<p>“But I think it is possible that lowering the age for drinking might lessen bingeing.”</p>
<p>Might be true - we don’t have an easy way to test. But we do know that every single northern European country with lower drinking ages have higher (and often much higher) bingeing rates. And we also know that both drinking rates and binge drinking rates among youth are significantly lower than they were in the early 1980s, when the drinking age was lower. </p>
<p>(And DARE was a disaster.)</p>
<p>Used to be huge on drinking, it’s sad looking back on it. My then custodial parent took a very no nonsense position on drug use and firmly believed I did not drink or do drugs because of the actions zie took. Zie would interrogate me every weekend about where I was going. “Give me a call from the parents-- let me talk to them right now actually so I can confirm-- oh and what’s the address-- call me at 11 p.m. and have this parent be next to you and able to talk on the phone.” But it’s not like you can differentiate the voice of a 20+ year old from the voice of a parent, and it’s not hard to feign sober for five seconds. Even if it weren’t easy, where there’s a will… I memorized all of Hamlet (I’m not exaggerating) for the purpose of proving that I was sober when I was not. </p>
<p>With my current custodial parent I don’t drink anymore. I don’t think it’s because I don’t feel a need to “rebel” now, I have never felt that, I’m just no longer improperly dealing with psychological issues thanks to the medical attention this parent has given me.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what I’d do about partying if I were a parent, besides not coming down with an iron fist. If my kid were abusing hard drugs or binge drinking I like to think that I’d be more compassionate and try to help out with the likely psychological problems.</p>
<p>If I drank I would tell my mom. I tell her about my roommates escapades and when we go out. </p>
<p>But I’m a very peculiar person, I love to party, and I’m in the sorority that is known for holding their liquor on campus. But the most I’ll ever have is a few sips of someones drink.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap–How exactly does that save the government money? And why exactly would I want to save the government money?</p>
<p>ginab591,a lot of money is spent on understanding, diagnosis, and treatment of substance abuse and related illnesses and injury. By “kids spent their Saturday night drunk out of their minds”, I assume you have expertise in the category of detecting abuse, and not just use. We could do away with much of the research, evaluation, and attempts at detection if you have a simple way of diagnosing or identifying substance abuse. No need to see the patient, no costly training of clinicians, no police, no breathalyzers, etc… What’s not to like?</p>
<p>Right now, some of that money might not come from the “government”, but if the cost of health care continues to shift , I assume you will one day care about how the government spends, just like the rest of us.</p>
<p>Whenever I read these threads, I think of my parents - who were convinced I didn’t drink. I think this was due more to what they wanted to believe than to the little I told them about my activities.</p>
<p>Oops, my link did not post. Last night I found a really good academic article about abstinent cultures and the drinking patterns that result, but it did not post properly as a link. </p>
<p>Here is a more superficial and general article, just to show that the ideas I posted are actually based on academic research:</p>
<p>[Alcohol</a> Effects and Culture Medical Anthropology](<a href=“http://www.anthropologynet.info/medical/alcohol-effects-and-culture.html]Alcohol”>http://www.anthropologynet.info/medical/alcohol-effects-and-culture.html)</p>
<p>“Abstinent cultures: Alcohol use is prohibited. These tend to have drinking and personal problems that are greater than those found in permissive cultures. The higher rates of alcoholism and problems are a consequence of the lack of social norms and supports for a normal drinking pattern.”</p>
<p>There is a list of attitudes and results at the end of this article, showing the effects of abstinence, pemrissiveness, and ambivalence on drinking habits and culture.</p>
<p>Here is another article that says those from more abstinent groups (not limited to religions, including geographic and ethnic segmentation) are more likely to become drunk, and more likely to become alcoholic.</p>
<p>[Preventing</a> alcohol abuse: alcohol … - Google Books](<a href=“Preventing Alcohol Abuse: Alcohol, Culture, and Control - David J. Hanson - Google Books”>Preventing Alcohol Abuse: Alcohol, Culture, and Control - David J. Hanson - Google Books)</p>
<p>Here is one about sensible drinking messages that encourage sensible use versus abstinence:</p>
<p>[The</a> Antidote to Alcohol Abuse: Sensible Drinking Messages](<a href=“http://www.peele.net/lib/antidote.html]The”>http://www.peele.net/lib/antidote.html)</p>
<p>There are many more. I regret that the first link did not work, and will try to find it again if anyone is interested, when I come back from a 2 day trip.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I wonder what would happen with a beer and wine law? </p>
<p>I’m not saying it is THE answer, just that it might be AN answer to lower the age for beer and wine and keep the hard liquor age at 21.</p>
<p>It seems as if it might help. But, then again, not everything about this particular binge drinking conundrum is logical. </p>
<p>There is less binge drinking in Canada than in the US.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/cas/Documents/Canadian1/CanadaPaper.pdf[/url]”>http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/cas/Documents/Canadian1/CanadaPaper.pdf</a></p>
