Nervous wreck over fraternity rush!

Parents Forum
101

<p>mackenzie, that is pretty terrible, sororities like that are what make Greek organizations look bad, hopefully they are now very much the minority (though to be honest I do not know much about the sorority scene outside of my school)</p>

<p>at my school, sorority pledges get treated like queens - getting their rooms decorated, getting lots of candy and chocolate from the sisters - its really ridiculous how they get pampered. and the sisters cannot do anything to them, the hazing regulations are as strict as can be</p>

<p>So I caution those reading mackenzie's post that greek organizations are very different from school to school, none of that could ever happen here. It saddens me to hear that things like that still go on other places, maybe it is because sororities are fairly new here that it never does but the thought of going through any of that is scary - I know I would have depledged immediately.</p>

102

<p>The reason these incidences are so horrifying is that they are relatively rare. Thus we are still shocked by it. When these incidences become so common that they aren't newsworthy, then we have a problem.</p>

<p>MacKenzie, I hope you did report it to Panhel, the University President, Greek Advisor, NPC and the HQ of the sorority in question.</p>

<p>Not to make light of this but my alma mater has a fence that is painted with campus messages year round by many student organizations..... Groups or individuals may have to guard The Fence to make sure a new message isn't painted in the wee hours.</p>

103

<p>mackenzie, what you experienced does not seem to be the rarity if what I hear from students is accurate. While the frats seem to be more physical in their hazing than sororities, much demeaning behavior goes on in both. One girl I know who is a freshman is rushing now. They (pledge group) were blindfolded, taken to a lake, forced to strip (not knowing where they were) and find their way to a pick up point. Some of the girls were hysterical, crying, begging not to have to strip and were screamed at and berated for their "baby" behavior. </p>

<p>Another boy (different school--and neither of these my kids' schools) was forced to drink until he vomitted. He vomitted so severely he received espohageal tears--of course he didn't report it and neither did any of the girls above. Fear of reprisal is great.</p>

104

<p>The thing to remember is not all frats or sororities are the same. The one my S is in gives incentives for high grades (they like having the highest average GPA) and really pushes for leadership roles in student government and other campus organizations. I would guess that during rush they may look for students who do well academically and seem likeable with leadership potential, outgoing, popular, whatever you want to call it. I’m speculating, though. Is it wrong for them to not include students who are, say, very shy or fringe or struggling academically? There are other frats on his campus, however, that go in for the heavy party crowd. Is it wrong for them not to accept a teetotaler? Not that I’d want to be IN that frat.</p>

<p>About exclusive vs. inclusive- in college one of my best friends was in a sorority (I wasn’t). There were girls in her sorority who hung out with sisters exclusively and some, like her, who hung out with outsiders. I also had a good friend on a varsity team. Same thing for her- she hung out with outsiders, but some of her teammates hung mostly with each other. Some people are really into their church and only associate with other members- so what? I don’t really care whether other people are diversified in their friendships (I got enough to worry about).</p>

<p>Also about the forced stripping and drinking- I would HOPE that a student would have some idea as to the character of the organization they're joining before things get that far. When I was at college, I wasn't even a member of the Greek system, but we all seemed to know what "type" each frat was- drinkers, smokers, jocks, pretty boys, etc. Even if you didn't have a clue until they had the beer hose up to your face, can't you walk away?</p>

105

<p>Again, I do think it's more rare than common these days. I hate to hear of experiences like the one mentioned above because it in no way reflects my experience in a sorority of that of any of my high school friends who went to various schools for college. I was NEVER degraded or humiliated. My experience was much more like the person above who talked about signs and candy. When I was a member, we each were required to make a sign to put outside of the pledges' doors in their dorm weekly during the pledge period. Their entire hallway was filled with We Love You signs. We also gave them gifts and organized outings like skating parties and bowling nights. All of the chapters at my university did things like this. Alcohol was never involved at any of these functions. We had alcohol at date parties, but it was just for 21 and over and we had to have a way to clarify how that would be handled on the risk management form we submitted to international.</p>

<p>The incidents above need to be reported to the school's Panhellenic Council or to the national/international organization because they will intervene immediately. That's why advisor teams are in place for national Panhellenic sororities. I am currently in one of these positions with my Greek organization so I can tell you that this would not be tolerated in one of our chapters. If it was really serious, they would be in danger of having their charter pulled.</p>

106

<p>Honestly, I don't think I will report it, because everyone in the whole greek system would be able to point the finger. I don't want thousands of people hating me, you know?</p>

<p>I know that not every greek org is like this. I know there are schools that do not tolerate hazing. But when a school is really big, you kind of get lost in the shuffle. </p>

<p>In a way this has been cathartic, being able to get it off my chest. I didn't mean to shock you all. I was just being honest.</p>

