<p>sac, what's the verdict? Are you happy that your son joined the frat? did you see an increase in binge drinking?</p>
<p>Just curious. My father was president of his fraternity and president of the Big 10 Intrafraternity council--and an offical BMOC. My husband was also a frat boy--though I hated frats when I was at univeristy. I never went to frat parties and I CERTAINLY never dated any frat guys! LOL.</p>
<p>It wouldn't be my first choice for my boys but as they keep telling me: those are their choices to make....</p>
<p>Dues are quite expensive - I'm paying my own (well what is not covered by my scholarship) and it is essentially taking all my summer job earnings (although I wouldn't have had as good a summer job as I did without my fraternity anyway). But I do not consider it "buying friends". The brothers of my fraternity did not just give me a bid because I was willing to pay and none of them are my friends just because I pay dues. </p>
<p>As for the exclusivity - I am a sophomore this year, which means I have a hand in deciding who does and who does not get a bid this winter. I've met quite a few freshman guys already this term and am eagerly looking forward to getting to know them better and meeting even more. And I can tell you one thing, when I think about who I want to join my fraternity, I do not think of the clothes they wear, where they are from, or whether they play lacrosse (unless they're from New Jersey of course, no way we're taking anyone from Jersey - jk of course). Instead I think about whether I would enjoy living, eating and working with this person for at least two and a half years. </p>
<p>And I still don't understand this exclusion thing. If I only had friends from my fraternity, I would have only 25 guys to choose from. I have friends in several different fraternities and sororities and some of my best friends are independent. Of course I spend most of my time with my fraternity brothers but that is because I am living with them, eating meals with them and planning and putting on events with them - not because I feel I'm better than everybody else because of the fraternity I am a member of.</p>
<p>My son's dues are $800 and then there are the additional expenses for special events. I would never pay for frat dues - shudder. I can't believe I missed this thread. My son is in a frat and I absolutely hate it. There is no hope of justifying, to me, the presence of Greek life on a college campus so no need to try unless you can tell me how the presence is positive for all students on campus.......</p>
<p>The exclusivity is clear - students are given bids, they are voted on, the criteria is..........what? We just read that one member's criteria is whether or not he wants to live with this guy. Most of us want to live with people we are in harmony with - they think like us, they act like us, heck, they probably look a lot like us, wear the same clothes, etc.. Is there a written list of criteria as you might find when applying to be a member of the writing staff for the school newspaper? I suspect not. One reason to go away to college (and not commute from home) is to learn more about other people, to learn to live with and respect other people, not just the people you voted to live with. In life, you cannot vote for your co-worker, for your business clients, for your patients, for your students, whatever. - isn't learning how to relate to people not like you a good thing???....Greeks are elitist and selective - they reinforce the idea that some people are better or more worthy than others and they keep those inside from discovering that others have value, too. I blame the colleges for not getting rid of Greeks or keeping them under better control. They rule the college in many places. Might as well commute from home IMNSHO!!! </p>
<p>Beware the Greeks. They come banging on the door as soon as you drop your freshmen kids off. They give a lonely, homesick, confused kid a place to call home and a group of friends to substitute for the ones he left behind. They also give him alcohol, alcohol, alcohol and girls, girls, girls..and a sense of belonging and status, a community........oh, yeah, they do charity work I hear. Heh-heh. Imagine if the campus had no Greeks and everyone belonged to the community of the college......the community of a dorm filled with a wide variety of people.....the academic community......wouldn't it be a better community, a more enriching experience? Aye!</p>
<p>"The trial of five Florida A&M University students charged with hazing is scheduled to begin today.</p>
<p>It will be one of the first hazing cases to go to trial in the state after the Legislature passed a bill in the spring of 2005 making hazing a third-degree felony....</p>
<p>They were charged after Marcus Jones, a 19-year-old sophomore, said he was beaten during a series of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity initiation sessions. The undergraduate Alpha Xi chapter of the fraternity has been suspended from campus until 2013.</p>
<p>I just did a google news search using only the word "hazing." It wasn't pretty.</p>
<p>That aside, once a kid is in college you don't always have final say in what they do. (Darn.) I can't imagine either of my kids wanting to get involved with frats, but I suppose stranger things have happened. </p>
<p>One surprising thing - their Jesuit (all-boys) HS is very down on frats and sends that message pretty clearly to the boys. They have the same philosphy about it that Carolyn voiced in Post #34.</p>
<p>I understand how you feel, even if I was a sorority girl. </p>
<p>However, I don't think that most sororities are that superficial when choosing pledges. We didn't use "beauty" as a criteria at all - and my house was considered to be the best on campus. If a girl was warm and friendly, she was asked back. I think some think that rushing is some kind of beauty contest - with all the best looking babes getting "rushed" and the rest get left behind. We had all shapes and sizes in our house. We had beauties (a couple are on TV now) and we had "plain janes". </p>
<p>The frats were the same way. Not all were hunks; many were "average", and some were rather unattractive. I think that TV and movies (Legally Blond, Revenge of the Nerds) give the impression that Greeks are all a bunch of hard bodied blonds, with blue eyes and dazzling teeth.</p>
<p>However, I think that the frats do encourage heavy and frequent binge drinking. There is tremendous peer pressure to drink excessively at their parties and after their meetings. That's why I don't want my kids to join.</p>
<p>Yes the Jesuits are down on frats/sor. Many Jesuit Univs don't allow them. A few do (John Carroll, for instance).</p>
<p>My S will likely be going to Fordham next year. (He goes to a Catholic high school, now - but it's not Jesuit.) Some Jesuit Univ have frats/sor, but there are not officially recognized on the campus.</p>
