The irony is they just had a company come in to install shower grab bars, etc. That took months of my nagging them. I think it has a lot to do with how he sees himself as a man - he wants to maintain his car, do home repairs, etc. My mother would never contradict him and tell him not to do something - and she just kept saying how the cabinet door was hanging off the hinge and what else could they do? Such poor decision making on both of their parts.
Bottom line - he is not going to listen to anyone and is going to do exactly what he wants to do. I wish there was a person or agency that I thought he would listen to. I need a 'scared straight" style intervention. It is extraordinarily selfish - everything is going to fall on me, no pun intended.
FWIW, ^^^ the older my mom gets, the more selfish she becomes. Or they may forget they can’t/shouldn’t do something. Rationality is out the window and magical thinking has taken its place. She just hopes she will one day drop dead vs. break a hip or have something else equally painful and debilitating happen to her.
Ah magical thinking - an every day occurrence with my mother. I ven explained the term to her and gave her examples of how she does this - she just laughed.
My MIL had NO impulse control – and she fell all the time because of it. Not a whole lot you can do, though I like the idea of taking away the step stool.
We did get her to quit doing a few particularly stupid things by telling her how rough it would be if she was forced into a nursing home because she hurt herself too badly to live at home.
I hope I will not be that difficult. I really, really hope so.
I have noticed that for my dad, his stubbornness about doing now-riosky things is that it’s all about maintaining some sort of control over his life. He can tell that things are changing and doesn’t like it. Fixing stuff in the house makes him feel younger, useful and in control. I get why he needs to feel that way.
If he expects us to take care of him instead of going to AL, though, he needs to be more careful! He can’t stay in his house if he’s not mobile.
The hardest thing about those who have repeated “near misses”, while proclaiming that “if it’s my time, so be it” is that the near misses can be brutal and lead to a very poor quality of life. That said, families can’t always prevail with a more reasonable plan and care facilities may minimize the likelihood of some falls, but certainly not eliminate all risk.
It can be about control or evidence of both physical and cognitive decline to have an uptick in falls. It is something to consider as the nature of the problem could inform the remedies: for example, those with good cognition and dizziness with position changes could learn to get up more slowly to prevent problems. We found it helpful to understand why our two elders were falling, although it was complicated in both cases. Mini-strokes, spinal stenosis and syncope effected one, while the other had three diseases impacting joints and bones, as well as heart disease.
Best to everyone. Seeing the results of elder’s falls can be poignant and very worrisome. There is lots of interesting reading on elder falls, some helpful with prevention, others correlating falls to their causes and impact on quality of life. On phone, so hard to add links, but Google has many relevant articles.
My MIL had a serious stroke many years ago. FIL always insisted he was her best caregiver even as he approached his 90s, he would not accept an inch more assistance than he was forced to do. About 5 years ago he dropped her & she broke her ankle so badly it was touch and go for months that she might lose her foot. The foot was saved, but her life, which was already requiring significant care and was seriously limited, made a major lurch down that slippery slope, she is much more difficult to transfer, she is basically bed bound & wheelchair bound. I don’t think he has learned anything from it, no mention of responsibility for the fall and break and more importantly, still fighting to retain every tidbit of independence.
The whole thing was brutal and the fallout is a requirement for very expensive in home care, she would not qualify for AL, only SNF now.
My thoughts on a lot of the aging issues go back and forth. But there are some aspects where I can (somewhat) empathize with the elder- just because they’re older and less able doesn’t mean they settle easily and contentedly into the limitations. They can still want to feel able. (And, yeah, that can be a problem, depending on what they take on.). Sometimes, even the way we talk to them about not doing something leaves them feeling diminished. It can help to find them other ways to feel empowered and useful (and that these are their choices.)
My mother is executing the major details of this move on her own. She has covered the major planning details I think she should. (And that control is very meaningful to her.) I think her plan is reasonable, tho not optimal. But that’s how she is. Do I think she will have challenges, once there? Yes. But I did the here-to-AZ run a lot for my grandmother (mostly pleasure trips.) I already checked flights to Tucson and could do it, fast and at a reasonable price. I left it to my brother to talk her into a month delay, to allow more time for packing. It will also allow him time to plan to maybe meet her in AZ. (He’s in S. Cal.)
She will be happy to move and being near family doesn’t matter to her.
