<p>I think that it is very hard to be chopper at this moment. She is torn and she says so. She knows the advice of blossom, timcob et al that she shouldn't intervene, because S has to work this out himself, is on the mark. Yet she just feels that there must be some way, some thing that she can do to move S forward in the right direction.</p>
<p>I think timcob sums it up. In talking to the school, chopper, you are really doing it for yourself and your own sanity. I would do it too. Were I you, I would be on that phone tomorrow to the Dean of Students. The side benefit <em>might</em> be that any move they make toward your son will have a more immediate impact than you have been able to. Not that you are not capable, but just because you are The Mom and The Mom is what he's resisting right now, along with performing up to snuff. So I say, go for it. Contact the school. And I will cross all my fingers that you will get that side benefit.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I think the most important thing you can do is decide where your limits are and how you can communicate them effectively to your son. Not what HE should do. But what The Rules are. What YOU will do, just so he understands. I happen to believe it best that you not "rescue" him financially. I think he needs to feel the consequences of his choices here. And, if he can predict them in advance, the best possible outcome is that he will make a course correction now to avoid the worst possible consequences. If he guesses that there will be minimal consequences (ie "someone" will pay if he loses the scholarship or he will "take out a loan" - which he clearly doesn't fully understand), he'll just keep on keeping on. Blossom and timcob have given good rubrics for a parent's financial limits. Deciding on yours and deciding how best to get them across to your son are, I think, the strongest actions you can take. AND, are treating him like an adult. Tell him up front that you realize you need to "butt out" and will. But that you wouldn't want him to be surprised if your idea of how his education/living expenses would be handled out of school or without scholarship is different from his idea. "Learning the amount of money that is at stake," as timcob says, is what your son needs to know from you right now. Your unconditional love for him goes without saying, I am sure. It's the wake-up call info he needs, rather than the "guidance" at this moment.</p>
<p>Reading more posts, it seems that junebug's S acquired bad habits in high school by not being challenged enough so that he could do very well without doing much studying, and being able to make up for being tardy. He learned wrong lessons from that. It is not, unfortunately, that unusual a situation. But the combination of a challenging major and the possibility of losing a generous scholarship is daunting.
Can he right that ship? I believe he can. But he needs to go to his profs, and promise to do better. He cannot make up for work he failed to turn in; it would not be fair to the students who did do the work and turned it in on time. But at least he can apologize and promise to work hard from here on out. It's not too late.
Additionally, he does not seem to have absorbed the real consequences of losing his scholarship. He needs to learn a lesson in finance and the burdens of having to repay loans. He might start with adding up the cost of his clothes and shoes and food. Even a modest wardrobe will set him back. He'll have to say good bye to even the most modest meals out and to the occasional movies. He may think that his needs are few, and that therefore he need to worry about money. Perhaps he does not realize that even a modest standard of living may be beyond his means. He will need to start working right away in order to repay his loans, thus making it harder to do well in his studies (also no time for girlfriend).
Junebug, my heart goes out to you. I hope that some tough talking--not threatening, just laying out the real life consequences of the current trend--will persuade your son to change course.</p>
<p>Thanks Blossom,
You're right. I need to get a grip.
I do not think it is possible for him to drop any classes at this point. . . the last date has already passed, plus he would drop below the level of a full time student and would automatically lose the scholarship. At least he has a chance to keep it if he were to miraculously pull through. </p>
<p>Timcob,
When your daughter got a loan, did she do it on her own or did you help her figure out how to do it? Did you have to cosign? We've already told our son we will not pay for classes that he does not maintain a "C" or higher. I know that is a high standard, but he IS capable. A lot of what you said about not stepping in makes sense, yet I also have to think that the school WANTS to help the kids who are in trouble. Why not let them?</p>
<p>Hazmat,
I like the idea of writing things down and outlining my thoughts. . .but Timcob is making me rethink whether I should call. I don't know. I'm torn.</p>
<p>Northeast Mom,
Thanks for your support.</p>
<p>Guilt Guru (interesting name by the way)
We met the girlfriend over parents weekend (parents too). They all seem very nice. I was impressed by her. I think she definitely takes up his time, but she's apparently very dedicated academically.</p>
<p>jmmom and marite,
Thanks you both offer good advice. One of the reasons I am so stressed about this whole situation is that our son came home this past weekend and although part of the weekend was fun and pleasant, we spent a good deal of time lecturing him on how serious his situation is and how he needs to turn things around and how much money it is costing us etc. I feel horrible that I didn't spend more time telling him how much I miss him and love him. </p>
<p>Yes, I did tell him those things but I'm sure he came away remembering all the arguments and lectures instead.</p>
<p>Quilt guru with a Q not a G...I guess I should have thought of that when I was coming up with a screen name! Not that I'm not an expert at the other, too!</p>
<p>Would it help to write an email outlining the points that various posters have made? Just as a summary, in a calm, non-lecturing tone. Instead of saying how much this is costing you, say that you are not willing to foot his bill if he fails, and lay out the financial consequences starting immediately after he gets a loan--not at all a sure thing. Just calmly walk him through the scenario. It may be easier to write than to say in person. You can refine your message until you feel comfortable with its tone.
