Original: Advice for intelligent but cool S's long path to college

Parents Forum
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<p>OK everyone. His going after Stanford is not a sign of ignorance. Of lack of knowledge perhaps, but not ignorance. We live 10 blocks from the place, his best friend wants to go there, my dad was a professor there for 40 years. That said, yes he has a lot yet to learn about what he wants to do and where will be a good fit for him. Tonight, with my dad over for dinner, we actually discussed this forum and much of the advice I've gotten. I distilled it out to this; a) don't make him do something completely alien to his being, and freshman year is OK to let pass by b) as you all say, just straight As and APs and high SATs from a v. good private high school won't get him. I suppose the good news is that despite his current testosterone haze, he heard it. We will see what happens.</p>

<p>And I disagree - the Sandman is an interesting read, at least as he reports it. Broad references to mythology, bible, philosophy. However, agreed, I will be broadening his reading list. First, the fantasy series Jamimom recommended. Second, essays of all types, because it's the reviews he most likes. Not fiction, commentary. So I will coax out commentary from a 14 year old, amongst the pimples and the braces and the barrage of women in US Weekly. I have faith. At the end of the day he is my baby and I believe I know him. As I said, we will see what happens.</p>

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<p>Alumother, you've hit on the key point when you say "I have faith. At the end of the day he is my baby and I believe I know him." Nobody knows your child like you do. Throughout the whole college search journey, it's critical for you to remain your child's advocate. I'd suggest you take a look at the "connotations" thread on the Parents Cafe board.</p>

<p>On reading: Two authors I would recommend would be Vonnegut and DeLillo. Also, the Best American Non Required Reading series is quite good for non-fiction.</p>

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<p>Omg, you sound about as superficial as your son! No wonder!</p>

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<p>"I will be broadening his reading list."</p>

<p>This might work for you and him. I don't know. The kids I know who have been admitted to the top schools did not tend to have their parents in the driver's seat in this way. If my s loved a certain author whom I had read, I might suggest another book by the same author. For the most part, though, his reading and activities came from him. There are books all over our house and we make frequent trips to libraries and bookstores and we had dinner together every night, with conversation about our own interests, our kids' interests, the news of the day, etc. , but for me to try to choose my s's reading list...well, that would not have worked. In his coolness and resistance to school, I recognized a strong-willed kid, and I was not about to tamper with that because I saw it could lead to good things. And it did. </p>

<p>If you read these boards for a while you will hear from many of us that our kids ran us ragged driving them to activities that interested them, paying for programs to support the subjects they were intensely curious about, just keeping up with them. Once they get to a top university, they need to have this kind of initiative in order to seek out professors and get to know them, get involved in the ECs on campus that tend to be a major focus of social life, and take advantage of the research opportunities, etc., that make these institutions what they are. ECs on these campuses are at a very high level and include elections, auditions, national and international contacts, and professional or near-professional achievement. If you spoon-feed a kid, you may get one who has a resume that looks good, but the "muscles" that get developed in the exploratory process initated by him have not developed. A kid who is not as outgoing and determined as this might do better in a smaller environment.</p>

<p>So what I am suggesting is...make opportunities available to him. Let him know there are options out there. Encourage friendships with peers who will draw him in and inspire him to get involved in things at school and in the community. But let him be in charge.</p>

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<p>By broadening his reading list, I meant only that I will suggest additional books. As I have said, we are old-hippie type parents. No spoon-feeding occurs. No molding kids into what looks good for college etc. Both my kids went to an alternative school where they had no grades for goodness sakes. My daughter <em>has</em> driven me crazy with her drive. My son is a different person whom I love just as much, for who he is, in all his quirky sweet ways. The goal of the post was to get advice on the balance between continuing in the path of laissez-faire and moving slightly into the world where competitive college applications require more than feels wholly sane. Since he wanted to go to Stanford. Which knowing him, is not a whim. </p>

<p>And my son and I seem superficial? I must be a terrible poster. Thanks all for the advice in any case.</p>

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<p>" Since he wanted to go to Stanford. Which knowing him, is not a whim.
"</p>

<p>Stanford is down the street, which makes it an easy college for him to fall in love with. Are you giving him a chance to see up close other colleges, including those that differ a great deal from Stanford? Unless he has had the opportunity to do this, his love for Stanford must be based on superficial things because he lacks any comparison.</p>

