<p>Well last night when I mentioned it, he shut me down when I mentioned counseling…but he wasn’t open to much of anything. I do think he will be more receptive to it now that things are looking up for him. Right now he is playing with his younger sisters, and they are so happy and laughing…which isn’t something we’ve seen much of lately. I truly pray we are at a turning point, even though the ‘practical, Type A personality’ in me will struggle with him not wanting the things that ‘I’ think he would want. I just hope he realizes the impracticality of his desires before too long.</p>
<p>or I guess better yet, I should hope is able to succeed with his dreams/desires. We’ll give it a try anyway :)</p>
<p>Well best of luck. It sounds like you are a caring parent who is doing the best you can. I have a feeling this will all work out.</p>
<p>I’d add physical activity and exercise longggg before I’d go to meds.</p>
<p>SodiumFree~thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it :)</p>
<p>mtpaper~I agree that more physical activity will help. He does play on a couple of volleyball teams. He said he is getting on the treadmill tonight. Right now he is watching America’s Funniest Home Videos with his sisters and me, and we are all laughing. Since we got home from school, he hasn’t been on the computer at all. That in and of itself is a huge improvement. It would be great if medication is unnecessary, but I’m not ruling it out by any means.</p>
<p>I’m going to say something that likely won’t be popular with many here–</p>
<p>I think your son and your husband may be right that moving directly to medication and/or some diagnostic effort may be premature. Give your son some time away from school, let him get a job, let him explore his creative interests. If he hasn’t found his footing in 6 months (or whatever time you think appropriate), then that might be a better time to think in those terms.</p>
<p>As for the staying-up-all-night, I just want to add that my son has done this for years off-and-on. It used to drive me absolutely nuts, but I don’t get hooked by it anymore. As long as he’s getting to class or getting to his job, or whatever obligations he has, it’s his business. Which is not to say it still doesn’t bug me when I see he’s been on Facebook at 3:00 am and I know he has a class at 9:00 am… but I just need to back off.</p>
<p>Someone told me that boys in their teens and early 20s often tend to have this sleeping pattern – it’s something biological related to (so I’m told) natural mating cycles. Ha! (Bet you didn’t need to hear that. ;)) Anyway, my son still gets where he’s supposed to go everyday, even if it’s on 4 hours of sleep sometimes. He is not depressed, he’s doing fine (although he could do better with better time management, but that’s just my high-expectations of him!), and he’s living his life.</p>
<p>lol just when I think I know what I’m going to do! I do remember what it was like in college. I lived on precious little sleep, but that (I think) was only because I was working a full time 2nd shift job, going to school full time during the day, and studying most of the night. Of course I didn’t have all the electronic distractions that exist today. It was the beginning of the days of MTV and VCRs lol so that was my only interference. </p>
<p>You know…my parents made parenting look so easy! lol</p>
<p>well…It is good that you are having discussions with your son. But, a few more red flags, I hope my fears are unfounded, but do INSIST upon a full medical/psychological evaluation. If he seems to be functioning well, then of course it’s not needed. But if you thought he was functioning well, why would you post here?</p>
<p>Red flags:
-“When I questioned him about finals week, he blew up at me which he has NEVER in his life done before. Never as a teen has he ever raised his voice or been disrespectful to me.” This is huge. A gigantic change in his behavior towards you. This could be caused by drug use, hypomania, mixed state mood (depression and hypomania combined) or just temporarily acting like a rude kid. The fact that he was apologetic later in the conversation does not ease my worry. Some people with mood disorders can change very quickly, ie, rapid cycling.</p>
<p>-“He graduated from high school two years ago. In that short time 6 of his classmates have passed away from various causes…one was just last week in an auto accident.” Wow, that is incredibly stressful. This kind of stress could trigger a mood episode in someone vulnerable to depression/bipolar. Whether or not the medical/psychological experts rule out a mood disorder, your S could use some support (group therapy, church group, grief counseling, one-on-one counseling) to get through such a difficult circumstance. How close were these friends? Were any of these suicides, drug overdoses, long term illness, sudden illness, violence…? Very stressful, very important to work through.</p>
<p>-“Once again he stayed up all night. He told me that he tried to sleep, but he couldn’t so he got up.” Again? Sorry to tell you, but inability to sleep is rarely a symptom of depression, too much sleep is more likely. Inability to sleep points more towards hypomania, mania, anxiety disorders, almost never depression, especially since it seems to be so consistent. Depressed people usually sleep too much. </p>
<p>-“Right now he is playing with his younger sisters, and they are so happy and laughing…which isn’t something we’ve seen much of lately.” Hopefully, this is good. But we went through this so many times with our S. We’d think, wow, he’s doing so much better today, seems happy, has plans…Then, the next day or hour, all hell would break loose. You see, with mood disorders, the mood goes up and down, so at some point the mood is balanced, just right, not up, not down. Then everything changes.</p>
<p>Don’t be surprised if this “breakthrough” turns out to be something far different than that.