Your S is willing to confide in you; he should be willing to read the email and quietly absorb the message if it is not presented as a harangue. You can close by saying how much you love him, and that you have faith in him that he can turn things around, especially since he loves engineering.</p>
<p>Chopper: I'm not suggesting that this is the case (there's no way I would know), but if it was determined that your son was suffering from depression or some other health issue, the school probably has some kind of medical leave that would help keep his options open/scholarship intact. I say this just so you realize that up until the last day of the term, there probably are options that depend on your finding out what's going on with your s. You're half way there, I think, since he's communicating with you. He just needs some professional help to determine if it's a case of immaturity (which time and experience may cure) or something requiring another kind of intervention.</p>
<p>I would expect that a young person anticipating doom on the horizon is experiencing depression/anxiety. I also would expect a scholarship to remain intact if a student needed to withdraw for medical circumstance. This is not something that your son would have willed on himself or perhaps would even recognize........he may not be able to describe to you that there is even a problem. His inability to organize, focus and motivate himself to go to class and finish projects is a clue. There is much stigma attached to depression and I hope you don't rule out the possibility or don't try to make the diagnosis yourself. Inquire of the school what about a medical diagnosis.......many times these diagnosis come about in the age group of first leaving home.....18-23, you would not be the first family to have this come up unexpectedly. Good Luck</p>
<p>At the start of the year I submitted a FAFSA to the school even though I knew I wouldnt qualify for any aid. When I did this my D automatically qualified for an Unsubsidized Stafford loan of 2650. When I withheld the money I simply stated you are X short now and you might want to make it up by using that loan plus some of your savings from your summer job. She completed the loan through the college and the money is paid in 3 installments this summer. Everyone can get an unsubsidized stafford loan regardless of income. There is no cosigning by the parent - it is guaranteed by the US Government. Loans that need to be co-signed are parent loans and not really student loans since the studenthas the option of not repaying them. I made it clear at the beginning that I was not co-signing anything.</p>
<p>You are correct on the unsubsidized loans however the amounts available are low if this family is at a private school, losing a scholarship....less than $4000. isn't going to cover much of the bill. The reality for students who haven't had finance exposure/training prior to college is harsh. They hear loans they think they can arrange to pay and bingo bango......not gonna work out.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I used to think his problem was depression in high school but he denied that there was anything troubling him.
