<p>Yeah, and I've seen drunk members from nearly every chapter on my campus blab portions of their secrets on a pretty consistent basis over the years...nothing major but it happens. Most Greeks really don't care about other chapter's secret info b/c it doesn't mean anything to them - there is no connotation to make it important.</p>
<p>Hell my chapter can't keep the same doorcode to our house for more than 3 weeks because one person will blab it to his girlfriend so he doesn't have to leave his xBox game and soon enough her entire sorority knows it. Even with repeated urgings not to tell anyone, it always happens.</p>
<p>Yes, secrets do exist and considering the number of people in these organizations they are kept from outsider's ears fairly well. But no system is foolproof, and things get loose.</p>
<p>I recognize your fear of reprisal, and know from the few minor hazing incidents on campus (a couple houses during my time were punished for singling out only one or two pledges) that it can be a tough thing to weather. Whistleblowers need protection. And especially if your chapter is a local (which is the feeling I get from reading your account) and not bound by the rules inter/national organizations have agreed to, there can be an even greater risk for reprisal aimed at you. But it's important that you report these things. You can't be the only one who has depledged, and surely there are ways to anonymously report this to your University's Office of Greek Affairs. Email your Director and request anonymity and you'll be protected.</p>
<p>the reason you have rush events is to get to know potential new members - if you like them and they like you, you give them a bid and they join - if you dont like them you dont give them a bid - if they dont like you they wont join</p>
<p>There is no sitting people down and saying "we dont want you" It's the opposite, if people are to be given bids they are taken aside and the bid-ceremony is done, whatever that is. Kids who don't get bids are still entertained and talked to during the rush party, they just arent taken aside and given a bid at any point. It's all done very tactfully. I got a bid from only two of the three fraternities I rushed but I still enjoyed that night with the brothers, I talked to a lot of them through dinner and didn't even notice that other people were being pulled aside and given bids. I left with a very positive experience and not feeling rejected (I didn't get a bid there because the brothers didn't know me well enough, not for any dumb superficial reason btw)</p>
<p>Really, Dima, I don't see the point in describing how tactful the procedure is. You got a bid from "only" two of three frats. No wonder you found the experience comfortable. What about those who don't get a bid? Or don't get a bid from the frat/sorority they most like?</p>
<p>"If you don't like them" you don't give them a bid. QED.</p>
<p>I don't know about the big process in fraternities, but in sororities, it is anything but tactful, and it very often ends up making girls feel rejected.</p>
<p>It is a matter of mutual selection. The PNMs are cutting the greek organizations as GLOs are cutting the PNMs. Dima said he rushed at 3 fraternities. That meant he eliminated 10-12 fraternities at his college. They all have something to offer in ways of brotherhood, philanthropy etc but they weren't the right "fit" for him and he chose to concentrate his time on rushing at 3. There is nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>How is this different from say choosing a roommate though? You get to know people during freshman year of college and at some point when you need to decide who you are living with next year, you choose some people and assuming they agree live together next year. It's the same thing with fraternities and sororities - why should I agree to have someone living with me, eating with me, organizing events and doing charity work with me who I really don't get along with? You see plenty of roommate/suitemate/housemate horror stories on these forums - none of those happen in fraternities because in a fraternity you are choosing who you live with. I don't see anything wrong with that. </p>
<p>At my school we have 16 fraternities. To not get a bid from any is unheard of. There are a couple every year (and it changes year to year) who have bad years and will literally take anyone willing to join. And there are a few which have great years and have far more men wanting to join than they have room for in the house (how can you not be exclusive when you can only take so many people?) and a lot of people don't make it to those. As for being rejected from your first choice fraternity - it happened to me before formal recruitment even started. I am very happy it did though because I ended up at the best fraternity for me and I simply can't imagine being at the fraternity that was my first choice for two months before they rejected me (although I'm still friends with quite a few guys in that fraternity) - and besides, why would you want to live with people who don't want to live with you?</p>
