<p>n/m, I'd rather not go into all this.</p>
<p>I don't blame you. If I were a student at an Ivy League college, I don't think I would admit that fraternities on campus engage in "elephant walk" hazing rituals, either. In addition to being a violation of college rules, national fraternity anti-hazing policy, and perhaps state law, such sexual abuse hazing activities aren't exactly the epitome of "intellectual" behavior.</p>
<p>I'd keep it secret.</p>
<p>I would keep it secret too...I want planning on saying anything about it. But you're right...lets end the topic</p>
<p>spn, what school do you go to?</p>
<p>cornell univ.</p>
<p>oh, cool. you guys have a good hockey team. ;)</p>
<p>yeah...its pretty good...it is the only sport that people actually go and watch</p>
<p>I am guessing you are at Dartmouth, based on your animal house reference and hanover in your profile</p>
<p>same at dmouth...watching our football team makes me cringe. hockey is more exciting anyway.</p>
<p>when do they do rush for freshman at dartmouth?</p>
<p>they don't. you rush sophomore year. I just attend the parties/have friends in frats and sororities, and objected to a lot of judgements being made on here which I felt were unfair. I'm not actually Greek myself, but I'm considering rushing next year. Haven't decided yet.</p>
<p>You two guys take the cake. First you tell me that I am being unfair in implying "negative connotations" about fraternities. But, then you clam up about "elephant walk" sexual hazing rituals in the frats at Dartmouth and Cornell. </p>
<p>If that is the standard at two of the most prestigious universities in the United States, where you have to be super smart to even get in, imagine what the fraternities at lesser schools must be like.</p>
<p>Let's not bury our heads in the sand and limit the discussion to "leadership" and "outstanding citizenship" and "lifelong bonds".</p>
<p>FYI...no one does the elephant walk or anything similar...who would acually want to watch that?</p>
<p>Well, I'm curious - what DO pledges have to do during pledge activities at your fraternity Spn? Dmar? Any others? Parents of Greeks? Are pledges fully told up front what they will be asked to do? If they refuse, for whatever reason, to go along with a certain activity, are they still accepted into the fraternity? Details, please.</p>
<p>I am not going to go into specific events, because we are not supposed to talk about it, but I can let you know some general stuff. Every pledging event is already determined and scheduled before the semester of pledging begins. We lay ground rules for pledges, but they do not know about each event or activity. Each event has a specific purpose to bring the pledges closer together, otherwise we would not do it. We like these pledges, which is why they were given bids and we want them to feel close to each other at the end of the process, and all events try to acheive that. If a pledge does not want to do something, then there is usually a genuine concern coming from him, and we do respect that. In my house there was a specific brother that dealt with all these types of issues. I, for one, had some issues during pledging and struggled through the process, but the brothers helped me along an gave me some slack and support where I needed it. Activities are NOT centered around sexual things, we have no desire to watch or see people take part in any of that. Pledging was the best time of my life, that I would never want to have again. Looking back on the whole experience, it was not that bad at all even though I thought it was when I was going through it.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I am not going to go into specific events, because we are not supposed to talk about it...</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Oh, I see.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Pledging was the best time of my life, that I would never want to have again. Looking back on the whole experience, it was not that bad at all even though I thought it was when I was going through it.</p> </blockquote>
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<p>So would you put your fraternity hazing experience at an Ivy League college in the PRO or the CON category?</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I am not going to go into specific events, because we are not supposed to talk about it...</p> </blockquote>
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<p>This is what concerns me. Why the secrecy? How are pledges supposed to make a logical choice between fraternities if their initiation and pledge activites are closeted in silence and secrecy? Why not tell pledges upfront what is involved so they can make an informed decision about whether to participate?</p>
<p>"-Open question: just out of curiosity, what do people think hazing is? What do you think goes on when pledges are hazed?"</p>
<p>Oh, I think that the hazing ceremony starts with a five-course meal served on white linens. After the exquisite dinner, the pledges present a couple of poems to the audience composed of current members and faculty. The pledges are judged on diction, elocution, and delivery. </p>
<p>What do I know about hazing parties? Absolutely nothing, since the secrecy appaars to be wel guarded. </p>
<p>Now, what do some people report as taking place: </p>
<p>*** Three Phi Beta Sigma members were accused of severely beating a pledge with a paddle at the St. John's University fraternity. Prosecutors contended the defendants beat Brian Chambers so severely with a wooden paddle that he was hospitalized for two weeks. The defendant were acquitted after testifiying during a month-long trial that they were elsewhere when Chambers, then of Bay Ridge, was beaten. They also said Chambers was too early in his initiation process to be struck.</p>
<p>*** Louisiana Tech University is investigating a hazing accusation in which a pledge was allegedly forced to eat a hamburger that had chewing tobacco sprinkled on top.</p>
<p>*** Authorities say Delta Chi pledges were made to run and roll in the mud in the dark near a 100-foot drop in the Wildcat Ridge Wildlife Management Area. Police say someone could have easily fallen
The initiation took place Tuesday night into Wednesday.</p>
<p>More gems can be found at <a href="http://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=30%5B/url%5D">http://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=30</a></p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Those incidents that you just mentioned are bad and should not have happened, these types of occurances do not produce closer bonds, they just hurt people. Most houses are not about that. Never during the process was I ever physically hurt or put in danger. As far as making infomred decisions, I knew what houses were more intense than others, just based on what I had heard on campus. Some do not even have pledge periods, so if someone is looking for something like that they can join one of those houses. Stuff is secret because that is tradition and that is part of being in a house, and I never understood it until I joined. I can see why people do not like frats because of the secrecy.</p>
<p>I personally find it very easy for one to sit on a high horse and criticize something one has only heard of through anecdotes, negative news media stories, and hollywood movies.