Hello all -need some input here. Parents-in-law are in late eighties and pretty frail. Still in own home and still driving despite forgetfulness, other significant health issues, and lots of meds. Adult children encouraging them to move to CCRC. MIL had dizziness spell and spent night in hospital. As much as I know that they need to make their own choices and respect that they want to stay independent, I am struggling with how things are going. My H will now take his third trip to visit them (plane ride plus rental car plus H pays for everything there) in six months and is talking about a major postponement of job search (he is between jobs now) to get them transitioned. I don’t want to be unkind and definitely think family comes first, but at some point in-laws have to consider that their choices affect others. We have been lovingly encouraging them to downsize, even showing them nice places near us, but they are still in a run down house (with high property taxes beyond their budget). H is the only sibling able to assist (for a variety of reasons). I work full time and we still have a kid at home. I am starting to feel angry with them for their choices, angry at H for not pressing harder for change sooner, and fearful that a prolonged visit to them to transition will mean missed opportunities for H here (pretty far along in the job search). Also, their driving is putting everyone on the road, including them, at risk. My preference would be for H to secure a job here and then set a start date as far out as possible and use that time to help parents. I feel like I am being balanced (they do need help and he/we should help, but expecting a very extended stay and spending our retirement on this seems unreasonable). I need a reality check. How can H be a loving and helpful son while setting some reasonable limits? How can I be supportive spouse while also protecting my sanity and my retirement in addition to worrying about H’s well-being?
Hi, @Mahjfan - You have a lot on your plate! No, you are not wrong or selfish for being angry. As was being discussed here just a couple of days ago, elderly parents tend to lose their awareness that their grown children have lives and needs and priorities of their own. As I’ve said to more than one friend, “Elderly parents will eat you alive if you let them.”
It’s about boundaries. The parents won’t set the boundaries; that’s up to you, and you have to be intentional about it. And you have to expect resistance; they won’t like being told No. You and your H need to sit down and make some decisions. Even if you don’t come up with answers to these questions, it’s going to force him to think about what his involvement is costing the two of you, financially and otherwise. How much does he want to put into the monthly budget for parent care, including transportation? (And under NO circumstances should retirement funds be spent on the parents!) How much of his time is he willing to devote to it? How much career opportunity is he willing to sacrifice? If you both don’t at least do some thinking about those questions, the parents will take over your lives, present and future. The only way to survive this is to decide what your limits are, and to stick to them.
Can the siblings be persuaded or guilt-tripped into doing more than they’re doing?
I also have to mention the driving, which is one of my hot buttons. Please impress upon your H that he needs to do whatever he possibly can to get them off the road. Tell him that innocent motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians (including children) people are depending on him.
Everything else can be worked out between you and your in-laws, @Mahjfan, but the driving is non-negotiable. If your in-laws are unsafe drivers, they need to be off the road, and no amount of their complaining about it makes the slightest bit of difference. They do not have the right to endanger other road users by their incapacity. They do not have the right to kill or maim other people for their convenience. Your H should do everything he can, including physically taking away the car keys and removing the cars, to prevent his parents from killing someone.
Thank you for the replies, LasMa and Cardinal. I agree with both of you, esp. about the driving. I took the keys away from my dad and he never forgave me. It was still the right thing to do. H’s sibling cannot help (disability and distance) so it’s all up to us. H has a very hard time saying no to parents or taking away the keys. I don’t want to be the bad guy or get blamed for the situation. It’s going to be a rough road. I need H to set boundaries and to understand that his choices affect us all. I am so grateful for my mom who has downsized herself, moved near us, and has vowed to accept help as needed. So far she is healthy and happy, thank God, but eventually we all need some help. This thread is a blessing.
The sibling(s) with disabilities get a pass, but the sibling(s) who are distant do not. Your H is also distant, judging by the fact the airplane trips are involved.
This might be a little bit persuasive, assuming your in-laws have some money: Have your H tell his siblings that the two of you cannot afford to pay for all of this travel indefinitely, and that unless they step up and start taking over some of the trips, he’ll have to start getting reimbursement from his parents. This will, of course, reduce the estate, which is pretty motivating for some adult kids. Even if they don’t step up, I think it’s quite fair to expect that the parents will help foot the bill for their own care. There is absolutely no reason this should be your burden alone.
Thinking a bit down the road, when the time comes for them to move from their house, I think it’s important for them to relocate to your area.
Majfan- while family is important, so is having circumstances work as well as possible for all involved. Agree with others: dangerous driving is non-negotiable. Your husband could be sparing everyone unimaginable grief by addressing that square on. What happens if they no longer have a car? Can they walk or get rides/taxis to groceries or does eliminating a vehicle necessitate reconsideration of living options?
It is important to remember that like any of us, elders can be in over their heads. It can be hard to know what options exist, have momentum for change and know how many benefits can be reaped by accessing care and minimizing responsibilities. As I said to my parents prior to their AL move (which also involved re-locating close to my family, instead of three hours away), everyone knows what they are giving up, but it is harder to foresee what is to be gained when there is the peace of mind of onsite care and the ease of built-in socializing. Within two days of moving in, my “I love my home and always have” mother stated that if she had known it would be like this she would have done it sooner. This is not the answer for everyone; one size does not fit all. It’s just that in a loving way, listening to worries, while sorting out how to make things better together, can sometimes ease the reluctant to a better situation or allow for help in the house. It is a process; some elders can’t engage in it, others will with support. This is when it is important to be clear about what is possible and realistic for your family. It could yield benefits for all. Many of us find it smoothest to have each member of a couple navigate their own parents directly, conferring with our spouses about what will work. Some of these issues are even more delicate to approach with in-laws.