<p>Thank you</p>

107

<p>To stop this from happening again, you need to be part of the solution. You can be anonymous in your reporting. Big schools have anti-hazing policies in place just like smaller ones. In fact, your state has passed stiffer anti-hazing laws just recently.</p>

108

<p>Mac,
I'm sorry your experience was what it was. My DD pledged a sorority and while she is tight-lipped about the details, I do not believe her experience was traumatic in any way. </p>

<p>Please see the associated thread: "What's most frightening is that the victim didn't want to tell!" and think about what might happen to the next or future pledge class...</p>

<p>Someone involved owes you an apology at the least. Probably counseling and possibly more. You owe the young women who will follow some level of protection from similar or worse experiences. </p>

<p>(I WAS shocked by the story and will forward it to my daughter. I definitely would expect her to step up and I hope you do, too.)</p>

109

<p>Isn't it swell that you have mean girls in college, and some have organized groups in order to continue on with the bullying behavior, you have to call it what it is, its girl bullies with a nice fancy name</p>

<p>Of course it is not all or even most houses that act this way, but I can guarantee you that other sorities now what is going on and do nothing to report their fellow greeks. Colleges are not that big where something that agregious happens without other groups hearing. So I hold the other sororities with some responsibility if they even HEAR some gossip about what one house is doing.</p>

<p>If you have half naked girls out int he woods, girls in cars screaming and terrified, etc, what no one notices...please, it is just ignored</p>

110

<p>mac, you need not endanger your social or career life. You are right to asume that the sorority will be banned from campus if your story is believed. The social fall out would be huge. You can report the matter after graduation--assuming you do not attend a state school and do not plan to live in the state.</p>

<p>If you do attend a state school and you do plan to live in that state, you might think about an anonymous complaint. Or, you might anonymously tip off the school or city newspaper in the hopes that your complaint would spark an investigation.</p>

<p>Not everyone has the strength to be Mahatma Ghandi.</p>

111

<p>If someone went into a room and tore stuff off walls, I would think that would be breaking and entering</p>

<p>The other stuff, what some people feel they need to do to belong, and this is not at you mac, because you got out, well, some people wiill humiliate themselves for "friendship"</p>

<p>what kind of person puts some one through dangerous situations, humiliations, breaking in, fake kidnapping for fun, and what kind of creepy bonding is that supposed to create</p>

<p>the IDEA of sororities I don't have a problem with, its the implementation, the extremes, the ickness shown by enough in the system that turns me off</p>

<p>there are some schools that have sororities that get together for charity work, dinners, study groups, sociallizing etc.m but its not this superficialness </p>

<p>Sure you can make great long time friends with people you are thrown together with, it is how people are, and to think that somehow after two or three meetings, etc that you can determine a lifelong friend to join your group from a few conversations, that is not realisitic</p>

<p>sure a common thing is wanting to be part of a sorority, but do you really know a person who is acting a certain way, dressing a certain way, and presenting themselves in a certain way to fit in...I don't really think so, even if you want to believe that</p>

112

<p>why don't you just say something like:</p>

<p>"I saw these half naked girls left in the country and asked if I could help, and they told me they were pledging for Mean Girl Sorority, and couldn't talk to me...so I thought I would report it as I felt the girls were not safe being undressed like that"</p>

<p>One note like that, as it is mostly true, can raise some eyebrows without the finger going at you, Mac...</p>

<p>And what do you want to bet that people DID see the girls and did nothing...or wondered what to do </p>

<p>just icky icky icky</p>

<p>isn't it just great that an adult has to live in fear of repurcussions of these girls and others for stepping up and doing the right thing?</p>

<p>would other sororities really get mad? do these girls have that much power in this school? </p>

<p>as I say this I am flashing back to HS....nice that in a school, this is tolerated, as people MUST know, not even the Army can keep secrets that well, for it to go on and on tells me that whatever school Mac is talking about is not a school I would ever want my D to attend, and I am very serious</p>

113

<p>Personally, I think we have a troll in our midst. I hope I am wrong. If not, step up to the plate and report it. You are doing your fellow college students a disservice if you don't blow the whistle on this....Like other violent crimes, if there is hazing, the victim can opt to remain anonymous. Your life can continue at your college in a normal fashion.</p>

<p>No GLO wants to be associated with hazing. They will NOT spring to the defense of an organization that is committing this crime (and in the eyes of MI law, it is a crime).</p>

114

<ol>
<li><p>If the school is so big, hopefully it won't be too difficult to avoid the people who will be angry at you, unless of course the Greek scene dominates the school</p></li>
<li><p>I think just about every school at this point has ways to report hazing anonymously</p></li>
</ol>

115

<p><a href="http://www.stophazing.org/mythsandfacts.htmlMyth%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stophazing.org/mythsandfacts.htmlMyth&lt;/a> #1: Hazing is a problem for fraternities and sororities primarily.</p>

