<p>I too wonder if she spoke to anyone? as hasn’t been exactly straight forward with you, i would bet that either she didn’t talk to anyone or she did and they did tell her she was in trouble</p>
<p>I can understand the need to salvage the sum,er with classes to get the credits, but to just repeat the same classes in hope for a different outcome…well…</p>
<p>At this point how she got to this point is not as important as admitting to herself she is prob not an engineer. I bet if she did one of those tests where they askmquestioms and come up with possible careers engineering wouldn’t be in the top ten.
Before I shelled out anymore money I would insist on a meeting with her advisor that d must set up, show you she set up and share with you emails she sent to advisor laying it all on the table. Yes she is a grownup but she is potentially wasting 9000 to prove a point. And her partofthe contract to get summer school funded is to have a conversation with her advisor and someone in the engineering department. And if she doesn’t get the credits because she insists on this track of engineering, there will not be much you can do. And it’s not out of meanness. It’s college admissions reality.</p>
<p>@EPTR ~ My daughter attended a community college about 20 miles from our house. She attended every day, took on a full course load and it STILL took her this long to be able to get enough transfer credits to enter college as a transfer student. Now, all her classes are upper division and not offered at the CC. This afternoon, I told her that she was to enroll in classes that she found easy and not to enroll in math or engineering classes. This way, she can achieve the 16 units she needs to stay at the school, receive her grant and then change the major. I believe this to be the best course and everything will hinge on next week’s math finals.</p>
<p>@lmkh70 ~ Yes, this is about money. I am being told that I have to part with $9000 that I didn’t have to part with. My daughter is an adult as certain people keep pointing out. In that case, we will talk money like adults. My daughter didn’t pass her classes and now I have to part with a large sum of money to ensure that I don’t have a kid living permanently in the basement. I think it’s OK to talk money and to lay it out on the line. I love my daughter but we need to have this conversation. I am not treating her like a princess! No one pushed her into engineering. She surprised us all by selecting engineering as a major. I just thought huh? I am willing to keep paying as long as I see results. And yes, she has always had help in paying her bills because she was always a student. She worked too mind you. She is not a lazy loafer. </p>
<p>@momofthreeboys ~ I agree 100%. This is the plan.</p>
<p>@GladGradDad ~ I too am beginning to wonder whether or not she ever really talked to an advisor. Her GPA is rapidly approaching 2.0 and anything under that is going to be a huge problem for the college.</p>
<p>@menloparkmom ~ My daughter has 4 AA degrees from CC. The classes that she needs to take now are all upper division. You are right. She is going to have to produce results very soon because I am going to be sore if I lose another $9000 and end up with a kid living in the basement.</p>
<p>@Seahorsesrock ~ We agreed this afternoon that she is to take ‘easy’ classes over the summer. I want to see credits on her record not more failed classes! I think she once had a career test and you are correct ~ engineer didn’t show up as an option. My plan is for her to change her major. I think it’s absolutely necessary at this point. I just have to get her to see it but I think that will happen next week when she fails her 2 math classes. She is failing them both at this point.</p>
<p>I may sound harsh but I’m just being realistic. Also thanks again to everyone for responding to my request for help. I have gained a lot of tips to change this situation and I’m very grateful.</p>
<p>Are the units at XYZ same as credit hours? If that’s the case, 16 credit hours in the summer are just tough if they are math, science or engineering. Even that many hours of humanity it’s still tough.</p>
<p>“She is a long way from home right now but we make it work. It’s a great school. As for point number 3 above, I do not agree with you. $9000 is a lot of money for me and I am feeling as though I’ve been taken advantage of if you want the truth. I knew right from jump that engineering was the wrong choice and I told my daughter that if she was not able to handle the classes, she would have to rethink her choice of major. We are now at that point but she STILL insists on stressing herself out in taking these engineering classes”.</p>
