Out-of-control college-age daughter

Parents Forum
41

You have received some very good advice here but I will just add that a friend of mine works as a nurse in a private doctor’s office. She has shared with me that it is becoming very common for parents to come into the office complaining that their child has sleep issues. The doctor always starts with limiting “screen time.” This includes video games, laptops and phones. Apparently its become a huge problem among our youth because they are spending so much time on a screen, often close to their face (unlike television time), and they are finding that the brain doesn’t get adequate time to shut down and relax before trying to fall asleep. The screen acts as a constant stimulant. This might be a place to start for your daughter to work on her sleep issues rather than smoking pot. The doctor suggests stopping all screen time at least an hour and half before the desired sleep time.

With all due respect, I find it concerning that you don’t want to ask your daughter to see her grades until in the therapist office. This suggests to me that your daughter is the one in control rather than the parents. You are the parent who is paying some, if not all your daughter’s bills and should be seeing the grades the day they come. Until she lives on her own and supports herself, you are the parents and what you say goes and her grades are certainly your immediate business.

42

I don’t have a curfew for my daughter, though I do ask her to tell me if she is coming in at the wee hours. I guess she is so straight-laced it hasn’t occured to us to give her a curfew. Her friends are all staright laced too. As far as her being an adult, if she starts getting lippy, I ususlly ask “Do you pay bills, rent, your phone, etc…? When you do, we can talk more about your rights as an adult in this house.” We respect her right to privacy at home and so on, but she doesn’t get to tell us what she is and isn’t willing to do. That may change as she gets older and assumes more responsibility, but she is still 18.

43

I understand that ADHD and anxiety are big challenges and that you are worried she hasn’t done well on her own, after years of support at home.

However, the things you describe in this thread seem in the normal range, to me. I don’t see any spiraling out of control and believe me, some of us have seen that happen! I may be missing something…

I am impressed that your daughter got herself an incomplete and also that she made helping a friend a priority.
(If she gets financial aid, by the way, it should continue until she finishes, even with a reduced course load, if that reduction is for a registered disability, which it is.)

The key information that is missing here is the grades. If they are significantly worse than in high school, and reflect lifestyle or habits versus organizational challenges, then you do have a problem to confront with her. If her grades went down because she lacked adequate support for her ADHD that is a different story. Still needs to be addressed but hardly her fault, and coaching should be improved somehow.

Your other thread mentions taking a semester off. I am not clear on why that would happen. Many kids go a little overboard when first experiencing freedom. If the drinking is not interfering with health or school, it seems okay and will probably moderate naturally. If not, you will know.

Pot to sleep in a state where it is legal, seems innocuous to me, and more benign than sleep meds. It is not physically addictive and that gateway stuff is from the 1950’s. You could help her get medicinal marijuana which would not contain elements that cause highs.

It seems that many kids reverse their sleep schedule at college. However, if she is experiencing distress over her sleep then seeking help is a good idea. If she is just in a home now that has a different schedule, let her naturally get back to being up in the day.

The fact that you cannot talk about grades, and she has not shared them, is the biggest concern. I find it troubling that you can only raise this issue in the therapist’s office. If she got bad grades, I hope you can remain calm, avoid blaming at the outset, help her feel safe to talk, and together find solutions. Show confidence in her and that trust will come back to you.

Often what seems like some kind of disaster can be converted to an opportunity.

44

I ask everyone staying in my home, regardless of age or relationship to me, to be in by midnight. I’m not running a hotel. Common courtesy to others living there would dictate not disturbing others late at night by coming in, just as I don’t disturb others by turning on the t.v. if I get up at 5 am. Perhaps you could remind your daughter that adults their actions results on others too.

45

OP, I think you are right to be concerned. Missing a final exam should have been a delay of a few days or a week and she should be done with the requirement now. And agree with other poster that admitting to 4 drinks might be signalling more. And the staying up all night and sleeping all day does not lead to having any productive time.

