Original: Advice for intelligent but cool S's long path to college

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello. I truly need your advice. </p>

<p>I have a S who is a freshman in high school. As my D is a senior, I now, rather late in the game, understand more about this getting kids into college thing. Luckily for my D, she did pretty everything herself. Her grades, ECS, etc. were all a result of her very strong personality. Unluckily for my S, I am now both somewhat unprepared to help him and also aware of the difficulty of the task at hand. </p>

<p>S has a clearly stated goal. He wants to go to Stanford. S shows signs of high intelligence - talked early, swam early, learned origami at age 5, high music aptitude though he refuses to take lessons except the sax newly learned for the school band, reads the New Yorker of his own volition:), tests so far on standardized tests v. well and gets straight As in high school. However, S is a deep believer in being cool. Cool people do not do academic contests. S is also a solitary being by nature, with two friends he has had since babyhood, albeit quite popular (see the cool thing).</p>

<p>I fear that if he is going to get into Stanford I will have to nudge him. The background on our family is that I have always been a deep believer in the unscheduled child thing, sent both S and D to an alternative old-hippie school, no tutoring, summers at large except the soccer he likes to play and the ballet she insisted on. But I worry now that his days of studying, playing JV soccer in season and Class 3 club the rest of the time, playing Magic cards online and downloading music, reading the New Yorker and doing acrostics, will not get him where he wants to go.</p>

<p>I can get him to do something, but I will have a limited window, as he will refuse to be pushed more than a little. What should it be? He's a Caucasian male - I see from other posts that this matters. No way will he do the leadership type stuff my daughter went for naturally. Do we start now on SAT tutoring to see if he can be an 800/800? Do I make him go to the Latin tournament his teacher wanted him to try? Do I make him sign up for the guys' singing group (he has a nice voice)? Contests? Programs? Or, heaven forbid, do I let him go on as he is, a sweet, funny, tactiturn, original teenager, and then let him find out in three years that he won't be going to Stanford after all?</p>

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<p>Don't make him do any particular activity, but make sure he gets started NOW on something he's going to enjoy. Sports are cool- would he like to play one? Theater? My school's definitely the exception rather than the rule, but most of the most popular kids here do debate or math team. If he swam early, how about swim team? It doesn't matter what he does, as long as he does something (and preferably does it well).</p>

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<p>What does your son like to do? What are his interests/strengths, outside of academics. Is he involved in any extra-curriculars like sports, music, volunteering, debate, high adventure, etc.
I would hold off on the SAT tutoring, especially if he is naturally smart. Did he take the PSATs as a freshman, and how did he do? If not, he will be taking them as a Soph., Oct.2005?, and that would be a good indicator of SAT scores.</p>

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<p>Your son needs to do what HE is interested in doing and what he has a passion for and likes.....not what you or he thinks might package him well to get into Stanford. You can offer him opportunities, but if he does them with reluctance it will not show the commitment and desire colleges hope to see in their students. Is he continuiing to play soccer in high school? Has he shown interest in any activities at all? Honestly, you can offer the chances to try things (and so can his teachers...perhaps there is a mentor there who can inspire your son to try something he might not other wise try). BUT you really can't force him to love some EC just so he'll have it on his resume to present to Stanford (or any other college for that matter). AND....just my humble opinion...but why the "heaven forbid" part? There are many other colleges out there beside Stanford. Your guy will certainly find a college if he wants to...he also has good grades and good test scores which DO carry weight in many places.</p>

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<p>You should talk to your son about how you feel. Suggest that he try some ECs at his school or search volunteermatch.com for some volunteer opportunities in your area. Who knows, he might grow to love his ECs!</p>

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<p>I am not one for 'prepackaging ' a student. But yet, a student with 4.0 gpa, and 1600 SAT scores, cannot expect to get into schools like Stanford, without showing a deep and abiding interest in something. A kid can take a hobby and turn it into something very meaningful, even a love for reading could be extended into tutoring for free/ helping ESL students. There are endless possibilities, you just need a starting point.</p>

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<p>Thank you for answering. This is truly a heartfelt question on my part. I say "heaven forbid" to letting him go his own way because that is what I would like to do. I would like that to be the world he lived in - but I don't think it is, any more. I am asking this question to find out if there is a non-toxic way to do what so many of you seem to have done - find activities which are in alignment with his being and yet showcase him. He does play soccer still, he loves it - he's good enough to keep playing HS but not at Stanford (they are killer!). So in addition, do any of you know of programs or activities that might be good for this kind of kid? From this kind of family? Any of you have personal histories with your kids that are similar? What did you do?</p>