Firstly, the consumption alcohol, no matter how much you or the rest of MADD would love to believe, is not a substance which, by its very presence, automatically cancels out every positive action or benefit of a group. Those who believe that one stereotyped negative entirely cancels out any conceived positive has already formed and ingrained their opinion on the greek system and does not want this stereotype to change.
Yes it is tragic that some organizations have to ruin it for the rest of us by putting pledges in situations where they have a real and imminent risk of death. Except don't call them greeks, call them morons. Last year my organization had zero lawsuits. None. This is every chapter in the national organization. To the dad who cited insurance rates as some kind of strike against fraternities, rates have gone up in spite of lowered risk due to things like the abundance of insurance claims after 9/11, the increased claims in the medical field, etc. Insurance is its own mess, their rates have little to do with greeks except that most greeks are forced to pay whatever amount is imposed on them.
Drinking at fraternities happens, but it also happens elsewhere. Blaming the greeks on a more "widespread" problem is unfair, but very easy to do. I feel the problem lies more with alcohol being made the forbidden fruit, encouraging rebellious teens to binge drink like crazy while they still can. If people just came out and preached responsible moderate drinking for people of a broader age range, problems like a kid drinking a whole fifth of scotch might not happen. I'm a fan of good scotch, but only one shot at a time, and normally one is enough.
Hazing has been demonized by many groups, most of them having a skewed view of what hazing actually entails. People somehow think that hazing is merely the indiscriminate beating and degrading of pledges while simultaneously forcing them to drink to their deaths. If this were the case, there would be no greeks. Think about it. If hazing were as bad as anti-greeks would like to perceive, there would be no greeks. When I was a kid, my mom would ask me to do the dishes. I was the kid, so I had to put in my time and do my chores. This is fine, but apparently its hazing and against the law if you make a pledge do dishes. The definition of hazing is made very broad so that its prevalence can be overstated and examples of the handful of idiotic incidents some chapters create can be given. Often pledges of fraternities don't even have the life skills to survive. A pledge brother of mine was forced to learn how to iron because guess what! He never had ironed a shirt in his life. And this is considered hazing, and illegal. The lesson being that 99% of "hazing" is teaching important life skills. The other 1% is unnecessary and shouldn't be allowed, and actives should know better than to risk their charter and lives of pledges for any reason. Teaching a kid how to iron is not a risk management issue.
Being a greek, I have a difficult time realizing how my affiliation can be met with such fear and such animosity without any attempt at understanding. Granted I agree many greeks haven't done a great PR job, but here are some facts.
As the poster with the statistics showed, greeks do have a higher incidence of success than even regular college students. Maybe it's that people who are bound to be successful are serial joiners, or maybe its due to some skills learned while being a greek or the connections that are made because of this membership.
One poster talked about event planning. Frats have it too, and believe me event planning is hell, but its a rewarding hell and an important life skill. Risk management and problem solving are huge skills. Dare I say it some Greeks even learn maturity and responsibility. Often it involves them learning from mistakes, but still the lesson is learned. Also commonly overlooked by anti greeks are the programs in benevolence and community service a vast majority of chapters undertake. Also is the fact that many new chapters are opening up as substance free, especially under my nationals, which now requires this.
Besides these skills are, as cheesy as it sounds, the lifelong bonds greeks make. Alumni networks are strong in greek organizations. Lasting connections are helpful in every aspect of life. In no way to they stunt your "growth" whatever that is supposed to mean. On the contrary, most greek organizations, for the right people, are instigators of personal growth. Sadly these sorts of stories don't make national news. They care about death and scandal and tarnishing broad groups in one fell swoop.
Perhaps the problem lies in greeks not caring about having a positive PR machine, but maybe we need one.
Perhaps the reason that greeks are met with such fear is because of the illusion that frats are stuck up and not inclusive. At my school, at least, frats are very inclusive, anyone who stops by is welcome to hang out. This is not to say a kid is guaranteed membership, but being greek isn't for everyone, and we try to pick out kids who fit. I don't see employers getting ripped apart for only choosing who they perceive as the best candiates, but it happens with greeks all the time. And being in a certain organization, or not being in one at all doesnt make you cool or uncool. I know plenty of frat guys who are total dorks and plently of non affiliates who are awesome, great people.</p>
<p>Greek stereotypes are the same as any stereotypes and should be treated as such. Not every black person wants to rob you, not every asian has his head in a book and a 1600 SAT score, not every southerner is a redneck republican, and not every greek is a sadistic misogynist alcoholic. </p>
<p>This is just my 2 cents being an officer in a greek organization. Take it with a grain of salt or call this BS if you want to, but this is how it is, or at least it is in my experience. </p>
<p>Alcohol is not the devil, and in many chapters it still exists as an important part of greek life. However, the consumption of alcohol, even to excess by a few members, does not even come close to negating the positive aspects that greek membership provides. </p>
<p>Fraternities are not "drinking clubs" and you do not "buy your friends." This is especially true at my school where we have small chapters and deferred rush, so normally entire groups of friends pledge together. </p>
<p>Thank you for your time, if anyone read this through all the way. And sorry I can't reveal my school or national affiliation if anyone cares to ask. </p>
<p>Rico</p>
<p>(sorry if it was answered already, i couldnt get through all 11 pages of posts)</p>
<p>what i want to know is, how good are the networking opportunities within greeks? do many alumni go back to help out the current greeks? or do they just claim that there are networking opportunities when only a couple actually do this?</p>
<p>oh and also, what are the pros/cons of joining specific frats, say for example, an asian interest frat or a pre-law or business frat? what are the differences and similarities? thanks</p>