<p>Sounds like you have a handle on things! I will throw in another suggestion, to add to Oberlin and Reed: Wesleyan (where my D went). I guarantee it's full to New Yorker readers (though being a continent away from you, maybe not ever on your or your S's radar.)</p>
<p>Garland: LOL! You're so right about Wes!</p>
<p>I think it is perfectly natural that he wants to go to Stanford. That it happens to be one of the most selective colleges in the US is just one more reason to want to go there, but I don't believe it is the most prevailing one. When I lived in Pittsburgh,we went to many culteral and enrichment activities at the colleges in the city. My kids' college world pretty much was made up of Duquesne, Pitt, and CMU and that was very typical of a lot of Pittsburghers, with Penn State thrown in there as well. I have seen kids who were definitely ivy material set their sights for CMU and their parents will tell you that this was the case since they were little children. I happen to think CMU is a fine school, but it is a bit stifling to think it is the ultimate goal. When I moved to Westchester, I was in catholic school world where met Iona and Fordham families. You can go to IonaGrammar, head on to Iona Prep, and Iona College is just around the corner and down the road. Fordham also has a strong following that way. And there are a number of kids who do follow this path for familiarity's sake. So it would be nice to buy the Fiske, or Princeton Review or the Insider's Guide, and just leave it lying around, so your son can read some narratives of other schools. Stanford is as good as it gets, but it might be beneficial for him to widen his horizons since he lives so close to the school. Just a thought. If he does ultimately get into Stanford, it would still have been beneficial that he considered and researched other schools before making that decision.</p>
<p><<if he="" does="" ultimately="" get="" into="" stanford,="" it="" would="" still="" have="" been="" beneficial="" that="" considered="" and="" researched="" other="" schools="" before="" making="" decision.="">> J-mom, That's a good point. I think it will also be good for him to use this time to understand himself. I find having a boy, or at least this one, to be very different than having a girl, or at least the one I have. D could always give granular (favorite term in the software industry), subtle analyses of what she might be feeling at any moment. If I ask S how he feels, even when I know a strong emotion must be going through him, he is apt to say his throat feels funny. So the indirect method of encouraging him to browse college books makes sense.</if></p>
<p>Interesting thread! I really relate to the unpackaged kid thing. </p>
<p>I have a cool son too, aged 13. He is very intelligent (Sanford Binet 150 IQ) and is genuinely intellectually curious, but is quite disorganized (ADD: not hyper, plus visual issues we're working on, & we don't medicate so far.) Due to the extreme disorganization it's Bs not A's in his rigorous private JHS-- but we're leary to take on the risks of meds when he's functioning at the B level without them. <strong>This one of my big concerns-- an "A" brain, a "B" transcript; is that closing too many doors?</strong></p>
<p>He is extremely personable & outgoing. (No concerns for future job ability; at his sales job last summer, he made more $ at the location than the previous college kid did, and he was a 7th grader.) He has lots of passionate interests. On this level I have no worries.</p>
<p>However, the nature of the interests (making skateboarding films is his main interest, followed by playing electric guitar) seem less than collegiate. He could do these things 24/7; he makes films of his friends so they can submit them to companies get sponsored... Some of his skateboarding friends are in their 20's! </p>
<p>He also got hooked in with a local charity during his bar mitzvah, and he wanted to continue volunteering with them so once a week he is working at their warehouse. </p>
<p>When he looked through his sister's college book, he was drawn to Deep Springs & St Johns. An unusual kid!! He'd also love an outdoorsy sporty school like Middlebury; skiing is a passion & he's good all-around athlete but not a star of a team (though he was #1 in his "conditioning" class!)</p>
<p>Part of me wants to push him academically so he can be admitted to a school that matches his intellecutal level, a la Midd, but these schools require the sort of grades he may not be able to attain without drugs. I also want to accept my kid as he is, because he's wonderful. </p>
<p>Ideas on schools that would (1) be good matches for a very smart & oddly-well-rounded kid with B's that (2) also have a strong "intellectual" feel?</p>
<p>Sorry for hijack, short post got long!</p>
<p>What's wrong with Deep Springs and St. Johns? My understanding is that they attract students who are very bright and very individualistic. Sounds to me like your son may have a very good idea about what type of school best fits his quirky characteristics.</p>
<p>my daughters iq was 160 but her gpa was 3.4 ( albeit at a private prep)
she managed without drugs through high school but in college she does find them to be a great help
Also some colleges have ADD coaches available- at her school she co leads an ADD group.
besides the schools you have mentioned, you may want to look at Reed.
Very intellectual but full of students with similar issues</p>
<p>NSM & EK,</p>
<p>NSM: You're right, these schools are great. Looking for more like them. Also , though, outdoorsy/sporty schools that are more like Midd but might admit kids like my son. He'd love to do a lot of physical stuff, intermurals, teams, etc-- even the physical farm work that was probably a draw with Deep Springs. Unfortunately Deep Springs takes about 10 kids a year or something so we need to find alternatives; St Johns does not seem to have any athletic aspect.</p>
<p>EK: Reed sounds like a good one to investigate.</p>
<p>How about Grinnell? My D absolutely loved the campus when she visited. Bates might fit, too. Both of these have sports and outdoor opportunties.