<p>BTW about hazing - and please don't flame me for this - the reason hazing can happen is that people are so desperate for acceptance into the organization that they will do anything or allow anything to be done to them. Now I am not trying to take the blame off the perpetrators in any way (read my post on the hazing thread - I believe they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law) but if an entire class refuses to participate in a certain thing and threatens to all drop if made to do it, the GLO will have no choice but to listen or risk a year with no new members - which could quickly lead to the disappearance of the organization from campus (it is very difficult to recruit freshmen without any sophomores)</p>
<p>Perhaps the "problem" greek organizations could learn something from the pledge proceedure employed at HUBCs and African-American frats/soros at many campus. There, the pledge proceedure is directed more by the potential members. Typically, the Black Greeks organize informal receptions wherein the potential new member checks the organziation out by just getting to know members a bit (with Q&A). And non-African Americans do apply and become members of Black Greek organizations at some campuses.</p>
<p>This is not to say that Black Greek organizations are free of hazing incidents and misbehavior.</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom, the meetings/forums I witnessed were not even parties (why would males want to party just with other males?). They were sitdowns wherine established members, including alumni, would come and praise the "virtues" of their greek experience to potential members.</p>
<p>At my son's top 10 school, rush is second semester. So he attended functions and parties for a whole semester. He chose the frat where he made the most friends and had the most common interests. He is very happy this year and found a great roommate. So all a very positive experience.</p>
<p>Dima, for many students who have first semester rush, they are picking these supposed lifelong deep friends based on nothing more than first impressions. People size each other up: "I like your pocketbook", "Nice earrings" and such. Decisions are made in under two hours of total face time, and then these are supposed to be your new best friends?</p>
<p>Perhaps it is different with second semester or second year rush. I had experience with first year rush only, and I am thinking of the sorority I joined and how bad a fit it was...because it was based on nothing more than reputation and appearance.</p>
<p>Allmusic, I agree, I never understood (and still don't) the idea of first semester rush. I don't understand how you could choose the people you will be spending up to three years with in just your first week or so of college. I tend to advise my friends going to schools with first semester rush to put off rushing until winter term if possible or until sophomore year otherwise.</p>
<p>And citygirlsmom, while I can't give you a specific time spent with each potential new member, I can tell you that the goal of rush events is to get to know PNMs as much as possible. Usually there are a few smaller rush events during the week and then a party during the weekend. The party is more of a social event, not a rush event, but there are smaller events like grill-outs and Monday Night Football which are specifically meant as get-to-know-the-freshmen events.</p>
<p>My son's school has 2nd semester rush. Originally he thought he might be interested in a frat and was being wooed by a couple. However, due to his somewhat rough fresh. year (nothing to do with frats), he decided not to rush and wait and see his soph. year. He was somewhat hurt and surprised when those boys who were being so friendly, wanting him to rush, dropped him like a hot potato when he opted not to. He even heard from some who did rush that there was much negative talk about him because he didn't come out. That pretty much did it for him. </p>
<p>Plus after hearing about some of the hazing things (more degrading than dangerous) he said he would probably end up with an assault charge if he pledged, because he would never allow people to treat him like that.</p>
<p>That differs from organization to organization. It usually only takes a couple of members saying no but it depends on how big the organization is.</p>
<p>Along the same lines of Greek life, my town has a "service league". This is comprised of women from the community, they have fund raisers and contribute to local charities and volunteer man hours with various charities. Okay, this sounded like a worthwhile organization and when I was asked to join it upon moving into the area, I thought I would. Upon further investigation I found out that new members are put up for a vote and can be black balled. That ended my interest! I couldn't believe that an organization for charity would turn down anyone willing to work and contribute because of ....? what?</p>
<p>And look, mkm, (<em>note my tongue firmly planted in cheek</em>) how well it worked. <em>You</em> decided you didn't want them. It's all about "fit." Everybody's happy. Nothing exclusive or hurtful about it.</p>