Parents, how many of you are sure your students don't party?

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m thinking this thread is rather self-selecting to those parents who have stories to “prove” that their o-so perfect child isn’t touching drugs or booze.</p>

<p>Regardless, I tend to take issue with my peers, I’m a sophomore in college, who look down on other because they drink, or smoke pot on occasion. Its quite natural developmentally for young people, particularly those living away from home for the first time, to experiment. Just because someone experiments, and maybe unintentionally crosses their limit and (god forbid) throws up doesn’t make that person any less capable of succeeding in life, or excelling academically, and having a high sense of responsibility and morality. How I see it, it is perfectly okay, and probably healthy, for stressed college students to act somewhat irresponsibly from time to time. There is a big difference between having a few too many beers and spending an evening throwing up, and drinking yourself into acute alcohol toxicity, or driving drunk. Just because someone does the first, doesn’t mean they’ll do the latter. The fact that I feel the need to hide the fact I occasionally drink from some of my high-achieving friends regardless of my intellectual performance is saddening. Young people should be growing up tolerant of other’s choices, not discounting people as possible friends because they choose drink. </p>

<p>On another note, I personally think that having the drinking age be 21 encourages binge drinking. When one can’t get something they want on a regular basis (aka alcohol) they tend to consume more if it when they get the chance, instead of just having a glass or two of wine. Secondly, I think a lot of young people smoke pot in part because its far easier for them to get their hands on than alcohol… Not being able to buy beer, doesn’t mean that college students won’t find other ways to get intoxicated.</p>

<p>Well, time to get back to studying…</p>

<p>muddybubbles- theres a guy in my calc class who knows all the material to a T, and does great on all the tests. He does all his studying and homework stoned. Secondly, hangovers don’t last more than 1 day, with enough water and some coffee, you can study the day of a hang over perfectly well…</p>

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<p>Alcohol is a drug – a fairly nasty one, at that (When was the last time you heard of two stoners getting into a knife fight?). Tobacco, coffee and chocolate have also been considered dangerous drugs and banned at one time or another by various societies.</p>

<p>Drugs are also fine in moderation. Yes, some people get addicted to them; others get addicted to alcohol, yet others to video games, where their virtual worlds take over. Some people get addicted to an adrenalin high and move from one dangerous sport or activity to the next. There are plenty of ways to get addicted.</p>

<p>Muddybubbles, I’m sorry your post sounds too much like a DARE lecture. The problem with such blanket condemnation is that it causes one to lose credibility in the eyes of one’s children, who know B.S. when they hear it: all throughout history, some of the brightest minds have experimented with drugs and succeeded quite well, thank you very much.</p>

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<p>Personally I think some drugs are far more benign than alcohol. It all depends on the individual and their consumption habits. However, one small point to consdier or ignore as you see fit- many drugs are still illegal to one extent or another in this country, if that matters to anyone. This may or may not make sense, and it may change in the future, but for the time being it is certainly something to consider.</p>

<p>Edit - Of course I’m not referring to pot, which is pretty much de facto legal as long as you aren’t importing, selling or cultivating large quantities</p>

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<p>Well, DS’s suite for next year, which he chose, is sandwiched between the 'Resident Life AD’s apt and the RA’s suite. Clearly he’s not worried about running into them in an altered state of mind :D.</p>

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<p>Yes, muddybubbles, I’m wondering why you saw the need to say “Do not do drugs” (and actually bold it) and then say to drink moderately and responsibly. Alcohol is a drug. It’s actually more dangerous than the vast majority of illegal drugs. It is as addictive as many of the drugs you mentioned. Unless we’re going with the weak and irrational defense that since it’s legal, it’s okay, I would think that a person who is outright as against drugs as you seem to be would also be against alcohol. I personally believe that either alcohol should be made illegal (I know it’s impossible, but still) or many drugs should be legalized, as the harm they cause to society is extremely small, and would remain so if they were made legal.</p>

