Out-of-control college-age daughter

Please beware of overuse of Benadryl, which has a drying effect for the body, including the lungs, and has other side effects, like muscle tremors, if overused too long. There is also a withdrawal that no one seems to know about.

My kids are all accomplished, hard-working adults now and they dabbled in alcohol and pot during college, came home with terrible sleep habits from staying up to early morning hours at college, and sometimes had to find something to do after coming home, at least early on.

ADHD is a serious issue and figuring out the best meds for it can take a long time, especially when there is anxiety or insomnia too. But over time things can be figured out.

Sometimes exams cannot be made up until the fall, and the incomplete continues until the exam can be taken. Colleges often have a make up exam for everyone who missed exams, at a later date. I would be proud of one of my kids if they went to the ER with a friend, and clearly the college agreed because they granted an incomplete. It can be difficult to get an incomplete.

I think that evaluation of the situation depends on grades and from a distance, online, not knowing anything, I would not want to say anything more.

The site is not letting me edit. Just want to say that we all bring our own experiences to these threads. They can be like inkblot tests in that way. Only the OP really knows if this is a crisis or not. Some of us may say it isn’t, because we have seen worse situations, or because we haven’t had troubles at all. Some come from families with addictions, some from families who partake without problems. So to the OP, I respect your concern and don’t mean to minimize.

@compmom I didn’t think you were trying to minimize. Thanks for your input. I can’t figure out if I’m over-reacting (I tend to) or if there is a real problem. Hopefully therapy will help us figure it out.

Hugs to the OP.
With regard to sleep, you may want to see if the sleep issue resolves itself after being home for a few weeks. My D has had on and off sleep issues for years. But they do seem to be somewhat related to stress and times where she has had too much on her plate. So perhaps after she has been home for awhile and has had a chance to decompress, the sleep will get better. As for the pot, my issue is that at 18, the brain is.still developing, and since marijuana can have adverse effects on brain development and cognitive functioning, I’m just not a fan.

Am I the only one for whom this doesn’t add up? It’s not that I doubt the friend thing happened, but it still doesn’t make sense. Even assuming she couldn’t have taken her book to the hospital. The only time she had to study for the final was the night before? And her average in the class wasn’t strong enough to cushion a bad final exam?

I think the substance abuse angle is a red herring. It may be a real problem - hard to diagnose secondhand over the internet - but plenty of people manage to pass four or five classes with much worse drug and alcohol habits than you’ve described for your daughter.

@RelicAndType yes, I thought this, too. I know my daughter and when she called us the night before her final to tell us her friend was in the hospital I believed her (she sounded shaken) but I also told my husband she would use it as an excuse not to take her final…and she did. Of course she had time to study before- but I had a feeling she had not studied much before that night.

Her college is very, very accommodating.

^^Yes, maybe too accommodating. I could see them letting her take the test later in the day, or the next day, but putting it off until the end of the summer? That just seems crazy.

I went to law school with a woman who discovered she was pregnant just after fall classes started. She went into labor the week before finals started. She came back about a week after finals and just took them as she knew she’d do better then than after the summer. All four finals, not just one. If she could do it…

I didn’t put it together at the start of this thread that it is the same student who is not going back in the fall, maybe taking a gap year, because of the troubles of first year at an elite school. I think there is a lot going on and little time to bring it all together over the summer if you don’t get going. What does your daughter want? I think her actions are telling you she doesn’t want to go back.

Have her evaluated for sleep issues, especially dsps (delayed phase syndrome) IE., people who naturally fall asleep at 2, 3, 4 or 5am, sleep 7-8 hours, and wake up refreshed. If someone has dsps having an early class or job doesn’t ‘do’ anything except exhaust and guilt-trip. Having to be ‘in’ early may be counter productive because the default occupation for teens
Typically it’d mean no close screen after 1 am (TV is OK, not computer/tablet/phone; reading from book or Kindle not from tablet…) + melatonin at that time. If she has trouble falling asleep at 5 am the goal should be to sleep at 2-3am. It’ll provide some relief.
Be aware also that it’s pretty normal for college students to sleep till noon for a week or more when they get home after finals (and it’s common for parents to post about it.)
Taking a final after being up all night with a friend in the hospital is reckless and, frankly, stupid. You take exams after time studying and focusing on the subject matter. Your daughter had the foresight to ask for an incomplete, which few freshmen think of. It’s pretty good.
Not knowing her grades isn’t good, but remember that as long as she passed she should be okay (obviously 3.0+is better :slight_smile: ).
If she can’t drop the pot after taking melatonin to fall asleep you know there’s a problem.

I really feel for you. However, I respectfully say it sounds like you are scared to talk to your child or have a conversations with them. I know it is hard, nobody likes confrontation, but if you can find a time to talk when she is just hanging out ie; not heading out or just getting home it may be more productive.

I have so much to say on this topic but I think everyone finds their own way to deal with things. What is right in my family may not work for yours. It’s a hard line to walk - you don’t want them to push them away and you can’t be their best friend. Non-judgemental communication is the key. Good luck

@Emsmom1

We have a 19 yo who gets great grades, but boy, does she ever struggle emotionally. It’s challenging to stay connected because she is so private, and it’s challenging to send a message of unconditional love & support because she can be so unpleasant. Thank God for texting.