<p>Two suggestions for you- one of which you probably learned during marriage counseling.</p>
<p>1- What do you think your D is telling her best friend or confidante about this situation? What can you learn by looking at the dialogue going on right now from her perspective?</p>
<p>2- I agree that 9K is a lot of money. My point was that if you don’t have the money to spend on her summer school (and it sounds like you don’t- raiding retirement is never a good option unless its for a liver transplant) the time to tell her that you couldn’t afford it was when the subject came up-- not now, when she thinks you’ve agreed to her plan of somehow passing these two math classes and then doing summer school. So a month ago or two months ago or last week whenever summer school entered the picture, you had an opportunity to say with great sincerity, “honey, that’s not in the cards. You need to go back to your adviser and figure out plan B”. To have agreed to the plan- and now to be second guessing it, feeling like a chump, feeling like she’s manipulating you- isn’t a very clear way to communicate with her, and certainly isn’t getting YOU what you want, which is for her to pass her courses and get a degree.</p>
<p>In my experience in dealing with late or post adolescents- it is easy to get caught up in brinksmanship. You say one thing, they disagree, everyone digs in, and before you know it, rational thought is out the window. You are now convinced that she’s taking advantage of you, she is probably convinced that the only parent who has any interest in her education (you) thinks she’s a dope who can’t keep up with her friends at her top and competitive college, and nobody is seeing this clearly.</p>
<p>"My daughter has 4 AA degrees from CC. "
4? whoa! In what areas? Are any of them in the STEM fields? Did she decide to major in Engineering in order to justify [ and eventually pay back] the $$ it is costing you to support her through 4 AA degrees and now send her there? It sounds like she has reached too high, perhaps for the wrong reasons.</p>
<p>Why is she taking two math classes? She may be smart enough for engineering, but her previous academic life has left her badly prepared? That would be my guess. If xyz is a fancy high fal-uting school everyone else probably did AP everything in high school.</p>
<p>I’m guessing she learned along the way that starting engineering salary were $10-20,000 higher than other degrees, but OP if she tosses that at you…she’s 23 and she’ll be at least 25 before she hits the career job track full time. Presumably by that time she’s had jobs and experiences that 21 year olds don’t have. I would tell her to think back over her jobs and focus on the one she liked best…what degree would “enhance” that on her resume. If it was a retail job, well that industry can be very kind to college grads and tend to move them along very quickly regardless of the degree…and I’m just tossing out that example because it’s an industry i’m familiar with. We have a friend whose son took a job at the airport running cars for Hertz (with a college degree). 3 month later he was in an office, 3 months after that he was in a district office and 3 months after that he was in the corporate office and found a career…12 months after many of his college grads turned their noses up at the thought of an hourly job. Was he exceptional…I don’t really think so, I think he was smart and had his head screwed on straight. Young people often have strange ideas about how to get a career.</p>
<p>Joe - I am going to step away from the numerous and serious academic concerns and bring up the tears and the concern that your daughter’s roommate shared. For a roommate to call home is significant indeed. Your daughter seems to be very overwhelmed and is heading into exams in very precarious shape - both academically and emotional. Is it possible for you or her mother to see her directly and assess how well she is. Perhaps she needs a medical leave at this point. Perhaps a meeting with you and the deans could then be arranged to discuss progress going forward. If she needs a medical leave, that could get you some time to sort things through. The dean might well recommend a semester away to reassess everything and perhaps that could happen without hurting her grant.