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</p>
<p>I was wondering myself about that. There doesn't have to be anything in particular troubling someone for them to be depressed. An inablity to focus, loss of motivation, skipping classes, rejecting help - all of those could be signs of depression. The fact that it began to show up later in high school would also indicate that some change was occuring and this is the age that mood disorders begin to show up. The other problem is that it's difficult to get someone in this state of mind to get help. They really need someone to prod them into getting the help they need; it's hard for them to do it on their own.</p>
<p>That's why I think it's agood idea to contact the school and let them know of your concerns. We can only speculate what's going on with him, but if he needs to be evealuated for a psychological or medical problem he's going to need a lot of support to take that step.</p>
<p>Update. After wrestling with the decision I decided to go ahead and call the school. The administrative person I spoke to said she is referring my call to someone within the Engineering Dept. who would call me back. So now I wait.</p>
<p>I also contacted the Mental Health Counseling Center and they have a person who does time mgmt/study skills counseling. She has the ability to refer him to other professionals at the center if she senses issues like the ADD or depression. Now I just have to figure out how to get my son to call to make the appointment.</p>
<p>Ugh.....waiting. Are you feeling any better at this point? It sounds as if the college has been receptive so far.....I mean they are having someone contact you and that is not dismissive.</p>
<p>You don't really need to worry about "getting" you son to do anything. You have done the groundwork, sought out the appropriate resources and when and if the time is right you can share with your son the resources. You have no responsibility for "getting" him there. Rational talk, honest assessment, little by little your son will observe that you are caring and worried but no pressing or bullying him. Do what you as a parent need to do and let him come around.</p>
<p>Chopper, no advise or words of wisdom. I just wanted you to know that I am praying for you. Honestly, the situation you and your son are in is every parent's worry when they send off their 18 year old to college. I know it has been mine. I hope everything works out for him.</p>
<p>Dear Chopper, I, too have been praying for you. I have no words of wisdom, since you and I are in about the same situation. I can only say that this discussion forum was an extraordinary gift--giving me the perspective i needed to do what you did: be clear about what we expected. (just as you described, it was rough. but it's better now.)</p>
<p>I'm late to this thread but as is often the case, I think Marite nails it. Speaking from personal experience, I didn't have to work that hard or develop good habits in high school and I still did fairly well except in the equivalent of AP math/science classes where I did so-so (I was in the "dumb" half of the "very bright" group. Turns out that I ultimately didn't belong in the math/science side of things.) I then went off to engineering school and it was the equivalent of a a decent high school athlete suddenly being on a pro team. <em>Everyone</em> in my classes was smart. Most of them had better work habits. I struggled for three years before finally being invited to change majors...no hurry as long as I did it by 3pm. I was mortified at being on probation. But I turned my grades around and for the last few quarters after a so-so transition quarter got a 3.7 to 3.8 while completing a new major.</p>
<p>I know that sending our kids off to college can be stressful when everything seems ok, so I am very sure that you are really feeling stressed and I am sorry that you are worrying so much.</p>
<p>Has your son been assigned a first year dean as s/he is usually the contact person for the parent and the student .</p>
<p>Is your son on a downward slide in all of his classes or only one class? In some of your conversations I beleive that you have to take a step back and find something that is going well in his life, and focus on that for a moment. Let him be happy about the small victories and show him that there are some things that are going okay as we can sometimes create self-fulling prophesies if we continue with things like if "you don't get it together, they're going to kick you out, you'll lose your scholarhip, never go to grad school blah, blah, blah. Give him something good to focus on so that he can shift his thinking for a moment.</p>
<p>Remember your son is probably not having a day at the beach knowing that he is not doing well in his courses especially since he has always been used to getting good grades (he is probably feeling his own sense of shame/doubt because he did leave home with so much promise and the hopes of everything being so great once he got to college). </p>
<p>Take a moment and ask him in an unjudmental way what is going on. Let him get his vent out, let him talk about how frustrated he is with the situation. At some level he may think that his situation is unique to him. Let him know that these things happen more than he realizes, others have gone through what he is going through and have turned things around and he has it in him to turn things around also. </p>
<p>Ask him what would he like to see happen. Ask him what does he need. Let him know that no matter what you are going to be there for him. If he is feeling stressed or needs to just chat, you are only a phone call away. If he wants to bounce a paper off of you (even if you know nothing about the subject) you'll listen (becaue the ability to teach what you've learned to others reinforces your own learning) and you'll think of questions to ask if he wants you to.</p>
<p>I hope this helps and will be sending good wishes your way</p>
<p>Thanks everybody. I truly appreciate your support and prayers. </p>
<p>As far as his classes go. . . well, it started out as just one class in trouble. We got a "deficiency" notice from the school at midterm. Then over the past week, he has received failing grades on assignments in 3 other classes as well. I am just afraid of a snowball effect. </p>
<p>I haven't heard from the school so I expect it will be a LONG weekend. I am heading out of town for part of the weekend so that will hopefully get my mind on something else. </p>
<p>The Dad - Thanks for your personal story. I know this isn't the end of the world, but after the long arduous college application/scholarship/decision-making process, it sure is agonizing! I am sure in a number of years he will be doing just fine and this will be a bump in the road. Right now it seems like a roadblock.</p>
<p>Sybbie - yes, I should probably focus on some of the positives, like how much he really loves his school, his new friends, his new girlfriend, his dorm and the whole college experience. Other than the grades he is totally happy, which makes things especially hard if he can't be successful enough to stay.</p>
<p>You asked about his dean, etc. I just know his advisor's name. I did try to reach him but I always got a recording and I just wasn't comfortable leaving a message so that's when I went a different route and called the main administrative office.</p>