I am not a professional. Believe me, I wish I knew far less than I do about these sorts of troubles. I hope I am totally wrong. Rule it all out by insisting upon a thorough physical and psychological assessment.</p>
<p>FYI, “depression” IS a mood disorder. </p>
<p>Medication and therapy can be a life saver, and I am happy to say that our S is doing great, very successful, full, happy life, self supporting, loving, all the good things we want for our kids. After having gone through a serious hell. We pray it continues.</p>
<p>I’d search his belongings, room and the car he uses for clues like alcohol, illegal drugs, pills, and strange writings in journals. I’d take a close look at his computer, try to get into his email, look at his phone, read texts, facebook, anything and everything to get information to help discover what is going on. How has he been handling money? Any problems there?</p>
<p>I sincerely hope your son continues to laugh with his sister, has a productive year off, and easily finds his way to health and happiness.</p>
<p>Mommyto3, creative types also tend to be night-people. Just something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>My husband just told me he doesn’t think he ever went to sleep before 3am when he was in his 20s. Ha. He also said, he’s thankful he’s well past that phase of life now. ;)</p>
<p>^^^^^She is not saying he’s staying up til 3. She is saying that he is not sleeping at all, staying up all night. That’s very different. I hope my interpretation is wrong, maybe he is getting some sleep. But she said that he “tried to sleep but couldn’t”. I’m definitely a night owl, creative person, but when I want to sleep, I sleep easily. Sounds like this kid can’t.</p>
<p>Well, maybe. Just saying my kids stay up like that (my daughter does too), and they’re fine. Sometimes my son says he decides not to go to sleep because he’ll just have to get up again in a couple hours, so what’s the point?</p>
<p>Yeah, like I said, it could drive me nuts if I let it. </p>
<p>I don’t fall asleep easily, and I’m in my 50s. It’s always been like that for me, and I stay up w-a-y too late. I’ve learned to never take a job that starts before 10:00. ;)</p>
<p>newstart~Thanks for your input. I’ll try to remember all of your concerns and address them. </p>
<p>I know that depression is a mood disorder. I misspoke earlier. S has made comments lately that his dad and I have all the control in his life, and has become increasingly more and more frustrated and came to a head this week because it’s finals. He knows he’s failing most everything. He said he knows how disappointed we must be in him. He hates his classes, etc Last night was the boiling point.</p>
<p>His friends/classmates have died from auto accidents (3), terminal illness (2), and another in a repelling accident. None of these kids were amongst his closest friends, but he was well acquainted with all of them.</p>
<p>Insomnia/difficulty falling asleep is quite often associated with depression, as well as, of course…excessive sleeping. </p>
<p>I do check his facebook. For one, I’m on his friends list, and for another he stays logged in on one of our PCs. (My husband is a systems analyst so we have more computers than I care to admit) My husband is often in his car, and we’ve never noticed any reason for concern. His bedroom is always open and accessible. I will admit that for a time (when he was running with his new group of college friends) I was concerned about the possibility of alcohol. My husband and I don’t drink at all, but I’m not naive to the ways of the college age male. lol Once he broke away from that particular group of friends, I became far less concerned. Money is not a concern. His account is linked to mine, and I check it every day. Nothing of concern there.</p>
<p>S knows I’m the kind of parent who will go through his phone IF things don’t add up. I check it through his usage at verizon online as well. My assistant at school says I’m just like her husband, and I won’t be outdone. 