I wish you and your daughter the very best and please keep us posted.</p>
<p>Can I first just say that I think you are being a great, supportive, loving dad? </p>
<p>I think its time for a face-to-face and find someone, anyone, to be an objective mediator. She is not cut out for engineering… So what? She’s good at something! I think she also probably needs a lot of “you’re gonna be fine and I love you no matter what” in the discussion.</p>
<p>I think she is afraid. I think that’s normal. It’s not worth over analyzing on CC.</p>
<p>The OP is being a lot more generous than most individuals on both sides of my family or the parents of floundering/failing undergrads. </p>
<p>Most would not only have had a talk, but strongly emphasized to the floundering/failing student that if they don’t present a plan for improvement which produces results within a semester, the family college money will be cut and they’ll have to get a job, join volunteer organizations like the Peace Corps if family finances support it, or join the military to increase their maturity/experience with the “real world”. </p>
<p>Knew several older colleagues and post-undergrad university classmates who floundered/flunked out of college and worked service jobs/joined the military for several years after their parents cut off the college funds. All of them eventually ended up realizing that they weren’t taking their education seriously enough and upon returning to the campus…redoubled their efforts and became model students.</p>
<p>OP, sorry if you’ve said and I missed it, but perhaps it would help if you told us what classes she is failing or in danger of failing (and what are these math classes?). Some of us are engineers/mathematicians/physicists (or all 3 :)) and it would give us a better glimpse of her situation if we knew the specifics. Also what are the 4 AA degrees in, specifically?</p>
<p>@jvtDad ~ I believe that units and credits are the same thing … she needs to have a certain number of units at the end of the school year to qualify for grant money the following year. It’s going to be a lot of work but it’s either that or drop out because we cannot afford the school without the grant.</p>
<p>@blossom ~ When the realization dawned on me that I was going to have to pay for summer school, to tell you the truth I was shocked. I hadn’t realized that her dropping so many classes had affected her grant eligibility. I have been allowing my daughter to take control of her classes and her education. After all, she’s 23 right? Well no more. From this point forward, I am going to want to know everything about everything. There is no way that she is coming out of that school now without a degree of some kind. My daughter is a very insecure person at times. I am sure that her roomies and friends have no idea just how precarious her position is right now. They do know, of course, that she is very stressed and very upset about her performance in her math classes and the fact that she is under pressure but I set her up this afternoon with a tutor who will do the best they can in the short space of time available. The finals are next week. The subject of the $9000 came up only a couple of days ago. I was completely unprepared for it and have been knocked off balance since. I told her at the time that I didn’t have the money but she knows I do. Believe me, I am at the end of my rope on this one. If she fails finals next week and then fails summer school as well, the whole situation will be over because she will have to leave the college. BUT I will have a clear conscience that I tried to give her what the other kids have. I will exhaust all possibilities but lately I have been questioning whether or not college is even for her at all. The problem is, I don’t have that much time to make a clear decision. I do agree that there’s a lot of competition at this college and that everyone is fronting for everyone else. You make a good point.</p>
<p>@menloparkmom ~ Yes, her AAs are all in the STEM fields. I think she has reached too high as well but it is do or die now. I have collected a lot of good suggestions from this thread. Top of the list is changing major and the time to do that will be next week if she fails her math classes. Things WILL change. I see very clearly, thanks to the comments here, that engineering is not going to work for my daughter.</p>
<p>@switters ~ Yes you are probably right. She is out of her league.</p>
<p>@momofthreeboys ~ Yes, it has been all about the high salary and the prestige. It has been all about showboating for the extended family and posting other stuff on facebook. I am beginning to realize that my daughter has painted herself into a corner. She is going to lose face when people realize that she is no longer an engineering major because they were all so impressed that she’d made it to a top school. I agree with you. There are other careers out there.</p>
<p>@siemom ~ Thanks for your concern. I am keeping a very close eye on her. We have talked several times today and I told her my plans in a non judgmental and kind manner. I let her know that I wasn’t mad but that she couldn’t expect me to keep pouring money into a school that isn’t working for her right now. I told her that if she fails her classes next week, things are going to change and that is the end of it. Someone has to start somewhere with broaching the subject of a change in major and I did it.</p>
