children for joining a club with that attitude. I'd rather they spend their college years meeting people of all types, and not depend on a socially exclusive club for their sense of community.</p>
<p>Greeks are social clubs. I'm sure nobody's kid on this forum is friends with every kid from their hs or from their college. You meet many different students in your different circles. Joing a GLO doesn't mean that you will socialize with only your brothers/sisters. </p>
<p>It is certainly the parents' choice to forbid their offspring from joining an "exclusive" social club (not my words) in college. Although my parents did not join Greek organizations in their undergraduate years, I am glad that they were open to the fact that this was something important to me (and subsequently to my younger siblings). Now that I have a daughter in college, I will respect her decision to join or not to join a sorority.</p>
<p>If you don't want your kid to pledge, then I would make sure that he/she understood that he/she had to pay for all the costs associated with it -- monthly dues, pins, initiation fees, etc. I don't know how much the costs are these days, but I remember when I was in a sorority (30 years ago) and I had to pay for all of it myself -- and it was quite costly for me.</p>
<p>I would not pay for these things if my kid wanted to be in the greek system. Once I told my son that, he kind of lost interest.</p>
<p>Who can give some insight as to how much monthly dues are these days & other costs?</p>
<p>Each GLO sets its own rates. Comparing 2 groups on the same campus will usually have similar rates. Costs can vary whether or not the group has a house the GLO owns, if it leases a living space from the university etc.</p>
<p>GLOs are required to give a printed breakdown of costs to a rushee during the recruitment period so that there are no surprises on the part of the new member or the parents. </p>
<p>I was able to pull up specific financial obligations on a random group at a random school. The info is there on the college info pages.</p>
<p>Gosh, I forgot all about this thread. Kid is now a junior, and has always paid his own fraternity dues and fees, as we would not. </p>
<p>The title of this thread, posted when he was a first year, was a play off another thread at the time posted by a mother who was a nervous wreck because her son or daughter, I can't remember which, did not get into a Greek organization. Just goes to show how embarrassing I would probably find it to go back and read a lot of my posts...</p>
<p>Motherdear, you entirely missed my point. I'm not worried about kids who ARE in sororities or fraternities missing out with socializing with others, but rather, the kids they refuse to let in not getting the same benefits of "community" and "bonding" that you tout so highly. Yes, my kids have friends from all walks of life, but they do not exclude others from their circle of friends just because they didn't meet some superficial standard of being "good enough" to join the club. Ironically, those who are IN the club often seem to have difficulty with the concept of the downside of others being excluded.</p>
<p>The costs always get brought up, whether in terms of "buying one's friends" (which is what Carolyn is essentially bringing up in more vague terms) or in the basis that joining a greek house is a huge financial obligation. Name me any other international organization that doesn't charge dues as part of membership. It's simply a fact of being a part of an organization. And at least for me, the money that was spent on dues to the general fraternity I have a much better sense of where that money is going compared to the money I spent joining the AMA or the American Medical Student Association when I started medical school. </p>
<p>As for the exclusiveness...that same arguement could be made against the campus newspaper, or the band, or other groups on campus that are fairly all encompassing in terms of time commitment. Those groups certainly have similar issues of exclusiveness...</p>