We visited St. John's NM early in my daughter's college search. The program seems very interesting, but the school was a bit too small for her. They do have athletics at NM, (intramural) and a new gym.</p>
<p>Funny thing you mention Reed., as it was the first college my son's counselor mentioned to him during their first official meeting this week. We plan to look into it as well.</p>
<p>ASAP, good ideas! Both are schools my older D investigated too.</p>
<p>Our kids are similar, based on the adjective you were searching for on another thread to describe your kid's personable, connected, socially adroit nature. However, both Grinnell and Bates may want better GPA than he's likely to wind up with unless he has a big surge forward or meds. :(</p>
<p>Sbmom. I am following you around. As I said in another thread, one of my "littles" has severe ADHD and was on ritalin for many years. Not a possiblity to take him off, he would literally bounce off walls, have aberrant behaviour, couldn't hear anything directed at him, and was downright dangerous. I kept Mountain Dew around to lace the dose if the medication started to run down. But this new drug is doing wonders, once we had it calibrated properly, and miracles upon miracles, he is now an "A" student and a great athlete. We still see a counselor once a week and follow very stringent behaviour modifcation rules which probably would have benefited my older kids as well, and helped me. It really gives us a roadmap. </p>
<p>My experience with "A"level potential kids with "B" level transcrips is, unfortunately, it does preclude the most selective schools. The most important thing in that app is that transcript. and if you leaf through any college guide you will see that there are many, many A students out there. Too many, for a B student to get a pass. My girls were A students with lower test scores, and they were able to get better than their scores would indicate. That transcript is very important. </p>
<p>I think a small structured school would be the best bet for someone like your son. (mine too) In his case, the fuzzy logic, the laissez faire is a problem for him. He can bite the bullet and do what is prescribed but choose among a myriad of options is difficult for him, and he will tend to be impulsive too many times just so he does not have to make a decision. Hates the decision process. Wants it all laid out for him. Can't have it that way, but he will need to focus on this weakness enough without being in a college that operates that way. A school with a core curriculum and a course of study that is laid out may be the way to go for him. But he is young yet, and many kids with ADD seem to get better after puberty. For us, the doctor does not feel he will get better for a number of reasons, but I have seen kids who were very ADD in the lower grades make that turn.</p>
<p>I wouldn't write off Grinnell. They look beyond the stats, I've heard. </p>
<p>I probably shouldn't comment on the meds question, as this is such an individual decision dependent on so many factors...</p>
<p>SBmom--don't eliminate Grinnell from the list prematurelly. I have the S with iffy grades that is at UChicago. But he was accepted at Grinnell and was planning to go before he got off the waitlist for Chicago. What did he have going for him? A's in every math class, (but C's in some of the English/history classes), took advanced math classes (though not to the level that some on the forum do!), high test scores, took AP's (but only four, or maybe five, but took a couple of the tests without taking the class) can write well (and wrote sci fi stories online), did some computer programming as a hobby, helped the counseling office with the schools website) played piano at a high level (though technically not super good). He is not what anyone would describe as "cool," (think mathlete) except in the sense that if he thought something not worth doing (like homework) he wouldn't do it. But if he did think it was worth doing, then another story. The Grinnell interviewer talked to us after the interview, and mentioned that in the interview she had asked S to explain his grades. His explanation was that he was addicted to the internet for his first two years of high school. . . The point is if your S has some qualities or achievements that are noteworthy, but they don't happen to be reflected in his grades, a school like Grinnell may still be worth a shot.</p>
<p>ASAP, don't worry about the meds issue. I don't like it either. But in this case, there was no question for reasons I won't go into. There is a time when meds are the best course to take. I have a child who would not be alive if it were not for about 17 different potent meds taken over a 2 year period. I would love to get this one off the meds as his blood needs to be monitored while he is on them, and the long term us ramifications are not clear. So, yes, sometimes it is the way to go. It's when the kid is borderline that the issues are difficult; for us that is not the case. He would have to go to a school for behaviorally disturbed kids, and even then they would want meds; or I would have to homeschool him, but with an absolute zero attention span, I don't think I would get far. This one is way beyond that threshhold. I suspect my S2 is also ADD but it was such a borderline case, that we attributed it to personality and it was not until a couple of years ago some symptoms manifested themselves that strongly indicate that this may be an issue with him. Drugs would make a big difference, I am sure, as the drug of choice I understand is being used as a mental steroid by kids without any ADD diagnosis. We are refraining and trying to go the behavior modification, and counseling route with him even though it is more tedious. He may well decide to try the medication in time, but he can do that anytime. What he is getting is tools and structure that he can hopefully revert to under any circumstance rather than pills. That takes much longer. My younger boy is not cognisant enough to be able to absorb any methodology while off meds, so we are teaching him on meds, in hopes that some day, he will be able to use the skills to coe if he is off meds. I do not share much of his meds info with anyone at this point as he does not need a pick up dose at school with this medication, and his behaviour is now well within the norms. But both boys are seeing counselors with ADD experience and with that as their specialities.</p>
