<p>^^^^huh?
No one said anything remotely negative about NMSF/NMF students. However, it’s the parents of those students that have “shock and awe” due to housing scholarship changes. If they can express their “shock and awe”, others try to remind them that being NMF is not the “be all end all.”</p>
<p>How is saying, “Oh - the scholarship for NMF just lost $36,000 in value. This is disappointing” equal to shock and awe? </p>
<p>My oldest son graduated HS in 2010, so I’ve only been watching this thread since the cycle leading into his graduation. Every year (until this one, obviously), when the scholarship page is updated and shows that the NMF scholarship is still intact, a bunch of parents have posted the equivalent of, “Yay! The scholarship package is still the same for my kid’s year!” This year the scholarship was decreased. So the parents who would normally have said, “Yay! The scholarship package is still the same for my kid’s year!” are saying, “Shoot! I was hoping the scholarship package would stay the same!” </p>
<p>Why does this get your back up?</p>
<p>Around where I live the PSAT is offered to sophomores. All of the school districts I can think of for miles in any direction offer the test during sophomore year. Our school district pays for all sophomores in the district to take the test and excuses them from classes to take the test.</p>
<p>During sophomore year, my son scored just above 200 on the test.</p>
<p>At that time, I hadn’t looked into schools that offered substantial awards based on NMF status, but what I did know is that the company I worked for offered scholarships through the program and to be eligible you had to take the test junior year. Late in my son’s sophomore year, I sent a quick message to the school asking if he could take the test again during junior year. I didn’t even get a response. Early in junior year I resent the message asking again what actions I had to take to ensure he could take the test. I got a response asking why I would want him to do so. I explained that the scholarships offered by my company were only available based on PSAT scores taken during the junior year. The counsellor then had to discuss the issue with the administration and the school board. After several weeks I was told that they would allow him to take the test, but I would have to pay for it on my own (the tone of the message gave the impression that they were discouraging it). I looked up the cost of the test which I don’t recall, but know was only around $20. I wrote back saying that it would be ridiculous not to pay for a $20 for the opportunity to earn $1000s in scholarship money. I had to contact them several more times to ensure that he did indeed get registered for the test and was excused from his classes during that time.</p>
<p>I was hoping my son could raise his score by at least 10 points, but instead his score dropped by that much. I don’t know if it’s because he felt pressured because of all the hoops I had to jumpt through to make it happen, if he felt awkward that he was the ONLY junior that was taking the test at his school that day, or if he was just having a bad day. I do know that no other juniors at his school took the test, not even the top ranking students who may have potentially scored higher. The school did nothing to communicate the value of taking the test as a junior and not only did not present that as an option, but attempted to establish hurdles when I began pursuing it. Most students and parents were never even aware of the value of taking the test during the junior year. </p>
<p>Being a NMF is a huge accomplishment. But it is not a level playing field. All students know to prepare for the ACTs and SATs and to take them seriously. They know the weight that the results carry, but in some schools in some areas there is no emphasis on the PSAT. Here all students take the PSAT, whether they are college bound or not, leading to many not taking the test seriously. Even those who are college bound are not told about the value of the test or why they should take it seriously and do little to prepare. Parents are not aware of the value of the test unless it is something they choose to investigate on their own.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine that my area is unique.</p>
<p>I knew without NMF status there were a number of exceptional opportunities that my son would not be eligible for, but to ensure that all opportunities were available to him, I had him begin applying to external scholarships. All in all, we applied for about 30 external scholarships from local organizations to national foundations. He managed to win 4 of those he applied for, for approximately $7500. Although not quite the value of housing, those options are still available for those that pursue them. Especially for students who were awarded NMF status, receiving some external scholarship money shouldn’t be too much of a challenge. Of course those scholarships are only available for freshman year, but for anyone receiving housing freshman year, if they received external awards that result in a refund, that money could be saved for later years. There are also scholarships available for students in specific majors that are available during later school years. </p>