<p>Furthermore, there are some people who do very well in school and still can do drugs and drink heavily. Some of the best and brightest students I know are into a wide variety of psychoactive substances. I myself do some drugs and I don’t feel that it affects my schoolwork, I am not addicted, I can and have stopped for long periods of time. Some drugs, like marijuana, LSD, and ecstasy are actually very safe if used safely, which involves many precautions. They are also not addictive, some drugs like LSD you honestly have no desire to do regularly. It is hard to find reliable research on these drugs (and easy to find propaganda studies) but used responsibly they are much safer than alcohol. I feel that I have become a better, happier person since using these substances, and that has stayed with me when I did not use them. I think it is a disservice to everyone to say that using any illegal drug (and advocating to some extent a dangerous legal drug) will have horrible effects, because some people can get real benefit out of them (I’m not talking about meth or heroin here, more like psychedelics).</p>

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<p>“parents who have stories to “prove” that their o-so perfect child isn’t touching drugs or booze.”</p>

<p>Who said anything about perfect kids? Who said not drinking means perfect? I STILL am not seeing parents say they or their kids are “sure”, “superior” "moral " or “perfect”. I’m seeing what I call “projection.”</p>

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<p>I can’t actually figure out why people are trying to tell other people they don’t know if their kids are drinking or doing drugs, or not. There are like 4 or 5 parents on here who have said their kids don’t drink. I mean, this is not particularly statistically unlikely.</p>

<p>I don’t think college students try to “hide” the fact that they have a glass of wine or a beer from their parents. These parents are talking about college kids, not 15 year olds.</p>

<p>But, I suppose that was the ‘point’ of the thread.</p>

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<p>At many colleges, and among certain demographic groups, it is more likely to find total abstainers than it is to find students who simply have a glass of wine or beer. Moderate drinkers are a very, very distinct minority.</p>

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<p>Muddybubbles, I’m sorry your post sounds too much like a DARE lecture. The problem with such blanket condemnations is that it causes one to lose credibility in the eyes of one’s children, who know B.S. when they hear it: all throughout history, some of the brightest minds have experimented with drugs and succeeded quite well, thank you very much</p>

<p>I am not sure what a DARE lecture is. I am telling you the phases you will go through because i have done it. Everything that I am telling you could come to pass. No matter how bright the mind you are referring to in history was at the time, it would have been brighter without the drugs and excessive drinking. </p>

<p>“Do not do drugs” (and actually bold it) and then say to drink moderately and responsibly. Alcohol is a drug. It’s actually more dangerous than the vast majority of illegal drugs. It is as addictive as many of the drugs you mentioned.</p>

<p>I agree. However, when you test positive for marijuana you will not go to med school. If you test positive for ecstasy or cocaine you will not go to med school. If you register on the alcohol meter you will not be penalized by the med school. Therefore, do not do drugs if you want to go to med school</p>

<p>Some of the best and brightest students I know are into a wide variety of psychoactive substances. I myself do some drugs and I don’t feel that it affects my schoolwork, I am not addicted, I can and have stopped for long periods of time. </p>

<p>the drugs are effecting your grades. You just do not want to admit it. You may be doing well enough, but not as well as you could. You know this too. Many addicts stop for weeks at a time.</p>

<p>I personally believe that either alcohol should be made illegal or many drugs should be legalized,</p>

<p>I agree. However, the judge will not debate the issue with you. One sinks your med school hopes and the other does not. It doesn’t matter what you or I think. The law is the law. </p>

<p>They are also not addictive, some drugs like LSD you honestly have no desire to do regularly.</p>

<p>This is not true. The world is full of acid users whose lives are literally shadows of there former selves. LSD (acid) is very destructible as well as unpredictable. You are counting on a unknown chemist to have done things right. Very risky</p>

<p>I think it is a disservice to everyone to say that using any illegal drug (and advocating to some extent a dangerous legal drug) will have horrible effects, because some people can get real benefit out of them (I’m not talking about meth or heroin here, more like psychedelics).</p>

<p>The psychedelics will work for a short while. They are addictive. Soon, it will require more of the same or something new. I know we have many brain cells to spare but these drugs are literally eating them away. Do you want to continue to throw those cells away. Furthermore, these highs can last up to 8 hours. In the 70’s they were called “bad trips” rather than “tripping” and some of them effected people for long periods of time (months)</p>