We ask both of our adult children, ages 19 and 21, to be home by midnight or spend the night at a friend’s (especially if going down to the city). This is for selfish reasons; so we parents get a good night’s sleep.

We expect our kids to work & pay for their clothes, toiletries, and fun money. We back this up by not giving them money. This can have unintended consequences, of course.

It’s not easy. I recommend therapy, but you can’t make them go or make them buy into treatment.

@Emsmom1
I don’t know if there are any medical specialists online here, so if anyone can back me up on this, please jump in. I’d like to give you some information I received about 10 years ago.
I’ve worked with ADD students at my high school. We are required to take continuing education. In one of my continuing ed courses, the presenters indicated that a number of our high school-age ADD kids smoke pot because it “normalizes” them. There were brain studies done that showed that the ADD kids responded to the pot and helped the kids to “act normally”. When asked, the kids also indicated that they felt “better” in school when they smoked pot. It blew us away and explained some things to us.
If anyone can find that study, I would like to read it.
In the meantime, I agree with the previous suggestions about a good team of medical and behavior specialists to help the family. Take away the cash/keys until she sees the therapists.

I disagree that the sleep schedule is the major problem here. She’s staying up way too late and then sleeping in way too late. This is not at all uncommon for college kids. Yes, the underlying causes are an issue, but the sleep schedule itself is just a symptom, not a cause. If you try to address the sleep without addressing the other stuff, it won’t do any good.

There are several possible issues here:

One, she may be struggling academically. You really do need to know how her grades are. If she is on academic probation, then you need to find out what that means and what she will have to achieve next year. And then you should sit down with her and figure out what she needs to do to achieve that – whether you can help her find tutoring, or whether she can maybe work with an academic coach over the summer to help her learn to focus better and have better study habits.

Two, her anxiety, now that she’s gone off her meds, may be causing her problems. My D had to go off of Prozac last fall (upon the recommendation of her psychiatrist) and it gave her anxiety spikes and panic attacks as well as a serious increase in depression. She could hardly even attend school, let alone get homework done, for a few weeks. And that was as a result of gradual titrating down – not suddenly going off of it entirely. If that’s what your daughter has done, that may explain everything else right there. You MUST take her to see her psychiatrist and get to the bottom of what’s going on.

Three, even if she is still taking her antidepressants, she may be feeling depressed anyway. College is a big change and a big stressor, and many students, including those with no mental/emotional issues, go off the rails to some extent. Partying with her friends and refusing to make any plans for the summer sounds to me like she may be hiding from the depression and anxiety by refusing to think about it. The problem is that all the problems she’s avoiding will still be there when she goes back to college in the fall.

Here’s what I would do: first, make an appointment with her psych and probably with a therapist as well. Second, figure out where she stands academically so you can plan for next fall. Third, you need to remember what your job is as a parent of a college student. As others have said, she’s 18 and the only way you can put rules on her (curfew, must be asleep by midnight, whatever) is by threatening to quit paying for college if she disobeys. I don’t quite see you doing that, and I’m sure she knows it too. So quit trying to lay down the law and instead tell yourself that your job is simply to help her be successful in life. After all, that’s what you want, right?

She has the summer to do whatever she needs to do to have a successful sophomore year at college. That may mean she doesn’t get a job this summer, but instead focuses on her study habits. It may mean that she spends the summer simply volunteering somewhere where she will enjoy the work and it won’t put a lot of demands on her. (If she’s at an elite school she’s had a demanding year – taking it easy this summer may be what she needs.) Don’t forbid her from going out with friends – instead, tell her that she has to have some kind of regular schedule during the day. If she doesn’t have a job, she has to commit to a volunteering schedule, or to having sessions with an academic coach, or something. Once she has a regular daytime schedule, her sleep schedule should adjust. And once she has a reason to get out of bed every day, hopefully she won’t feel the need to drink or get high every weekend.

Hope this helps.

^^^ mom has pointed to ‘very bad insomnia’ and daughter has claimed to be self-medicating to get sleep. You’re right that none of us can know where this fits within the hierarchy of issues, and only a specialist can assess whether there is a sleep issue. But if there is, it could seriously affect many aspects of the daughter’s life, and is a long term health issue. The good news is that there are things that can be done. So why not take the daughter at her word and use the summer to schedule a consult (which could take several weeks to schedule)? For people with sleep disorders, getting a good night of sleep can be life changing.

Pot is a terrible idea for people under 25. A few months ago, at a major research university, my daughter attended a neurology lecture on the latest research on pot. For people whose brains are still developing (people under 25)…pot use is linked to increased rates of personality disorder and worsened psychiatric symptoms including the onset of schizophrenia.

I’m not a anti-pot person. (I don’t mind a little now and again, myself) The research was not suggesting that pot use caused these pathologies…but it did suggest that it was correlated to worsened symptoms and severity of already present or emerging mental illnesses including personality disorders, depression, anxiety, psychosis, etc.