<p>@Walker1194 ~ I was at my wits end this morning. I wanted to come here and ask some smart people what they thought about my situation and I have been fortunate in that the answers I have received have been thoughtful and on target. I know now what I have to do. I know now that dropping out of college isn’t going to be the end of the world. I know that daughter has to be realistic about her abilities and that stroking her ego is the worst thing we can do at this point.</p>
<p>@cobrat ~ We talked about the military as an option but I really don’t think that would work for her.</p>
<p>Wow. As the mother of an engineering major who just finished his freshman year, Wow sums it up. How on earth did she transfer in to this “amazing college” needing to take all upper level courses, yet manage to not take them? My son is at a top-ten ranked engineering college, and slacking off is just not tolerated, not without falling into academic probation. Is it possible this amazing school is not so amazing in engineering? I can not imagine this lack of advising/guidance going on at a top engineering school. Four degrees from community college? You say you do not have a lot of money, and I can see why. You have been supporting your daughter’s poor education habits. And you continue to do so, which only harms both of you.</p>
<p>I would immediately link your financial support to her academic performance. Period. She gets and A, you pay 100%; B, you pay 80%; you get the idea. No money from daddy for a C or lower. I bet that will get her study habits in line and on track with a major that she can actually handle.</p>
<p>Finally, I would NEVER withdrawal money early from a retirement plan to pay for college. That $9,000 will become something like $13,000+ after you pay early withdrawal penalties and income tax on it. Find another way.</p>
<p>Engineering is impossible without an aptitude, but so is English. I’ve seen engineering majors who couldn’t pass a basic English composition class.</p>
<p>Engineers may start with higher salaries, but there isn’t always the same job growth.</p>
<p>Engineering is a great field, but when we use phrases like this, we just fuel the kind of misguided ideas that this young woman has and some parents too.</p>
<p>There are many majors that lead to living wages.</p>
<p>My S found Ancient Greek harder than his physics courses in college, but he wanted to read Homer. He also found upper level Music Theory harder than math or physics.</p>
<p>Have the AA degrees not prepared her for any sort of work? At our community college one could come out with degrees in Dental Hygiene, Business Tech, Computer Support Tech, Lab Tech, Nursing, and so forth.</p>
<p>You say she could not transfer into another school of this caliber. That’s really ok. It may be hard psychologically to let go of this “dream” school, but I think she would be so much better off at another school, with another major.</p>
<p>^^ mythmom. Concur without reservation. DH was a biochem major. I was in fine arts. I thought my major was so much harder than his. He got all As. So did I. Nuff said.</p>
<p>Rangerjoe, if you step over to the engineering forum you will find that students who really want to be engineers but don’t have the ability to pass the classes gear down and become engineering techs or CAD techs. Those are students who really want to be engineers but can’t make it. </p>
<p>So really it is about getting to the “What will you do if you can’t pass engineering?” </p>
<p>In your case, you don’t think she can pass and you don’t want to spend another $9K to find out.</p>
<p>Hire a career counselor (find a good one first) to help your daughter figure out what she wants to really be. She can’t give up on engineering right now because then she will have nothing. She needs to move to Plan B which may not be staying at XYZ univ. </p>
<p>If this was a financial investment in stock in a company that was going down, you would not throw more money in to save them if you didn’t think they could survive.</p>
<p>I was not the strongest student either. But my parents stuck with me and I got my degree in Mathematics. Even if she isn’t doing well at first does not mean she can’t do it. Whether you want to pay for it is another question.</p>
<p>Engineering is HARD. Even students with great AP/IB prep, strong math/physics aptitude, good study skills, and high SAT scores often switch out of Engineering. Many of their stories are on these CC threads. </p>
<p>From skimming this thread, it appears that OP’s D is in over her head. Not sure the best answer. I can say that my D didn’t fit well into Engineering but now enjoys her Econ major. There are plenty of liberal arts classes, but a bit of a technical slant too. Here’s to hoping that OP’s family finds a way to get through this tough and stressful time… we did ;)</p>
<p>Rangerjoe - Just one man’s opinion, but I believe your thinking is sound. Wrong major, wrong school. My inclination would be to cut it off for now, and I also wouldn’t put up the $9000 for summer classes - that’s throwing good money after bad. Your D needs to hit the big reset button, away from this school. She will not be locked out of attending college, and that’s not the most important thing right now anyway. She needs to get her mind right.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, we’ve had this same conversation with our own kids many times during HS, and even earlier. They’ve always understood that their successes and failures have consequences, and that won’t change in college - especially with the incredible cost. Your D needs to put herself in a position that you can support.</p>