<p>Your GPA will take the hit for continued use.</p>

<p>If you would like to post me one on one I will be glad to tell you my story.
I have all the credibility necessary to offer some good advice.
I was a product of the 70’s and I have been through much the same as you.
No lecture, just fact. If you think that you can do the drugs and drink excessively without effecting the rest of your academic career, then you are in for a very rude awakening.
The ramifications will come sooner rather than later.
They are already on you, you just don’t realize it. Something is slipping and if you sit still and think long enough you will see it and it will scare you.<br>
PM me and let’s talk. I want judge you. I do not know you. I escaped addiction in my late 20’s. I wish many of you would act quicker. My worst day now is better than my best day then. we will remain anonymous. good luck</p>

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<p>Not necessarily from what I and my older co-workers saw on our respective college campuses. </p>

<p>Some of the highest GPA holders at my undergrad and high GPA STEM major HS classmates at other elite colleges/universities(i.e. CMU, Cornell, etc) were regular stoners. </p>

<p>My older co-workers remembered fellow Engineering majors who partied and drank like fish who still managed to graduate with 4.0 GPAs and embarked on long successful engineering/managerial careers. </p>

<p>In short, this depends on the individual…though the odds are such that most won’t be able to repeat their academic feats…whether sober or not.</p>

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<p>You can also be banned from jobs (e.g. with the federal government & some others that may require security clearances) if you have any “illegal” drugs in your system when you are tested or IF you have a polygraph test and are asked about it & it shows you are lying.</p>

<p>Med school, law school, pharmacy school, and quite a number of other fields may ban you from being able to enter IF you have a history of any of these drugs. It doesn’t really matter if folks agree or disagree with these consequences–they exist for many, fair or not fair.</p>

<p>Hope all is well with the choices everyone & their kids make!</p>

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<p>**Some of the highest GPA holders at my undergrad and high GPA STEM major HS classmates at other elite colleges/universities(i.e. CMU, Cornell, etc) were regular stoners.</p>

<p>My older co-workers remembered fellow Engineering majors who partied and drank like fish who still managed to graduate with 4.0 GPAs and embarked on long successful engineering/managerial careers. **</p>

<p>The drugs and excessive drinking will bring anyone’s GPA and standardized test scores down. There are some very smart people out there who achieve some fantastic grades while drugging and drinking. However, their scores would have been higher had they been sober. How many of you want to give up some of your advantage to others who remain clean and sober. </p>

<p>It is not worth it</p>

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<p>I personally am okay with my grades. I do not have grad school plans at the moment, and I would never go to med school. I am not really interested in grad school nor can I afford it. Could my grades be better? Yes (though they are above average), but I am okay with the trades I have made and the knowledge I have gained in other ways. </p>

<p>I have stopped for many months to a year and felt no cravings. No drug literally eats away at brain cells, certainly not psychedelics. This is a myth. It is easy to search the web for this. There is a lot of propaganda out there, and hard to sift through what is true and what is not, but using the substances moderately have minimal effects, and if there are some, again I am okay with that trade-off. I don’t know how you can say psychedelics are addictive. After using some, most people don’t want to do it for a while. I certainly don’t. I am aware that bad trips exist, I have had some, but they can also teach you much about yourself. I use no drugs without being extremely aware of their effects and after much research. There is a such thing as responsible drug use, and that involves not using if one will be tested (though I’ve never heard of grad schools testing for drugs, I actually know many grad students who use lots of drugs, but that’s another matter).</p>

<p>The fact of the matter, the important thing, is that a portion of the population uses drugs. This is not limited to lazy people in dead-end jobs, many people with wonderful careers use them as well. People from every facet of society use them. Many people can use drugs without being addicted, especially since many drugs are not addictive. Many important scientific achievements were even made under the influence of drugs. As others have said, many smart people can keep 4.0’s and use drugs. Some really cannot obviously. It varies between individuals so much.</p>

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<p>I also think this is derailing the thread. Or maybe it was already derailed. So, I’m done with this.</p>

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<p>I had two roommates who definitely did some illegal drugs in college and both went through med schools and are now surgeons so the idea that is precludes becoming a doctor is silly. Even most PDs will hire people with some past drug use so long as it’s well in the past. Did Bill Clinton or W have to pass a security screening??</p>

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<p>I thinks it is a very naive idea that “my child doesn’t drink because s/he ‘hates’ the taste of alcohol”.</p>

<p>There is no such ‘taste’. If they tried beer or wine and didn’t like it, wait until they find something they do like, whether its a rum and coke or fruit juice based cocktail, or some liqueur like cointreau or baileys.</p>