I agree that Benadryl works well for getting to sleep. I wonder if a visit with a psychiatrist would be more helpful than a therapist. If your student is struggling, she may need medication. She is already medicating without supervision or a plan with alcohol and pot, and regularly. She needs to take responsibility for her health, and therapy could help here. But the anxiety, sleeplessness, drinking sound like a physical health crisis brewing. The lack of any plans for resolving the incompletes, getting a job, structuring time sound like a mental health crisis brewing.

Please consider working with a whole health care team and considering medications to help manage her conditions. Of course most medications for this are likely contraindicated with alcohol use, so that is another hurdle. Will your daughter be in a better spot to think clearly if she is better rested? That may be the first and most immediate thing to try to conquer with help from a physician or psychiatrist who has the whole picture in mind, and to work from there afterwards.

46

I had an out of control kid (for a time) in high school. Your daughter sounds like a normal college student during the week after finals. Since you mentioned problems with school/classes, I would worry more about treating her mental health issues and less about her curfew. My D is home for her first summer after freshman year and she was regularly going OUT at 11:30 during that first week home (some of her older friends were just home for a quick visit before returning to their college towns for jobs and tended to have late night gatherings). She settled into a better schedule the second week home.

You mentioned that you had her ADHD meds adjusted, but the anxiety may be what is causing the sleeplessness. (My ADHD son does not take meds on non-school days; my daughter with anxiety needs to take her meds every day like clockwork). The weed probably relieves her anxiety and lets her sleep, but should not be used in place of a prescribed medicine. You mentioned that she stopped taking her meds before, so work with her doctors to find different ones.

47

@compmom Pot could be a gateway drug per the National Institute of Health.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

This is TODAY. Not the 1950’s. In any case, if you’re OK with your children having lung issues when they’re older, that’s your prerogative. And we all know that smoking pot causes laziness and hunger, which could lead to being overweight and kids not getting off the couches.

Consult a doctor. Find another sleep aid.

48

“In any case, if you’re OK with your children having lung issues when they’re older, that’s your prerogative.”
You do realize that there are other ways to ingest cannabis than by smoking it? Nor is laziness and hunger a universal side effect. I don’t partake but I also don’t see it as much worse than alcohol, many prescription drugs or even using Benadryl on the regular for something it wasn’t intended for.

49

That summer after the first year of college is the worst! Our approach was similar to @twoinanddone 's. If you’ve got to get up and go to work, the late nights limit themselves. No job? Enroll in classes at the community college, get a regular full time volunteer gig, maybe both. Nobody gets to come home from college and do nothing, and everybody has to pay his or her own personal expenses, including uber. Sorry, but adult privileges come with at least some adult responsibilities. This was true even the for the kid with the MI. Get the therapy and the med adjustment. Sounds like you know the drill. But having issues does not give someone a pass to behave badly and tromp on house rules. We didn’t have a curfew for our adult kids, but I know families who do. Everybody, even DH and I, let everybody in the house know the “plan” for dinner, coming home, etc. Pot is illegal in my state. No way is it in my house. Don’t like the rules? Better find a way to live elsewhere next summer–get an internship “away.”

Your daughter really doesn’t sound out of control, but she needs to learn that being an adult doesn’t mean she does whatever she wants. As my oldest tells me, adult it is really hard and not nearly as much fun as she thought it would.

50

Is there any state where pot is legal for 18 year olds? Even in wicked and wild Colorado, it is only legal for those over 21, except for medical.

The smoking would be the issue to me. No smoking in my house. No cigarettes (also legal), no vapor, no pot. I don’t even like my daughter to have candles in her room.

51

Good God still with the gateway drugs stuff? Caffeine is the ultimate gateway drug if you want to go that route :wink:

Also yes many people who consume pot do not smoke. But smoking is the easiest way if you don’t have a supportive household. Baking pot food is a bit difficult to hide.