<p>Without NMF status, my son’s bill will be well under $5000 for his freshman year. I know a lot of people in this country, some with high achieveing students, that would LOVE to be in the same situation, but just didn’t know how to navigate the path to get there. When there are others paying $20,000/year for in-state publics or $40,000-50,000 a year for OOS or private schools, I’m pretty happy about the bills I’ll be paying.</p>
<p>I don’t believe you can retest with the PSAT to get a higher score and qualify for the NMF. I believe it’s one and done.</p>
<p>First, congrats to your son!! </p>
<p>I have to agree with asaunmom on this.</p>
<p>Just for a little background on NMF from my personal perspective:</p>
<p>Some of us had no idea what attaining NMF status “could” mean to our students. In fact, the counselors at our HS told the kids that it was worth $10,000 if they chose to go to x local school, and that was about the extent of it. Students not interested in x local school could have cared less about ithe PSAT. Even when meeting with the GC and doing college planning while LOOKING AT the PSAT scores from 10th grade, the GC did not clue us into other options we should look at and what/why DS should strive for NMF. </p>
<p>No, we had not yet found CC, and by the time we did, much to late. If I had a second child, the attention to PSAT would be much different. By the time Irealized that the school GC’s were totally useless and we were on our own, we missed the opportunity. </p>
<p>Additionally, some schools (even whole school districts) do not offer the PSAT to students. Or they have to pay for it. And yes, every state has a different cutoff set for that state because “x” percentage of the students that took the test from each state get in. So there are variables in the students from state to state. But that is how it is set up, and it is a college board program. So anything that we (parents) may seem to be complaining about is related to how college board administers the program, not the benefits to those that get in. </p>
<p>Honestly, my son is a presidential scholar, and I think that the admission of NMF and other scholarship students is very beneficial to MY student. So I do not want to see any of these opportunities diminished- it may negatively impact MY son!! LOL</p>
<p>And JRCSmom- the 11th grade PSAT is the only one that can be used for NMF. A number of schools give them in 10th and 11th. In our district, the 10th grade ones are used to identify strengths and encourage high scoring kids to enroll in AP, or discourage lower scoring kids not to enroll in AP. Talk about a disservice to the kids!</p>
<p>Wow, jrcsmom - that’s an amazing story! I can’t believe your school wouldn’t even LET juniors take the PSAT! Around here the state pays for sophomores to take it, and juniors have to pay, but still - the school definitely encourages juniors to take it. In fact, a few years ago, they started calling sophomores who had done well on the PSAT (175 or above I think) in to a meeting (with parents), just to tell them the PSAT mattered. They found that by simply having the meeting, students and parents realized the PSAT might matter, and even if the kids didn’t try to study for it, just by telling the med-high scoring kids and their parents to take it seriously, they saw an immediate and substantial jump in number of NMSF’s. Interesting. </p>
<p>Kudos to you for finding out yourself and pushing your school into doing what they should have been doing anyway!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes - it’s one and done in the junior year. Kids that take is sophomore still take it junior when it matters.</p>
<p>bottom line is this: the package has changed and everyone will have to weigh for himself where UA ranks in their list of options, just like before. now UA will not have as much of a financial edge in your personal rankings as it previously did.</p>
<p>UA is not the place for everyone. students need to figure out where that place is, whether it is UA or not.</p>
<p>IMO there has always been a little bit of entitlement expressed by some NMFs here on this forum. complaints about why this thing or that thing is not included or allowed (example: stipend to use for off-campus housing). the offer is what it is. either accept it gratefully, or move on.</p>
<p>I wonder if most schools have announced changes to 2013-2014 incoming class scholarships. And if other schools are making changes to what they offer ALL students, not just the NMF students.</p>
<p>In our district we have the PLAN test and the PSAT. The former is the precursor to the ACT and the latter to the SAT. We were never given any indication that the PSAT was more important than the PLAN test - which was presented just as a pre-test so the kids would know what to expect. I’ve been disappointed in many ways with the counseling office at our “School of Excellence”.</p>