<p>I wonder if the rate of binge drinking correlates with other negative effects of drinking, such as drunk driving accidents, arrests, hospitalizations, long-term alcoholism, etc. I don’t think it’s self-evident that there would be a direct correlation.</p>
<p>I am in the camp that college kids should sow their oats (but beware of the safety issues - like death from shots). Like Rodney, I know many middle aged people that did not sow their oats when they are younger, regret it and are doing so now at the detriment of families. It is very sad.</p>
<p>So, I am sending my D to school with a full-size flat sheet so she can be semi-covered at toga parties. From my past experience, the twin sheets just aren’t wide enough. </p>
<p>That is my story and I am sticking to it!</p>
<p>[Higher</a> drinking age lowers binge drinking for all except college students | Student Life](<a href=“http://www.studlife.com/news/2009/09/18/binge-drinking-a-bigger-problem-among-college-students/]Higher”>Higher drinking age lowers binge drinking for all except college students - Student Life)</p>
<p>This article is really interesting. It shows, through the numbers, that raising the drinking age lowers binge drinking everywhere but on college campuses…</p>
<p>It is an interesting puzzle, all things considered.</p>
<p>Poet, interesting. I would propose “on-premises” only for 19-21. That should help with binging/supplying alchohol to minors issue.</p>
<p>My experience teaches me that there are enormous differences in drinking (and drug use) patterns among high school and college students. For a long time, my kids attended a famous, high-performing private school with students overwhelmingly from affluent, highly-educated families, and mostly white. Drinking (and marijuana use) was nearly universal. About a third of the parents believed their children didn’t drink, but only about a third of THEM were right. Most of the time, it was pure self-deception.</p>
<p>When they moved to a much larger, much, much more diverse public high school, the relationship of drinking to class and culture became really clear, because there were large groups of kids who really, truly didn’t drink of use drugs at all. These tended to be strivers – high-performing kids from lower middle- or working-class families, often with immigrant parents (or immigrants themselves). It’s not that they necessarily came from abstaining cultures – many, for example, were Russian/Eastern European, and viewed themselves as rebelling against the culture of alcoholism and screwing-up that surrounded them. The same was true for many Black and Hispanic kids from really low-income neighborhoods. For them, drinking or toking was crossing a line that they had no interest in crossing, because they were using that line as the step to get out of circumstances they found intolerable. But the affluent white kids, like mine? Drinking and drug use was still nearly universal, although at levels somewhat below what was prevalent at the private school because they WERE friends with kids who rejected drinking, so not every social gathering could center on that. My son, for example, liked to drink, and was proud of his ability to have fun drinking without getting stupid, but he went through stretches of dating girls who really didn’t drink at all, and so he didn’t drink when he was with them.</p>
<p>Of course my kids drank in college (and afterwards), and not always in anyone’s definition of moderation. But they are both pretty contemptuous of people who don’t know their own limits and who don’t stop before they get sick or pass out. One kid’s relationship with a first-year roommate was wrecked by the roommate’s drinking binges. And both kids drank a lot less as college progressed. They were doing too much, and they became aware that alcohol or marijuana sometimes interfered with getting stuff done. Also, they were spending a lot less time feeling awkward and inhibited, and trying to medicate themselves to overcome that.</p>
<p>I was a little surprised by mini saying that we don’t have data about lowering the drinking age, because I thought we were practically running a controlled experiment with Canada, a culture that is nearly identical to that of the U.S. (or at least of the northern parts of the U.S.), where the drinking age is 18-19, depending.</p>
<p>For those who like to party, here is a link you should read.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1121744-another-campus-death-due-alcohol-poisoning.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1121744-another-campus-death-due-alcohol-poisoning.html</a></p>
<p>A kid in our high school almost died at a friend’s party when parents are not at home. I have no problem if my kids drink in moderation, when they are over 18.</p>
<p>Bingeing among young people is higher in Canada than in the U.S., but we don’t have data about “lowering” the drinking age.</p>
<p>“I wonder if the rate of binge drinking correlates with other negative effects of drinking, such as drunk driving accidents, arrests, hospitalizations, long-term alcoholism, etc. I don’t think it’s self-evident that there would be a direct correlation.”</p>
<p>All of the above. (though, long-term, age of first use is the better indicator.)</p>
<p>Of course we are concerned about behavior that may harm others. Carbonated high-sugar drinks likely kill more people than does alcohol, but only the direct consumer. But there is a bitter moralistic (religious) overtone with alcohol. Sure it adds pleasure to many responsible consumers’ lives. But someone drinking can certainly harm others. What don’t we ban “leisure driving of private cars”. That’s just for selfish pleasure and I bet it kills more than drunk driving does.</p>