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<p>At some point, perhaps in junior year, your son will take a look at Stanford and take a look at himself and decide if it is indeed the school for him. Chances are he'll decide, as my son has, that it makes no sense to try to tailor himself to a college, but instead try to find a college that is tailored to him. As a freshman, Stanford is just the name brand they know - CA resident no doubt? As kids develop their own strengths and discover who they are and want to be, this Stanford obsession will probably fade if it's not a good match, personality-wise.
My junior son went with his dad up north to look at schools - Stanford among them. He was not nearly as impressed with the students there as he was with the Berkeley students , even though as a freshman it seemed THE school to go to for very bright, science oriented kids. Now, no offense to Stanford kids - I know some wonderful ones. But what he realized is that personality and fit matter when picking a school, and that Stanford just didn't feel like him.
Trust that your boy will mature and find the path most suitable for him. Don't throw out all that great work you've done so far letting him follow his heart! Continue as you've always done, and he'll be successful. You know that - so don't let all this college hype get to you!</p>

<p>Edit: there's always grad school ;)</p>

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<p>I did NOT find activities for my two kiddos. They found them for themselves. Occasionally I might see something that tied into one of their interests...and I would mention it...but that was it. They had their likes AND dislikes. There were things I wish both had tried (DS was NOT a sports kid....and that EC did NOT appear on his resume after 10th grade). DD really should be on the school paper or yearbook staff...she's a terrific writer...but she does NOT want to do that. The only advice I can give is....look at what your son LIKES....see if there are things he can do that would go along with those likes.</p>

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<p>You say your son is a good soccer player and loves it. There you go! One EC down, one to go. Not good enough to play at Stanford, you say? Egads, woman! Of course not. If he were, he'd already be practically recruited!<br>
That should tell you something, imo. Stanford - now sit down- is probably not going to be the school for him.
If you can just get past that for a minute, or at least entertain the possibility that another school might truly be better for him in every way, the pressure will drop immediately. There are so many great schools where his soccer devotion could be fullfilled and appreciated, along with his intellectual gifts, talents and interests. Go there. Start looking at places where he actually might walk on if her still wants to by then. LACs might also be a possibility. You're only in a funk because you're limiting yourself (him) to this one school. Snap out of it ! :)</p>

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<p>He has HIS passions already, thought they aren't what admissions people apparently want to see. He likes online games, he reads the New Yorker, he does acrostics, he likes to download music, he has a few close friends. Sounds like a great kid to me, unfortunately, I don't do admissions for Stanford. I read some of the resumes of these kids here and most of them strike me as packaging just to get into college. I don't have any answers for you, I wish things were different. Maybe something he reads will spark an interest he could delve further into.</p>

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<p>It looks like some of the ECs will take care of themselves. As for the academics, it may be possible to use the ECs to build them up. For example, someone who reads the New Yorker of his own volition might enjoy joining Mock Trial (or debate team). The study skills and the knowledge acquired for these will spill over into academics. Taking part in drama will probably help with literature classes.
Does he like science? He can join the school science team or robotics team and learn a lot from it. One teacher I've been in touch with uses his swim coaching to teach math and physics to the students on his team. My S is good at Latin, though that is definitely not one of his passions. He was taken by his teacher to a Classics Day and found to his surprise that he really enjoyed it.<br>
In other words, academics need not be nose to the grindstone and boring and ECs need not distract from learning. By the way, since he likes origami, he should google Erik Demaine (MIT) and Robert Lang, a physicist turned full time origami artist. There is a lot of math involved, and lots of practical applications to origami.
If he has his heart set on Stanford, take him there some time.</p>

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<p>My son has played soccer since age 4 and soccer year round (indoor in winter) since age 7. Once in high school he played there too. Not near good enough for college play but many of his ec's evolved around soccer none the less. </p>

<p>My son took a class at a college and got his referree's license and was then able to be a (very young) referee for the travel division in our area. When not doing that, he also refereed the local city club kids. Then in summer, instead of volunteering at a humane society or food pantry, he volunteered as a camp counselor for little kids wanting to attend the local soccer camp. Overall, it showed his <em>passion</em> for something and maybe this is a route your son can take? Although my son didn't do it, I've also heard of kids creating soccer fundraising events and collecting used shin guards, balls, etc to send to areas where kids would appreciate them (like Puerto Rico or an inner city school in a poor area). Just thought I would share some ways you can branch out the soccer theme.</p>

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<p>Give him the book A is for Admission and let him read what's necessary from the horse's mouth. Tell him it will be up to him to decide how important Stanford or a like school is, and whether he wants to do what it takes. Let him know you'll be supportive and help with planning if he so desires.</p>

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<p>I don't think there's anything wrong with a parent sitting a child down and telling them that this is what you'll need to be working on if Stanford is your goal, with all kinds of caveats - that it's always a crapshoot, things can change in four years, and that it's really your best guess as to how someone gets into Stanford (since no one can really predict). Then your son can choose to work at things that interest him and might help build a strong application. Have you thought of going to a Stanford admissions session? Sometimes hearing it from the school is more effective - they'll likely respond to questions about the kind of student they're looking for, and that can get your son to start to think about himself as that kind of student (or not). It puts the power in your son's hands. </p>