<p>I have been told on a couple of occasions (when I ask GC’s why they do not place more emphasis on educating students and families, about the importance of certain things early on in your HS ‘career’, and how they affect you later in HS…)…and can you believe that they generally shrug their shoulders and say something like, “Well, those who are in the know, know; the information is out there for parents and students alike, and it is their job to do research…” GCs are so overwhelmed with all of the low and average students (i.e., the majority), that they truly believe that the smart(er) ones are on their own and will land on their feet. We have 2 GCs for ~650 students. There is a pool of ~100 kids who this kind of forum would be appropriate for. While I don’t like doing other people’s jobs for them, I am quick to offer advice and help to any student or family who needs it. And, in life, there is some truth in what the GCs have said: those who are in the know, know; those who will land on their feet, will land on their feet.</p>
<p>School districts do vary by region, here in the Northeast there is really no emphasis on the PSAT. Heck, it is simply known as the “practice” SAT and since most students (from this area) will never apply to the schools that offer scholarships based on the PSAT, no one takes it seriously. Guidance counselors/parents and students put no emphasis on this test, as I said, it is just considered practice. We did not know the value of this test as it applies to UA until after the test was over. Again regional differences account for the emphasis on the SAT and not on the ACT. Very very few students even attempt to take the ACT here, and many Northeastern schools prefer the SAT, there is a (perceived) bias against the ACT. Recruiters and guidance counselors still set the gold standard on the SAT test. Also, SAT Subject tests have always been highly recommended and many schools around here require more than one test score. For instance Harvard requires two, this is just an example, even non-ivies can require these test scores.</p>
<p>For whatever reason, I never bothered to open this thread and was unaware of the scholarship changes until now.</p>
<p>I feel very fortunate that my son slipped in “under the wire.” He would have qualified for the Presidential even without NMF, but that extra three years of honors housing is a really big deal. I honestly cannot say whether he would have gone to Bama if he had not had it. Maybe, maybe not. But who cares. Life moves forward.</p>
<p>Didn’t realize we were so lucky regarding DS’s H.S. Ninth grade year, a new principal came to town who felt very strongly that the school had the ability to increase their ‘crop’ of NMF’s and took strong measures to do so. PSAT information was constantly distributed, Juniors were encouraged (nagged) to take the free test (the school was practically shut down during testing) and a program was instituted identifying top Sophomores who were invited to participate in a funded PSAT prep course, taught by the best AP English and AP Calculus teachers at the school. Did the classes and emphasis on attaining a high PSAT score make the difference in my son attaining NMF? I don’t know, but I am ever grateful that his school took such a proactive role regarding the PSAT, because I just didn’t have a clue what a difference it could make. I know it’s just one test, one time, one measuring stick, but it’s how they do it, and I am distressed at the experiences posted here that reflect some High Schools apathy about giving kids their best shot at that particular opportunity.</p>
<p>Dusty13…do all of these responses about the state to state and regional differences in how the PSAT and NMF is handled help you see where the comments from some parents are coming from? It is not animosity towards NMF students at all. Honest!</p>
<p>My D is an NMF due to M2CK and all of her information about the benefits of being a NMF.
Not one of the 4 high schools in my rural county gave the PSAT until I asked about it in spring of 2009. Her high school ordered 30 tests. They gave it to 25 handpicked juniors and 5 sophomores on an alternate test day. D scored highest in the school but not quite high enough. They gave the test in her junior year, but couldn’t have the alternate test date. The regular dates are over fall break. Again 30 tests ordered but only 16 kids remembered to go to school that Saturday morning. </p>
<p>D scored high enough for any state, but she was the only NMF. Now they won’t give the test anymore. If kids are interested, the school will assist them in signing up to take the PSAt at the nearest boarding school which is about 40 miles away. So, now I expect my D will be the first and last NMF from her high school. </p>
<p>Thanks again, M2CK. This has truly been a godsend that we would never have known about without you.</p>
<h1>145</h1>
<p>“Well, after 10 pages of scoop, I must admit, I will probably be one of the whiners.”</p>
<p>This is the only reason that I posted originally. I didn’t refer to anyone as whining. In post #145, the term whiners was used so I followed up on that. I will stand by what I said, it makes me cringe to read complaints about UA’s NMF scholarship changes.
PSAT was NEVER emphasized at our student’s college prep high school. Yes, this was a major failure on their part. It was just “another” test. Now, I understand why that’s the mentality in our state. It’s just not important because our state schools don’t offer much for NMF. Unfortunately, I learned this 3 years too late. I tell everyone with a high school student to focus on PSAT if they are interested in going OOS.