S knows I will listen, I will TRY to see things from his viewpoint (although this has been lacking on my part as of late) and he knows I love him more than life itself. This is such uncharted waters for me. My friends have always told me how lucky I am…what a good kid he has always been, how responsible he has always been, how he has been like another parent to his twin sisters. I think that he has been so ‘prematurely mature’ it stunted some of the other developmental milestones he needed to go through as a teen. He was 11 when his twin sisters were born, so you can imagine how needed he was…and he has always been there for me. My best friend always told me that he was the only kid she knew that didn’t care to keep 2 car seats in his car in the parking lot of the high school. He wanted siblings so much and we suffered from secondary infertility. So when his sisters were born he was thrilled to be a huge part of everything. Maybe that is yet another piece to this puzzle that seems to be coming together more and more as we continue this thread.</p>
<p>You guys have been great therapy for me, and again…I thank you all so much!</p>
<p>There have been several times he was still up at 5 when I got up. Most times I know (from the lights glow) that he has gone to bed anywhere from 3-4, and then he will sleep until 1 or 2 which of course makes it impossible to go to sleep the next day at a decent hour. There have been days when I got him up early so that he would hopefully be able to fall asleep around 12-1ish. It hasn’t seemed to make a difference.</p>
<p>OP, I know you said he lives at home in your original post. But that does not answer the question of whether he wanted to live on campus, and whether that was a source of conflict between parents/son. Asking because we often see posts on these boards from kids who want to live on campus, but whose parents do not see the point of paying for it (or have cultural objections) and do not allow it. I can see how some of those posters might sink into depression… which is why I am asking.</p>
<p>Oh I see. We talked about him living on campus. He wasn’t interested in it at all then. As of late, he would prefer to not live with us. We told him that if he were exhibiting more self-discipline in his studies that we would consider it. It’s really never been an issue that he has verbalized until recently.</p>
<p>Okay, just thought I would check. And I can see why at this point you are not willing to pay room/board fees (or tuition) if you don’t think his performance will improve. Sigh…</p>
<p>I can so relate to your sightings of room light on under the door! Ha. When my son was living at home (before he left for college), I would see his lights on in the wee hours and I’d holler, “go to sleep!” He’d always say, “okay” – but then he didn’t. In retrospect, there I was, up in the wee hours complaining about him being up in the wee hours. :p</p>
<p>He would also sleep into the afternoon if he didn’t have somewhere he had to be… which of course meant he’d be up all night the next night. I tried to make him change that pattern, his dad did… nothing worked. He still does it, but fortunately for me, he’s away at college so I don’t see it necessarily. (Sometimes I see it, as I said, by seeing when he’s been on Facebook. Last week I was on Facebook at 1:00am, and I see my son posting… in his time zone it was 4:00am! Yikes.)</p>
<p>At 57 years old, I’m getting better, myself, about getting to sleep earlier. Now, I don’t usually stay up past 2:00am, but still do occasionally. ;)</p>
<p>Well that is so unfamiliar to me as it is just after 9 and I am going to bed now! I need my sleep! Lol</p>
<p>Sleep well. :)</p>
<p>Your son being gifted may have everything to do with what you have seen with him, the description you give is very, very common with kids who are gifted and above, and I am speaking from my own experience. The problem with gifted kids is that school often comes too easy, they do great in grade, middle and even high school without really having to work, and then when they hit environments where they have to work, where ‘less gifted’ kids had to learn early the study skills and such to be able to do well, they hit a brick wall, as I did. Add to that the general befuddlement many kids that age have about their lives, and it can be quite, umm, interesting. And yeah, I was called lazy, something very few would ever call me in my professional life after getting out of college…not laziness, it is more like in effect not knowing what to do. </p>
<p>In terms of what to do, throwing him back into the heat of school may not do much, and taking time off may not be a bad thing. One suggestion I have is to find a counsellor or therapist, one who is experienced with issues around education and such, or maybe simply someone to help him figure out what he wants to do and help him focus, a career counsellor or the like. My heart goes out to you, your hubby and S, it isn’t an easy thing to go through, on the other hand, with a bit of help, he probably will end up just fine:)</p>