<p>Regarding SAT prep - keep reading the New Yorker. If he takes one as a junior and needs coaching, I think that would be the time to prepare specifically for it. Since the test is new this year, I don't see how the 'coaches' out there can really effectively prep kids for it. In a couple years, they'll have it all figured out. Really - reading is the best prep for SAT (and many other things, too).</p>

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<p>The stress of DD's highschool life is not for my son. (She worked her booty off and ended up Val, took part in hours of debate, a varsity sport, volunteer work, loved it all but was always busy, busy, busy, and had almost no downtime.)
Son is smart, funny, kind, low-key and tall. He is not interested in much besides computer games, crossword puzzles, and tennis. He doesn't have a "passion", unless you count Xbox games and poker with the boys. I've talked with him about how the choices he makes now affect his college choices and possible merit-aid or FA awards, and he understands that. But I respect who he is, and I don't want his next 2 years to be me pushing and him balking. (It wouldn't work anyway. I know just how the years of violin lessons ended up!)<br>
Is your son willing to "do what it takes" to get to Stanford - realizing that even with all the numbers and ECs, it is still a lottery as to whether he actually gets in? Or, is he like my son, who does not want to live and work for the next two years in a way that is uncomfortable for him?</p>

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<p>Alumother:</p>

<p>obviously you are aware that Stanford wants kids from around the globe, and accepts ~59% of class from out-of-state (that number has been increasing over the years, btw). What that means for Cal residents is that it is much more difficult for an in-stater to be accepted bcos most kids apply to schools close to home. As a result, Stanford is flooded with apps from in-state kids.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I do not suggest that you take your S's interest in Stanford as a guide to how he should live his life. Your son is only 14, and is far too young to have any idea about what going to Stanford might mean. He has to be picking it as a goal based on something fairly superficial such as its elite status, attractive California campus, or the fact that someone he met went there.</p>

<p>He doesn't yet know enough about himself and his interests to be focused on Stanford because it's a good match for him.</p>

<p>Thus, instead of trying to shape your son in to fitting what Stanford may want, I suggest that you focus your energies on guiding your son into being the best and most fulfilled him that he is capable of being.</p>

<p>From what i have seen, for example, relatively few students are aware enough of their own interests and talents to get involved in clubs and other activities that match those things. Many students will stand on the sidelines of high school and will either follow their friends into activities or will stay relatively uninvolved.</p>

<p>This is how parents can come in: By encouraging our teens to try things that play to their strengths and interests. For instance, S had always had an interest in art, but had not before h.s. had the chance to pursue it. I encouraged him to take as an elective the most difficult art sequence.</p>

<p>He loved the class, though his grades were mediocre. The teacher even said he is very talented. While he never won any awards or even entered an art contest (S is so perfectionistic that he never had work ready when there were art shows), his art experience has greatly enriched his life and has helped him get a wonderful group of friends who appreciate art like he does. </p>

<p>I also encouraged S to try other things. For instance, since S had always enjoyed community service, I helped S to get involved in a local service organization for youth. He got great pleasure out of it, and now is an officer. He also has taken leadership by starting some service projects. </p>

<p>S does well on standardized testing, but isn't the type of kid who'll study on his own for them. I got him some books, and paid for some private tutoring and also got him in a free course at his school. These were very low key measures compared to what some parents do who force their kids to study for the SAT hours a day during the summer. S scored very well on the test though not at National Merit finalist level. </p>

<p>When it came to summer activities, I have looked to involve him in things that he's interested in and would like the opportunity to pursue in depth. This includes allowing him time to finally get to read some of the books he has put off reading throughout the year. He loves to read, but has so much schoolwork that his pleasure reading typically occurs during vacations and the summer.</p>

<p>Anyway, if you do these kind of things, when your S is a junior, he and you will have a relatively good idea about what kind of person he is, where his talents lie and what kinds of things interest and excite him. Based on those factors, you could help him apply to colleges where he'd be happy and flourish. That may or may not be Stanford.</p>

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<p>OK. A plan is beginning to emerge. No to SAT tutors. Yes to the New Yorker. Yes to what he shows interest in - which might include if I put it in front of him: program at his school for tutoring/playing soccer with Latino middle school kids, learning to build web sites and/or work with Photoshop because the next New Yorker will probably be online, Mock Trial (we have no debate team), other similar things. No to suggesting alien activities like student government. </p>

<p>And we have already had the conversation, over pasta all norma, where I said, Hon, if you want to get into Stanford it may take putting yourself out there just a bit. He was taciturn, but said he understood. We will take this one step at a time and try not to stray too far from our old-hippie, unscheduled child roots. BTW, The Stanford obssession is his - my father taught there and one of his two babyhood friends is also almost certainly Stanford-bound.</p>

<p>Any further suggestions are warmly welcomed.</p>

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<p>Revised. Maybe yes to SAT tutors:) But probably not yet...</p>