<p>The hater could be drunk in pretty short order then …</p>

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<p>For all the parents who stated that they know their children do not drink or do drugs because they told them that they do not partake, I have three words for you - sometimes teenagers lie!</p>

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<p>Teenagers not only lie sometimes, ALL teenagers lie some of the time. It is universal, and lacking a certain amount of lying in the teen years would actually indicate future social issues as an adult.</p>

<p>But, past a certain point, it’s really not our business… Adults have to make thier own choices, and, frankly, if 18 year olds are going to be adults? Then we must treat them that way. If they are not going to be adults? You have to have a whole set of rules in place in colleges which resemble the rules in boarding schools. AND, we need to figure out whether our 18 year olds are adults or not. Because we cannot hold adults responsible for the behavior of other adults, particularly if the “responsible” adults are not even allowed access to medical and legal and psychological records.</p>

<p>It’s ridiculous. As usual.</p>

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<p>HImom,</p>

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<p>This largely depends on the agency, the job, and the type of clearance. However, outside of the DEA, no agency I know has a zero tolerance policy for past marijuana usage (usually about a year?). Even the FBI has a wishy washy “no more than fifteen times” policy. Hell, when I was interviewing for the CIA, the guy who was talking to people about clearances said that they were more worried about credit history than the occasional drug use. If anything, some familiarity with “light drugs” was seen as potentially favorable for agents.</p>

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<p>If med schools are banning people for drug use, then I have no idea how about half of my med student/doctor friends are where they are today. Easily half of my wife’s med school class has at least tried pot.</p>

<p>muddybubbles,</p>

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<p>What med schools are drug testing?! My wife is a med student, and has never been tested. My med student/doctor friends were never tested.</p>

<p>One may argue that drugs will dull the mind, but they certainly do not preclude you from med school.</p>

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<p>All,</p>

<p>Some perspective for both the parents and the students.</p>

<p>I’m a 27-year-old professional with a degree from UCLA (not that everyone didn’t know this…) and a degree from UCSD. I’m quite professionally, socially, and emotionally successful. I’m happily married, and have a great family and social circle. </p>

<p>All in all, I’m only being somewhat self-serving when I say that I’m what most parents would want their child to be.</p>

<p>Here’s the honest-to-goodness truth: I drank before I was 21. Not much, to be honest, but some. I even tried marijuana. And I’ll be honest: I enjoyed both. All this claptrap about it “not being fun?” What a load of rubbish. People generally don’t do things if they’re not fun.</p>

<p>Here’s more truth: I lied to my family as a teenager. Not much, but some. Not really about drinking (I was honest about that), but about other things. </p>

<p>Another little fact: many of my most successful friends (doctors, lawyers, PhDs, bankers, etc.) did at least some drugs in high school and college. Nearly all of them drank before they were 21. They are all very successful people, and I am proud to be associated with them.</p>

<p>Parents, I’m not so far removed from my mother’s home that I don’t remember what it was like. The fact is, even though I have a generally good and open relationship with my family, I did occasionally lie to her. Sometimes, it was privacy concerns. Other times, it was that I was embarrassed about something. But I did lie. </p>

<p>The fact is, outside of being offered a commission as an officer and maybe the DEA, I can’t think of a single field where light marijuana use will end things today. Even the military will ignore marijuana use if they really need or want you at the time. </p>

<p>Telling kids that drugs are just bad, alcohol is just bad, everything that adults have done and still sometimes do is just bad is absurdly stupid. It mystifies and in many ways glorifies it all. It makes it even more desirable. The best thing my family did was to gradually expose me to alcohol as a teenager (mostly at seders) and to teach me how to drink properly. </p>

<p>The truth is that being able to drink like an adult is professionally important in a lot of situations, and while abstaining isn’t going to hold you back, showing that you can have a drink at an after-work function helps make you “one of the group.” I get that many are teetotalers for good reason, but foisting that upon young people just because is not going to help them develop responsible attitudes toward the stuff. </p>

<p>If there’s anything I’d say to college students, it’s: drink occasionally, not too much, and only the good stuff. Don’t waste money on bad alcohol, because the good stuff is so much more enjoyable anyway.</p>