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<p>I would agree with Northstarmom (post #46) that it is VERY important for a young person to get a lot of information about a lot of colleges, especially if that young person has already become focused on a highly selective college that is not a sure thing for admission. I've found that important for myself, a parent, because the local state university is very nearby, and is my alma mater, so I tend to think about all other colleges in terms of State U. But last school year, when I attended one regional information session for one famous out-of-state college, I soon found that that college dominated my thinking about possibilities in case my son decided to study out of state at a more selective school. That vision was too narrow too. So this year, I attended, VERY EARLY (my son is only twelve years old) several other local information sessions presented by quite a variety of different out-of-state colleges. My idea, and it seems to have succeeded, was to bring all of those colleges to a more equal footing inside our minds, so my son and I can cogitate slowly over several years about which colleges are really a good fit. In my son's case, he can also cogitate about how much fire in the belly he really has to pursue an education at a college other than State U., which fortunately is a reasonably strong college in most of the fields he is most interested in. </p>

<p>Focusing too early can be quite dangerous, because it sets up a child for disappointment. And focusing too early is almost inevitable if the child has much more available information about one school than about any other. It is a really good idea to keep looking for Plan B and Plan C any time your child (or you ;) ) appear to have settled on a Plan A. Failing to consider seriously Plan A not working is equivalent to settling for Plan ZZ, which is what a regrettably large number of applicants do every year. You are doing the right thing here by asking ahead, and I urge you, parent-to-parent, to increase the flow of information to your son about other colleges than the one that is nearby.</p>

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<p>my daughter really wants to go to school in Hawaii although I have a big problem with
transportation
lack of public support for their universities
percieved prejudice against mainlanders especially haoles, and lack of academic standing among mainland schools.
SO while I realize that C schools are difficult for out of state residents, I am keeping them in mind for what may be a better fit for her but still have the surfing and the marine biology that she wants.
It is really about finding the right school for the student, it is admissions job to find right student for school.</p>

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<p>I don't think focusing on Stanford is a bad thing if it can get a highschooler motivated to do well in high school. Eventually, however, it will be a good idea to open him to more opportunities and to the idea of reach, match and safety schools.</p>

<p>As for suggestions for reading, I am alert to works that might interest my S, be they in math, science or sci-fi and humor (none of which I read myself). I am as likely to point to a new Piers Anthony as to Roger Penrose's The Road to Reality which is reviewed in today's NYT Book review section. It will be up to him whether to read either, both, or neither. I know better, however, than to suggest he read something because it is a classic or important. Instant kiss of death!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Omg, you sound about as superficial as your son! No wonder!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Was that really necessary? It's a wonder any new posters ever stick around, whast with the tendency to read the worst possible meanings into everything they say.</p>

<p>Alumother: your S sounds a lot like mine. I wrote a very long answer yesterday which my computer ate, but overall, I think your strategy you're developing here to work with him, but nudge and inform at the same time, is very similar to what we did. And I often suggested books for him to read. And he usually ignored me, but sometimes didn't, and was often glad when he did try something new.</p>

<p>He did end up at his dream school (Columbia), though he did also recognize, as has been discussed here, the necessity of finding somewhere else to love, too, knowing the long odds involved.</p>

<p>Best wishes to you and your son.</p>

1 Like
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<p>"Was that really necessary? It's a wonder any new posters ever stick around, whast with the tendency to read the worst possible meanings into everything they say."</p>

<p>Garland, Thanks. I wasn't sure if that comment referred to Alumother or me. Either way it was a bit rough.</p>

<p>Alumother, My advice to every family starting out on the college path -- Aim high, but love thy safety! Contradictory, yes, but sanity saving.</p>

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<p>Momrath, I kinda thought it was aimed at the OP, but it really seemed unkind and unwarranted either way.</p>

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<p>I like to suggest books to S to read, and he does the same to me. One of my favorite summers was when we went on vacation bringing a large pile of each of our favorite books. We had a lot of fun reading each others' favorites. :)</p>

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<p>What I notice is that OP son does things for himself and solo. That is fine, but some work in that area might be a good idea. Is there anything he does for others or with others? This is important, not just for college admission, but for growth as a person. Stanford, I would guess, is kind of a sink or swim environment, so having skills that take you into the world would be very helpful.</p>

<p>A suggestion- soccer referering- its a job, shows responsibility and commitment, soccer coaching little kids, finding what he likes to do, and taking it to the next level....computer stuff- help older people learn,</p>

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<p>theoretically that sounds like a good idea northstarmom, and I do try to periodically read what my daughter is reading for school especially if she is excited about it, but she likes to read LOTR over and over including books Tolkien wrote afterwards,and I really don't have the concentration for that anymore
I have been steering her to some of my favorite essayists
Stephen jay Gould, Joan Didion James Thurber. I have a short attention span, I like to stick with short stories and essays ;)</p>

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<p>I hope my post didn't sound like a criticism, what OPs son does right now is typical freshman boy stuff, but to do Stanford, or any other competitive college, if that is the goal, a student does need to pull out of the typical place. They do need to find a passion and follow it. It will take some exploring, which is good anyway, and then follow that passion. </p>