I’ve also mentioned this to the hs counselors. Response: blank stares and flippant attitude. </p>
<p>From my experience with reading every scholarship page created, our state schools are unimpressed with PSAT scores. Our cut-off is 212 which seems to be in the middle range. </p>
<p>from the IU scholarship page:
Scholarship Description$1,000 per year IU awards this scholarship to all National Merit Finalists who indicate IU as their first choice through the National Merit Scholarship Program (valued at $4,000 over four years). Amount $1,000</p>
<p>from Purdue scholarship page:
National Merit Scholarships are awarded to finalists who have been admitted to Purdue for the fall term, have indicated Purdue as their first-choice university, and have not received a corporation-sponsored merit scholarship. Recipients of this scholarship will receive $4,000 ($1,000 per year for four years). Students enter the Merit Program by taking the PSAT/NMSQT as an initial screen and should work with their high school counselors to follow the appropriate procedures. You also can contact the National Merit Scholarship Corporation at (847) 866-5100 for details.</p>
<p>I had hoped that this thread wouldn’t go down this path again. I think Pinoit Noir is correct – the reaction of the potential NMF semifinalist parents to the decrease in the scholarship is merely the other side of the coin that we are seeing from parents of potential Presidential scholars – who are posting happily that the Presidential has remained the same. Had the Presidential been decreased to a 2/3 tuition scholarship (which is the monetary equivalent of the decrease in the NMF housing), I would not be at all surprised if parents of 2013er’s who had hoped for the Presidential were to come on and express their disappointment. (And I wouldn’t think that they were showing an “entitled attitude.”)</p>
<p>In all honesty as the parent of one NMF scholar currently at Alabama and one potential NMSF who is looking at colleges this year – from an already high cutoff state, whose score is several points higher than the highest NMF qualifying score ever required in any state, and who has near perfect SAT and ACT scores – it does feel like all the discussion of NMFs who barely make the lowest possible cutoff score and/or who accept the full scholarship with sub 2000 SAT scores – does reflect some level of animosity toward NMFs. Based on the way these kinds of threads read, you would think that the ONLY NMFs who accept Alabama’s generous NMF offer are the ones who just barely squeak through the door. I can assure you based on the NMFs that I know, there are more who blow away the SAT than those who bomb it. I will also admit that the sore spot that these sorts of threads touch in me is probably similar to the reaction of those whose kids are on other scholarships, who complain that NMF parents come on with the attitude that if you aren’t NMF you don’t have any other options. </p>
<p>Perhaps we can all once again agree to agree that if our kids are at Alabama or looking at Alabama, it is because the school had a good reason for wanting our kids at Alabama and the student has a good reason for finding Alabama an attractive school. Roll Tide.</p>
<p>Just wanted to clarify that it not so much apathy on my school district’s part as it is is the lack of information concerning the NMF scholarships across the board. There are tons of info on scholarships, but again it is mostly regional (across the Northeast corridor). There are only a few Northeastern schools that give any NMF money and that qualification can be couple with other criteria.
It is true that most students do not leave this region. My son was only the second person from our town to attend UA, that we know of, and that other person graduated before WWII. He went on to become a State Supreme Court Justice.</p>
<p>I am going to jump in here with a different perspective on trying for a merit scholarship. My NMF student was very interested in UVA so she wanted to try for the Jefferson scholarship. First, she had to write essays and get a recommendation to gain a nomination from her high school, then she was eligible to fill out on line extensive application with IIRC about 8 essay questions plus tons of supporting material and more recommendations. This was due by November 1st of her senior year. </p>
<p>Then in January, she was lucky enough to be invited to the regional interview which was held in an intimidating downtown law office. Luckily the regional interviews were held on a Saturday and only about an hour’s drive from our home. Her interview was over an hour in a large conference room with 5 former Jefferson scholars asking her probing questions. She was told she should expect a response in a couple of days. They must have many excellent candidates that year, because they didn’t get back to her for over a week and then she was rejected. Some students were invited back downtown for a second interview and then rejected. I believe two were then selected to continue the process by attending their scholarship selection weekend.</p>
<p>From this process, she learned much about herself and what may be required to win merit money. She did not win any merit money. The application to UVA where she was accepted as a Echols scholars is a whole separate process. She also received a Jefferson certificate.
She and I are still grateful she had her shot. We also realize that those who are giving out merit get to chose how they do it. I hope this post will help some gain a different perspective on what University of Alabama requests and rewards as it seems quite fair and generous from my viewpoint.</p>