<p>Before your post, I reconsidered my comment about the meds and edited it out :), as it was posted before your earlier post, and I didn't want anyone to think I was criticizing whatever medical choices one makes for one's kid. I respect every parent's decision about this issue, as I know there are many factors involved.</p>
<p>Darn it, Northstarmom - you took most of what I was going to say and said it first. But I will add what I've grown to realize over the past couple of years, since going through the process with my first kid: College applications are like dating. Trying to figure out what a college or colleges wants in an applicant, and then trying to be that person, is sort of like trying to figure out what a girl wants in a date and then trying to be that person. It's not a great way to get a date - who wants to go out with a phony? - and even if you do, once the two of you find out what you're really like it's not likely to lead to "happily ever after." So maybe a better way to go about things is just to try to be the best person you can be, while being yourself, and then find out which girl - and which college - that makes you a good match for?</p>
<p>ASAP, </p>
<p>Thanks for your sensitivity :) but if you'd like to comment I would actually welcome your opinion. We have not ruled out meds by any means. We wanted to sort through the vision issues first (12 week course of vision therapy; we're on week 4) and then reassess. We may indeed opt for medication down the line, though right now the glasses, plus behavior modification, more oversight, & a study period in place of a language class have taken him from D's & C's to all B's (as of this week.) We've only gotten going with new program since January 15, and he has had to climb out of the grade cellar. He may keep going to A level.</p>
<p>If he tops out at B's and can't break into A territory, we'd maybe consider meds to help him realize his academic potential. However, unlike Jamimom's kid, mine is now a B student who is happy, sociable, & well-liked <em>without</em> meds (actually he had been elected to class office but had to give it up when average went below 3.0 in fall.) </p>
<p>So I am in the position of throwing meds at a B student with a happy life; this is a very hard decision and makes me wonder if it is me improperly projecting my own notions of optimal achievement on my child when he's nowhere near the abyss. If there seems to be any question, I would probably let him make the decision to try meds or not, just because I could see it going either way and it is his body, brain, life.</p>
<p>SBmom, that is a tough decision. We are looking at meds for the older kid now as there are other implications of ADD with teenagers. He was always able to stay about one step away from the diagnosis, and was a haphazard student but could always pull it up. But as they get older, if the ADD does not work its way out,, or they do not learn to deal with it, behavioural issues, and other problems come up. Again, like you, we do not want to throw meds at him as he is functioning waaay above most kids, but the impulse control and procrastination are taking major proportions in his issues. So we are doing counseling with someone who specializes with ADD in teenagers who feels that he is a classic example of a bright kid who was able to deal with his ADD until life took the next step, and he has to deal with a whole new host of choices. He may well need to go on meds, but I do not want to make the decision lightly, and thus far we are dealing without it. The problem is that there is a period of adjustment when the doses have to be determined, and he should be at home for this, not a way at school. But I think we are going to take our chances,as he is very aware that he has this problem, a big first step. And he does not want to go on these meds, as he knows a number of kids on them (there are more than you would think; I was shocked who was taking this stuff) and he feels that it makes a major difference in personality and creativity. Calls the kids robots. Now with my younger one, it is clear he needs some kind of medication, and though I do believe it does rob him somewhat of his personality, it allows him to function which otherwise would not be permitted as his behaviour can be that aberrant. With him, the next step is to be determined. If you want to read about these medications, do google them, as you will see that wide spread use of them is increasing even for kids who truly do not have ADD, since they seem to work on a wide spectrum of kids.</p>
<p>SBmom - is your son a freshman, or is he still an 8th grader? 13, you said.</p>
<p>I wouldn't presume to know what's best for your son, except that I do like your idea of letting him decide when the time comes. If it were me, and my son were happy and could maintain a B average - especially considering the school he goes to, which is a private with a rather tough grading system, I'd do without, but take it one year at a time. I would be constantly reevaluating, as months and years went by, and maybe a time would come when I would know it was the right thing (meds) for him. Until then, I'd try all the other things, as you're doing, and let maturity do it's thing, too.
It seems like he's on track now. I'd want to give him time to make the adjustments that you put in place this year, and then see. There certainly is no easy answer.
I admire you parents who have children with different learning styles and other issues, vision etc., that make it more difficult to gauge what expectations should be. By the time kids are in high school, fortunately they're able to participate in these decisions, so you don't have to feel so completely responsible for the outcome. That's some help, I'm sure.</p>
<p>Kluge - I love your dating analogy. :)</p>