52

@doschicos Never said it’s universal to be lazy and hungry. And “edibles” are fraught with issues as well, issues with obesity, diabetes, etc., but you have eliminated lung problems, if you don’t smoke pot. I don’t know the % of people who smoke versus edibles. But smoking isn’t going to help your lungs as one ages.

Drugs and alcohol, OTC, prescribed or not, are something I’d avoid. Comparing them doesn’t make any sense to me. This one is worse than that one? YMMV.

53

You certainly should compare various drugs and evaluate the risks of each. Benzodiazepine (used to treat anxiety and insomnia) vs pot for long-term use for chronic conditions? I’d vote for pot all day long.

Many prescription drugs are far, far more dangerous than pot in terms of toxicity, side-effects, and addictiveness. If you can take the emotion out of it, why wouldn’t someone choose the safer option?

54

I have battled a similar situation with my ADHD/Anxiety daughter. She has a decent GPA but far from her best work and is very capable. Has lacked impulse control in College and has developed a drinking problem and smoking problem. She comes home only at Christmas and stays in her College town in the summer. But, she was just home for ten days, and prior to her coming home, I laid out all the ground rules and told her they would be followed or she would not be able to come home for extended visits. I also give her ZERO money. She has all her College and living expenses paid through various scholarships and she works part time. I would help her out more, but not with her spending money on booze and cigarettes. I have told her she gets no money, no matter what, until those habits cease. We don’t have a lot of extra money and I am darn sure not going to spend it on cigarettes and alcohol. Also, for kids taking stimulant meds for ADHD, clonidine is typically a very safe, non-addictive sleep aid.

55

You can argue about which drug is safer than another. That’s fantastic. Knock yourself out. And maybe later in life when “your” (not you specifically) medicine cabinet looks like the inside of the local CVS, best of luck with that outcome. :)>-

IMO seek a drug and alcohol free life. For the OP, seek professional help. But giving advice over the internet means assumptions and little to no facts. To me, smoking or eating pot isn’t a safe® alternative. I got to go to work and exercise each day and putting crap in my body is not an option. Again YMMV.

56

We aren’t against medication- she is on a stimulant for her ADHD after all and really cannot function without it. I am wary of benzos or something like Ambien bc I took Ambien for two years (they used to prescribe it long term) and it was difficult to quit.
I think we will try the time release melatonin and I will talk to her doctor about something non-addictive like Gabapentin which is used quite often for sleep now (since doctors are trying to move away from the addictive meds).
As I said, I have no moral objection to pot but I do think it can make one unmotivated and that’s the last thing she needs. Plus it’s illegal no matter how old one is where she goes to school.

57

There’s also the issue of drug tests for jobs. I’m not against pot but I wouldn’t want my daughters to lose a job because of using it.

58

You can help her with the sleep issue by finding a good sleep specialist. There are simple things she should know related to sleep hygiene (getting exposure to daylight early in the am, minimizing light–often from screens–before bed, avoiding alcohol at night). Melatonin is very useful but not a panacea. Benadryl and ambien are not used for long term issues these days. Gabapentin and lyrica can be useful but long term effects aren’t clear, and there are significant withdrawal effects for some folks. I would start with a sleep specialist before self medicating because a big chunk of this could be a sleep phase issue that can be addressed with behavioral changes. If you can help her understand that poor sleep is a real health problem (not a moral failing), that’d be a huge help for the rest of her life.

59

drug tests for jobs<<<<<<

                      Even very low entry jobs, kid had to be tested for Home Depot for example. Even if there is no drug prescreen, jobs might have drug screenings post safety incidents. These are considerations for anyone who has a job, drives a car, etc. It isn't a moral or ethical consideration, merely practical.  
                      Frankly the idea that the kid gets to say she is using pot for sleep makes me chuckle at her ability to find a nice hot mum/dad button.
60

Recreational pot is still illegal under state law in most places. If the OP mentioned which state they live in, I missed it. Marijuana is illegal everywhere under federal law.