<p>Fact: Hazing is a societal problem. Hazing incidents have been frequently documented in the military, athletic teams, marching bands, religious cults, professional schools and other types of clubs and/or, organizations. Reports of hazing activities in high schools are on the rise.</p>

<p>Myth #2: Hazing is no more than foolish pranks that sometimes go awry.</p>

<p>Fact: Hazing is an act of power and control over others --- it is victimization. Hazing is pre-meditated and NOT accidental. Hazing is abusive, degrading and often life-threatening.</p>

<p>Myth #3: As long as there's no malicious intent, a little hazing should be O.K.</p>

<p>Fact: Even if there's no malicious "intent" safety may still be a factor in traditional hazing activities that are considered to be "all in good fun." For example, serious accidents have occurred during scavenger hunts and kidnapping trips. Besides, what purpose do such activities serve in promoting the growth and development of group team members?</p>

<p>Myth #4: Hazing is an effective way to teach respect and develop discipline.</p>

<p>Fact: First of all, respect must be EARNED--not taught. Victims of hazing rarely report* having respect for those who have hazed them. Just like other forms of victimization, hazing breeds mistrust, apathy and alienation.</p>

<p>Myth #5: If someone agrees to participate in an activity, it can't be considered hazing.</p>

<p>Fact: In states that have laws against hazing consent of the victim can't be used as a defense in a civil suit. This is because even if someone agrees to participate in a potentially hazardous action it may not be true consent when considering the peer pressure and desire to belong to the group.</p>

<p>Myth #6: It's difficult to determine whether or not a certain activity is hazing--it's such a gray area sometimes.</p>

<p>Fact: It's not difficult to decide if an activity is hazing if you use common sense and ask yourself the following questions:</p>

<p>Make the following inquiries of each activity to determine whether or not it is hazing.
1) Is alcohol involved?
2) Will active/current members of the group refuse to participate with the new
members and do exactly what they're being asked to do?
3) Does the activity risk emotional or physical abuse?
4) Is there risk of injury or a question of safety?
5) Do you have any reservation describing the activity to your parents, to a professor or University official?
6) Would you object to the activity being photographed for the school newspaper or filmed by the local TV news crew?</p>

<p>If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," the activity is probably hazing.</p>

<p>Adapted from Death By Hazing Sigma Alpha Epsilon. 1988.</p>

<p>Will Keim has a similar approach to making decisions about hazing:</p>

<p>"1. If you have to ask if it's hazing, it is. 2. If in doubt, call your advisor/coach/national office. If you won't pick up the phone, you have your answer. Don't B.S. yourself.' 3. If you haze, you have low self-esteem. 4. If you allow hazing to occur, you are a 'hazing enabler.' 5. Failure to stop hazing will result in death..."</p>

<p>Will Keim, Ph.D., "The Power of Caring"</p>

116

<p>I don't understand how anyone can be confused about the "exclusivity" issue carolyn has raised.</p>

<p>Sorority says: "Would you like to join us? Great. Come to our Open House/rush party/whatever they call it. See how fun we are. See what wonderful bonding experiences we have. See the wonderful community service activities we perform."</p>

<p>One week later (or whenever) Sorority says: "You came to our party and you'd still like to join us? Sorry. We don't want you."</p>

<p>Now, it is true that someone might not "make" the athletic team. And be seriously disappointed. But that is a rejection based on lack of certain skills, or skills at the higher level of some other applicants.</p>

<p>The sorority and fraternities are just simply saying "We don't want you."</p>

<p>It can be great for the ones who belong. I don't doubt it. But what about the ones they spurn?</p>

117

<p>
[quote]
...of course he didn't report it and neither did any of the girls above. Fear of reprisal is great.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Which is why the frats and sororities and college administrators can get away with the bold faced lie that that sort of stuff doesn't happen in "our greek organizations; we only have good ones..."</p>

<p>The whole thing is one big orchestrated "plausible deniability" campaign.</p>

118

<p>
[quote]
Personally, I think we have a troll in our midst.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ignoring the facts doesn't change the facts.</p>

119

<p>I wish none of this was true. I wish I never had pledged. You can choose not to believe me, but there are people here who actually knew details that I did not tell. There are also others who have posted here that have similar "tales".</p>

<p>Blind eyes are what allows these things "happen" and why I wouldn't report it. Imagine having thousands of people hate you for retracting their oath.</p>

<p>Take what you want from my experience, but please do not diminish it.</p>

120

<p>"No GLO wants to be associated with hazing. They will NOT spring to the defense of an organization that is committing this crime (and in the eyes of MI law, it is a crime)."</p>

<p>Motherdear, if you think that any GLO would not defend or deny such allegations, then you are sadly misinformed. These societies have secrets that transcend generations and some, more than 100 years.</p>