Pot seems to be fairly safe for people over 25 whose brains are done growing…but the growth process of puberty and young adulthood have associated chemical differences that don’t play well with with pot and can aggravate psychological conditions… Do some research and talk to your doctor. The neurologist lecturing the kids at my daughter’s school actually suggested ecstasy would be a safer experimental drug for people under 25. The kids were all pre-med students and bio majors and kinda gasped at his saying this…he was dead serious. (ecstasy is notoriously dangerous for the cardiovascular system). So yeah…pot is not a good choice for her insomnia.

Yes, you’ll want to see those grades. And make sure you see them online or some way that you know they are real. Clever, troubled students can find a way to make believable doctored grade reports that fool the parents (been there / done that … as the fooled parent.)

Well, this is becoming a museum of bad advice - unusual for CC.

If she has ADHD and anxiety and is treated for those conditions and is attending atop 15 school - then she should prepare herself for a challenge. If her best effort at preparation is to stay out late. smoke pot, party, and underperform then the results are predictable. As a parent, tighten the screws to your comfort level.

If she is on medication for ADHD, then she is likely on stimulants. If so, then she should not be smoking pot or partying lest the stimulants are cut off. I don’t buy the notion that she “cannot function” off medication (as a prescriber of those medications). Nevertheless, if that is true, then don’t screw up the lifeline by smoking pot and partying. A good psychiatrist would have little patience for this. Benadryl is not a good medication for insomnia for patients on stimulants who are simultaneously smoking pot, drinking, staying out late, etc. Ambien is worse and should not be given at all (in fairness, maybe briefly at times).

Pot is a terrible idea. There is no arguing with potheads though. Pot is wonderful, a harmless panacea, yet a panacea that fails to produce. I would have not tolerance whatsoever, especially with subsidizing it.

Putting the onus on a therapist is a terrible idea. The onus is on the student and the bill-paying parent has the responsibility of enforcing basic rules of engagement when lending money.

You are paying the bills. You should be seeing grades. If she is struggling, then she should be open to doing whatever is reasonable to succeed. But the excuses should stop. You husband should wake up.

As for addictions, hard to say that she has an addiction. However, those with a family history of addiction have a higher than average risk of addiction themselves. Those with ADHD have a higher than average risk of developing an addiction. Those with ADHD who take stimulants probably have a lower likelihood of developing an addiction than those who don’t take stimulants, but still higher than average. And those who take stimulants who turn out to develop addictions look just like your daughter at this stage. Not a good outcome in the making. So as a parent, I would not take this one silently.

One more thing: there is no such thing as “self-medication.” I hear that specious term all the time. Somehow, people “self-medicate” with meth or heroin or whatever to “feel better.” However, there is not a second grader alive who will tell you that taking these drugs results in “feeling better.” No sentient person takes these drugs to feel better. But drug addicts do. Drug addicts make excuses and enablers accept the excuses.

I’m curious about the name of this neurologist…especially considering this assertion of his is something my HS Pharmacology teacher who also happens to be a graduate of Columbia’s College of Physicians and Surgeons and several MD friends who have been practicing for 10+ years would vehemently disagree with.

Especially the MD friends who have experienced treating too many patients for Ecstacy/MDMA related reactions.

OP, sorry you are going through this. Putting aside any health concerns (anxiety and insomnia), I’m in the “my house, my rules” camp. I’m also all about Tough Love.

Your D should have already secured a summer job. You have every right to set house rules, including curfew, smoking, electronic use, whatever you deem needs restrictions or guidelines.

College is not home, home is not college. She can come and go as she likes when she is away but I like my sleep, especially working two jobs and there is no way I’m staying up and worrying about an 18 year old in the wee hours. I would have a very big problem with my 18 year old drinking on a regular basis, and if I thought she was driving, that would be the last time she’d use my car.

I had an issue with my 17 year old son while in high school. He got the “these are my rules and if you don’t like them, there’s the door”. When he turned 18, he did just that…he left mid-way through senior year and couch surfed. He was out of control while at home but without the comforts (regular meals, laundry, clean and comfortable bed and bath) he learned quickly just how good he had it with the few rules I imposed on him and turned his behavior around.

So, in essence I’d put together my list of rules starting with a full time job (or more, both my kids worked two jobs in the summers, usually around 50 hours/week). Sit down with your D, go over the rules and set out the consequences for breaking them.

My D doesn’t drink or smoke and is a home body so I don’t have the same issues with her. The one thing we keep going around in circles with is she wants a tattoo. I told her I would stop paying for college if she got one. She can do anything she wants once she is on her own but as it stands right now, she relies on my financial help and so I can use that power and I do. Honestly, I have tattoos but the ones I got when I was her age I regret and I don’t want her to have that regret so I’m using my leverage to “spare” her if you will, giving her another couple of years to make a mature decision about a permanent body altering.

Well lots of different ideas here. Just want to chime in one more time to say that in my opinion, your daughter’s single most important ally is you, and the relationship with you may be her single most important source for support and healing. So I personally would avoid being punitive and allow as much autonomy as possible- to continue trust.