<p>"This article is really interesting. It shows, through the numbers, that raising the drinking age lowers binge drinking everywhere but on college campuses…</p>
<p>It is an interesting puzzle, all things considered. "</p>
<p>This makes a lot of sense to me. I can see how a higher drinking age contributes to binge drinking.</p>
<p>First of all, the higher drinking age. while it hasn’t eliminated underrage alcohol use, . increases the incentive for kids to overindulge and here’s why I believe that.</p>
<p>Students are getting their hands on booze several ways - either from older kids who buy for them, from homeless people who buy for them (tell me you couldn’t get a bum to buy booze for you if you paid them?), or by using fake ID’s - all of which require more difficulty, expense and planning than just going to a an on campus pub and ordering a couple of beers while you’re able to do so leisurely and legally.</p>
<p>Since it’s more expensive, costly and difficult, common sense would tell you that on the occasions students do get the opportunity to drink, they’re going to take advantage of the opportunity, in other words, drink more.</p>
<p>I’ve got to believe that the higher drinking age contributes to binge drinking.</p>
<p>Rox - I am relatively sure my D is not a regular partier. I know she has been to parties, I know she has consumed some alcohol…because we discuss things like that, but more often than not, on a weekend evening I can talk to her online relatively early. She gets up on weekend mornings to tackle the masses of work she has to do. She makes great grades and is meeting all expectations we had for her college career. AND she complains constantly about her roommates, who are big partiers. She even points them out to me when we Skype and they are in the background goofing off. I KNOW she does not use drugs because she has seen first-hand how devastating they can be (her brother is a recovering addict). So even though I’m not there, I stay in contact with her closely enough that I feel certain I would know if was a partier.</p>
<p>I have a friend who was like many of you. She was sure her D was not a partier. Hated the taste of alcohol. Never drank if a drink was offered to her at family gatherings. Worked hard as a student. Had always had a job working with young children or the elderly. Loved by all she worked for. Was not very social and could usually be found at home on friday and saturday nights hanging out with family and younger siblings. One evening my friend took her D to the emergency room. Her D thought she was having a heart attack. No heart attack but her D was addicted to cocaine. She worked so hard and poured every penny she made into her addiction. The parents had no clue. My friend has with her D’s permission come out with their families story to help other families. She is trying to get the message out that in our community like JHS’s that kids from educated families can pull the wool over their parents. In our community there is a lot of drug use and it is pretty scary.</p>
<p>my best friend has three lovely children. he is convinced that two of them have never been drunk and the third learned his lesson after a time or two.
He is positive that they have never used drugs. Ages 27, 24,and 17. All good students and the parents are very tolerant and forgiving people.
My child is good friends with the 17 year old. He told me last week that all three of children smoke pot together.
Grades, 3 or 4 sports, all sorts of EC’s, all around great kids. They still are great kids.
I am not sure that some of the most naive parents of all are not CC parents.
Parents with under achieving children look for reasons that their children under achieving.</p>
<p>IMO, the best way to approach smart children on the subject of drugs and alcohol is to explain the consequences.
Drinking to much and doing drugs will effect your GPA.
You cannot study very well with a hangover. Hangovers last more than one day. You may feel better the second day but you are not 100%.
Marijuana use will effect your ability to maintain and recall information. Regular use of pot will take 30 days to completely leave your system once you quit smoking .<br>
You will be running on something less than 100% efficiency (just say 85%). Are you that much smarter than the smartest person in your field that you can afford to give up 15% of your productivity. If you are that smart, do you want to give up 15% of your productivity.
Those individuals who set high goals for themselves will begin to lose self esteem when they realize they are not living up to their fullest potential. They will begin to come down on themselves and get depressed. When you get depressed, you escape by doing more of the drug or alcohol
Other popular drugs such as cocaine and ecstasy will take you down the wrong road more quickly. Your body will become malnourished and dehydrated. You will become quickly addicted to these type drugs. Your mind will not be any where near 100%. You may feel more creative at first and actually have some temporary success. However, it will be very short lived. You will require more of the same to get the same high. It will be difficult to stop even when it is no longer any fun.
All of the drinking, drugs and pot will cloud your judgment and you will lose the ability to make logical and rational decisions.
The effects of drug and alcohol abuse is ever changing. The results of use will not remain constant. Over time it will require more of the same or something new to get the same high.
If you allow it to get this far you have likely given up your dream </p>
<p>The point that can be made to the smart kid who has the ability to look far enough down the road is…“It is just not worth it” </p>
<p>Do not do drugs.
Drink moderately and responsibly</p>