<p>I went to a Greek heavy school for undergrad, and rushed and pledged a sorority (one of the "good ones" LOL!), which I promptly depledged later that year. I couldn't stand the emphasis on looks, money, drinking, "passing the candle" (i.e. getting engaged) etc., and especially didn't like this idea that all these strangers were supposed to be my new best friends.</p>
<p>I know there are people who love frats and sororities. While this will be my kids' own decision, I am hopeful that they don't choose schools where this system is the central part of the social life.</p>
<p>My daughter in law joined a sorority her soph. year after many dorm friends had moved off campus. She thought that it would give her a way to meet more people and make friends. She did find a few friends, but mainly found it terribly time consuming and very expensive. She had to pay all her expensives that were sorority related and said they were constantly having to buy special dresses, cocktail dresses, even formals. For her, the expense was not in the stated dues, etc---it was all the social activities one had to chip in on, the clothing, the travel expenses,etc. She dropped after one year.</p>
<p>MKM: "found it terribly time consuming and very expensive. She had to pay all her expensives that were sorority related and said they were constantly having to buy special dresses, cocktail dresses, even formals. For her, the expense was not in the stated dues, etc---it was all the social activities one had to chip in on, the clothing, the travel expenses,etc."</p>
<p>I do agree with many of your statements. I also found sorority life very expensive (At the time, I envied those whose parents paid for all). I joined in my freshman year because my huge state uni was largely a "commuter" campus and Greek life added something to the college experience that can be lacking when a college is a commuter campus. I enjoyed all the activities, but when I transferred to a UC in my junior year, I was kind of glad that my sorority didn't have a chapter there, so I could go "alum" and concentrate on my major and save some money!</p>
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<p>I do agree with this statement. It's a two way street. The frat/sor choose you because they like you and you choose them because you like them. No one would say that each member is each others' best friend. Like all communities (church, school, work, etc), there will be a few people that you will feel closest to, some that you feel ok with, and some that my rub you the wrong way. I kept in close touch with my "Big Sister" for over 25 years until her tragic death last year (Her family's Suburban flipped and she was thrown out.)</p>
<p>Each house will often have a certain "feel" - more studious, more partying, more sports oriented, more preppy, etc. People fit in according to their interests. It's not a fake fit. Sometimes people will pledge and quickly learn that either the house or Greek life is not for them, so they quit - and that's great. ( I think many quit simply because they can't afford it and their parents won't subsidize. )</p>
<p>Carolyn & Rileydog nailed it. It's the eclusivity that so many of us find odious. Greeks are just high school cliques with real estate. College kids should be exploring and reaching out beyond their comfort zone. Greek life is the antithesis of this.</p>
<p>I don't think Carolyn implied anything about Greeks "buying friends." What they buy is a way to keep undesirables out, and too many grasping, insecure freshmen are lured into the artificial instant friendships to realize how limiting the Greek life can make their college experience. An insecure frosh will seek the Greek because he doesn't want to be one of the undesirables. A confident frosh will see the Greek system as a silly pecking order & resist. It's tought to resist when you're a lonely freshman away from home. Think of all the connections & exposure to different perspectives a Greek kid will miss because he spent so much time surrounded by kids who are just like him.</p>
<p>What about the exclusivity of greek life is odious? Often, greek organizations hold themselves to a higher standard than the rest of the collegiate community, and I see nothing wrong with wanting to associate with the best students on campus. Fraternities are exceptional for building professional life skills, and put emphasis on acting and dressing like an adult. I don't see how greek life limits the college experience, as many greeks are better traveled, better educated, and better socially involved than the average student. Greek life allows one to network and is great preparation for life in professional society.</p>
<p>I think you're missing the point that's been reiterated that Greek chapters aren't full of cookie-cutter members. I belonged to a chapter that had about 50 members. Even in our little group we had members of the tennis, track and field hockey teams. We were involved in student government, newspaper and other campus activities. We had members from all of the colleges that comprised our university. There were sisters from different geographic locations of the country and from different socioconomic and ethnic backgrounds. In short, each GLO on my campus was a microcosm of the university. This still holds true today.</p>
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My son's college encouraged parents as well as students to take the alcohol.edu course, so I did. The course said students who were Greek drank more than those who were not Greek. That doesn't mean non-Greek students don't drink, but parents should be be more concerned about drinking if their children pledge a fraternity or sorority.
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As someone who has also taken Alcohol.edu (my sorority required me to, not my school), you might also want to also mention that athletes were noted as some of the heaviest drinkers. It's been over a year since I've taken the course, but that stuck out to me a lot.</p>
<p>Now, I don't mean to crash the Parents forum, but I'm a student and sorority member and I just hate to hear that the bad press that Greek life recieves is still taken as gospel for what goes on in every chapter. I'm extremely active in my sorority and on campus, have a pretty good GPA (Dean's list more often than not), and being in my sorority has given me amazing experiences. I've taken on leadership roles in my chapter and gotten involved in some great programs at school that I may have been too intimidated to join had some of my sisters not been in them. I pay all my dues and fees myself, and while it's not cheap, it's completely worth it. I would recommend looking into fraternities/sororities for any incoming freshmen. It's not for everyone but for those it is, it can offer a great college experience. </p>
<p>And to address a little something about hazing - it isn't only found in Greek life. Bands, sports teams, other clubs - all have been found to haze. In fact, it's easier for them to haze because NPC/IFC/NIC sororities/fraternities generally have tighter reigns on their organizations because they have inter/national governing bodies. I'm not saying that hazing is non-existant, but it doesn't only happen in fraternities/sororities.</p>