<p>And, ps, I personally feel its fine to nudge, push and direct teens because while they think they know what they are doing, often they are really clueless!!!!</p>

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<p>Wait a minute, Alumother, I did not recommend that series. I have not read it myself so I want to get that cleared right up just in case there is objectionable stuff in there. I know my son practically needs to be rapped on the head to get his attention when he is reading one of those books, which is one drawback. He came home from school one day and said we had to go to Borders immediately because he lost his book. When I found out it was of THAT series, I told him he could look for it a bit longer since he just lost it today, and that he could use a break from the book. He retorted that he knew the book was lost, he was not going to find it. Well, a couple of days later, I went to the school and ran into his science teacher, who gave me the book confiscated from S who was reading during class. I see many of the kids in his school reading this series, and when I was sitting during S's auditions I saw several boys reading it as well, so it must be engaging, but if any of you do happen to read it and find it pure garbage, well, I did not personally recommend the series. I have not read it--just skimmed the first volume and seemed like the usual fantasy stuff to me.<br>
I do like Sandman, though. The Midsummernight's Dream story was truly a fascinating take on the play. </p>

<p>But I don't think any of these readings are the road to Stanford. If he kid likes the New Yorkers, there are enough literary leads to all sorts of excellent writers and books that he can pursue. My son is not at that level of interest. </p>

<p>There was a post at one time about these leading edge college consultants that "makeover" kids to be selective school material. I am sure they would have ideas galore about what to do with bright, young kids with no particular "hook". But this "Pygmalian" approach seems to me to stunt a growth process that can be so beautiful when things naturally blossom. Also, I wonder how successful such makeovers are. Having two kids who were "specialty" kids through their own interests, the time, energy, motivation it takes to reach the upper echelons of any field is enormous and even kids who really want it and have the parental support and opportunities do not always get there. And this is with the passion burning in the kid! How far are you going to push or drag a kid who is competing with kids who are revving their own engines? </p>

<p>So, as parents, we try to widen the horizons a little, give them opportunities, but ultimately it is the kid who has to lead the way.</p>

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<p>I am not suggesting a "makeover", my point is that guiding does no harm and sometimes kids do need a push. The OP loves soccer, so why not explore other possibilities in that area. I agree it is ultimately up to the kids to succeed. My D was reluctant to ref soccer games, but what she got out of it was invaluable. On reason she was reluctant was she was nervous she might not do well. That is often what holds kids back. Its not laziness or disinterest, it is possibly embarassing themselves and letting other people down. If kids don't take chances on their own, sometimes we have to encourage them. Letting them know whatever the outcome, if they tried, that is all we as parents want</p>

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<p>here in the East it's common to hear so and so 14 year old wants to go to Princeton or Harvard, of course it's because they are well-known and prestigious, but the kids (and often parents) don't have a clue if it's the right fit or how hard it is to get into.</p>

<p>Little early to say but almost sounds like your talented son might eventually be more like an Oberlin or Reed kid.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"Was that really necessary? It's a wonder any new posters ever stick around, whast with the tendency to read the worst possible meanings into everything they say."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Thank you Garland for the kind comment. I assumed it was meant for me, the OP. Joining a board like this is kind of like starting at a new high school must be. You don't want the kids to be mean to you and there's that nagging fear of dorkhood. </p>

<p>
[quote]
So, as parents, we try to widen the horizons a little, give them opportunities, but ultimately it is the kid who has to lead the way.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Jamimom, I agree. I spent the day with S, helping him try to despyware his computer. But, letting him lead the way. What this thread has brought home to me is that part of my anxiety here is caused by my work status. I work fulltime, long hours, and I travel. I was home full time when the kids were little, I was home much more with my D, and so with her I had full confidence in the path. With my S, in some ways the real answer is I need to spend more time in his vicinity, for his benefit and mine. We can have those conversations about the articles he reads and the books I read (we have been talking about Thurber lately BTW - big New Yorker history). He will probably pick up something from me, I will get my own self comfortable with his path. Which would certainly help him out, wouldn't it;)</p>

<p>To all who have suggested it thanks for idea to follow the soccer route to have him do things for other people. Referreeing, volunteering in the local community, maybe tutoring too. He's good with little kids, he drops the cool thing fast.</p>

<p>And there's another aspect to all of this. Upon reflection, I now believe that his wish for Stanford is probably encoded. Not superficial, but encoded. Probably if decoded it means " I want to stay close to home and be with my friends and be with other kids who are intelligent and I still want to make you happy and satisfy your desire that I go to a good school." As he grows, if we do this right, the phrase "I want to go to x college" will get much richer with meaning to him and to us.</p>