All the best. Many of us have been exactly where you are. I think considering a move closer to the care giving family members could make things easier when the time comes also, as LasMa suggests.
Just want to add that many elders confuse AL (or IL) with the substandard nursing homes they heard of when they were younger. These are different today.
Did we mention yet the take off on Pharrell Williams’ “Happy” that was made at a senior community in New Zealand? I’m not suggesting all are like this, all the time, but its pretty neat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebD_drWYVaI
Perhaps you could work with your husband and agree to have a professional Geriatric Care Manager do an assessment on your in-laws? http://www.aginglifecare.org/ is one source.
I think you do need to set boundaries, and I say that from not having done that well enough, soon enough. H is an only child, so his mom/dad’s situations were all on us, which made it both harder and easier. In retrospect, I should have had H set some much firmer boundaries with his mom a lot earlier, since some of her decisions cost us a great deal in time and resources, very unnecessarily.
Getting the car keys away from MIL required that she have an aide who was qualified to drive. Cabs were not a practical alternative where she lived.
When we transitioned my parents, I waited for my brother to be on board and together, we intervened and insisted they move. Fortunately, we had already visited CCRCs near me and they found out how nice they are and had the resources to pick one. It was all in all, a 5 year process. Dear community, please don’t wait until they “need to” move.
Mahjfan - Your son should not stop his job search. He needs to tell your parent’s that he cannot help them where they are and give several choices: Move to your community, move to a CCRC in their community, or manage on their own without his help. If they say on their own and are not capable of gathering the resources necessary then they are not competent to be living on their own.
As to the driving, H has agreed to drive with my dad and insist on taking his license if he feels unsafe. My dad still needs to trust me. This may be best to be on the spouses shoulders depending on the relationship.
I don’t think there are many more stubborn than my mother. What finally convinced her was actually us just forcing her and telling her it was 4 vs 1 and I had to pull out all the stops - that we knew it was the best thing for her, that if she didn’t want to do it for herself she needed to do it for us. We had to get mean one second, nice after that, kind the next, loving concern the next, knock down fighting the next. It was ridiculous and she dragged her feet every step of the way. No she didn’t want new friends, she didn’t like old people, the food was terrible, she wanted to just hang out in her pajamas…on and on. When she went on a tour there for an assessment she told every worker there she was being forced against her will and every person she saw, was friends with and everywhere she went accused us of dumping her in an old age home. A beautiful, waterfront high service old age home. We ended up having to have a phone conference because she acted like such a lunatic before she moved in.
What I see now is how great these places are about keeping elders engaged and not lonely! I thought the biggest hurdle would have been the dining room. Now it’s the highlight of her day. She’s now deep into the social scene there.
I swear I want to write myself a letter now to be opened in my old age and just put it in a safe so I remember what this does to the children.
It isn’t fair for the unrealistic wishes of the elder to not do what’s right for them to disrupt everyone else’s life and well being. Boundaries and communication are really the only thing.
@mahjfan, we just went through the driving issue with my widower FIL who still lived in his home 50 miles from us but really couldn’t stay there if he couldn’t drive. He suffers from mild to moderate dementia. See what the procedures are in your state to have the DMV evaluate the driving. Law enforcement reported him to the DMV following a car accident. See if you can anonymously report to the DMV. A doctor will do it, too. It took four months, but the DMV did suspend his license. Now, FIL lives in AL less than 5 mi. from us.
@mahjfan - have you sat down with your husband and chatted about how his parents choices are effecting your family/household? Have you discussed setting bounaries with his parents?
It is not reasonable for him to be expected to come to them for every problem. Together, you two need to decide what you can do and what you can’t do. And then be firm.
I will give you an example of what my DH had to do with his parents. His dad was seriously ailing and the time came when his mom needed help getting him to bed each night. They expected the sons (there are 3) to come (on a rotational basis) and help. Now, my FIL liked a late bed time,so he expected the sons to come at his convenience. This was very inconvenient for hte sons as they have to get up early to go to work. Problem #1.
Then as she needed more help, they needed someone there every night. THis was a sure fire way to hit burnout and the sons quickly reached that point. Problem #2.
Solution: the boys together said, ’ We can not continue to come everynight. You must hire help." Boy did they balk at this but in the end, the caregiver who came was a huge blessing to my in-laws. My MIL is still in touch with this person (he even came to FIL’s funeral). So in the end, it worked out quite well, but a boundary had to be placed and then insisted upon. No I cannot, had to mean No, I cannot.
Until that time, my inlaws were very comfortable asking their sons for help as they didn’t want to hire outside help.As another poster said, elderly parents will eat you alive if you let them. True!