<p>I was at Penn State for their homecoming football game a few months ago, and as we were walking to the game there were people all over the place drinking. After the game was tons of tailgating and drinking going on there. As i said earlier, my school has a dry campus, and we don't have a football team.. so that is just that much less drinking that happens.</p>
<p>Lizschup, regarding the greekchat.com adult posters, I paid closer attention to the posters who had thousands of posts and seemed to speak with some authority. I poked around the site -in sections not discussing the risk management- and read that some posters had been in GLO for a good number of years while other described their daily occupations. </p>
<p>I understand and appreciate your efforts to provide a different viewpoint. The OP did ask for PROS and CONS, and your direct knowledge and experience with fraternities place you in a favored position to discuss the subject. On the other hand, I think that the current generation of students is pushing the envelope much farther than in the past, especially with alcohol. It is possible that past generations were no different, but it seems that the situation is spinning out of control. The unfortunate deaths that were listed on the quoted website really seem to indicate that the problem is reaching alarming proportions. </p>
<p>When reading reports of the deaths, it is easy to find a recurring theme: more than doling out blame, most grief-stricken parents hope that the death of their loved one would not be in vain. Alas, that message tends to fall on deaf ears and quickly dissipate. And then, a few weeks later, a similar scenario unfolds once again ...</p>
<p>Again, my hope is that all parties involved would work together to find temporary and long-term solutions. The biggest problem is that the solution cannot be mild and requires a massive dose of courage: there is ample evidence that the (ab)use of liquor and college life are not very compatible. The only question is to what degree do we want to separate them!</p>
<p>I've actually changed my mind after reading this thread. I am now in favor of residential fraternity and sorority houses. I think the serve a vital purpose in improving the quality of life on campus by removing the self-selected binge drinkers from the normal day-to-day social life of the school.</p>
<p>IMO, the optimum arrangement is independent fraternity housing on private property adjacent to campus -- as in the U of Colorado model.</p>
<p>I believe that college administrators should exercise little or no control over frats and sororities, giving no official sanction to any of them. That way, the organizations can be free to operate as they please.</p>
<p>The only roles the college should play in fraternities or sororities is assisting the local law enforcment in investigating and prosecuting crimes and expelling students who violate campus regulations, including honor code regulations about reporting violations. For example, any students who participated in the hazing of Mr. Bailey or failed to report his medical emergency while scribbling on him should be immediately expelled and U of Colorado should assist the authorities in bringing homicide or manslaughter charges.</p>
<p>OK, as Xiggi said, the original poster asked for Pro's AND Con's to going Greek. Just to summarize what has been said here, with the caveat that NOT ALL frats or sororities are alike. </p>
<p>Pro's
1. Potentially less expensive to live in a Greek house
2. Ability to meet people and make long lasting contacts
3. Parties and social life
4. ability to participate in community service
5. The "fun" of alcohol; better access to alcohol.
6. feeling of belonging</p>
<p>Con's
1. Better chance of drinking more than the typical college student on a regular basis
2. Potential risks of hazing and other activities that get out of hand</p>
<p>Now, to be fair, if we're going to say that "all" or "most" college students drink, then we should probably also say that "all" or "most" college students also have the opportunity through other school-sponsored venues to participate in community service, to make long lasting contacts and friendships, and to live off-campus in cheaper housing. And, it's also possible to get that "feeling of belonging" in other ways on campus as well. Certainly students who attend schools where there is no Greek system have no problem obtaining all of these things. I was not in a sorority and I did or experienced all of those things myself.</p>
<p>So - the "pro's" of joining a greek house boil down to: parties and social life and the "fun" of alcohol and easier access to alcohol. The rest of the benefits of Greek life you can get elsewhere on campus. Actually, since many have said that "most" college students drink, I suppose you could also say that alcohol is available without frats/sorority membership. Basically, therefore, the pro's and con's of joining a Greek system boil down pretty much evenly (assuming that most people who join frats will not die or be injured in a hazing or other event). As we've been saying, it's up to the individual to decide what is important to them in their college experience but certainly most - if not all - of the benefits of going Greek are readily available in other ways.</p>
<p>I think the size and structure of a frat house provides lots more possibility for social bonding than does living off campus with three buddies. You also have a much better chance to play intramural sports, have a great walk to campus location at a reasonable price, and still do all the other outside clubs and such if you wish to.</p>
<p>To the "pro" list, you need to add the organizational/leadership opportunities that come from being in a frat. Frats are virtually mini-corporations which operate under set rules. The frats must organize/budget and purchase everything associated with running the house. This includes hiring full-time employees.</p>
<p>As far as your "cons", #1 is based on choice - if a person wants to be a heavy drinker they will be so regardless of whether they are in a frat. The difference is that in a well-run frat there will be people around you that are not drinking and that can watch out for you. Note that in at least one of alcohol-related deaths, the student who died did so at his apartment - not the frat house #2 can be avoided by excercizing your right and responisibility of investigating a frat that you are about to pledge.</p>
<p>After reading this thread I feel obligated to respond. I am quite offended by a number of the stereotypes and prejudices ADULTS have. I always remember my parents teaching me the opposite. I go to MIT and am a member of a fraternity. About half of all males decided to join fraternities here. Binge drinking is not the focus of what we do, and certainly not the reason why I pledged. Yes we have parties where alcohol is present, but it is in a very controlled environment. We have about 2 open parties a semester. Anyone (girls and other guys) are welcome. At the door you have to show an ID if you expect to be served alcohol. If you are of legal age you get a wristband. Bartenders (who are all 21+) only serve people with wristbands and mark their wristband...once a certain number of drinks is reached you are not allowed anymore drinks. No hard alcohol is allowed. We try to prevent people from bringing it in, and if anyone is seen with it in the party they have either give it to us or leave. All brothers have jobs during the party, during which no brothers are allowed to drink. The party has to be registered with MIT, and a CP comes by at least once during the night. All MIT fraternities have to be this responsible due to the theat of going on probation, having their next rush restricted, or even losing their house/charter. MIT owns our house and leases it to us...so we are at their mercy. The fraternities are governed by a council made up of all undergraduates. In cases where violations have been made, they hand down very harsh punishments.</p>
<p>My fraternity had a 4.4 (out of 5.0) GPA last year. In fact, fraternities as a whole have a higher average GPA than the dorms. This is one of the reasons I joined. I have many resources available to me for guidance in classes, my major, getting jobs, etc. </p>
<p>Not all fraternities are equal, that should be common sense.</p>
<p>Fundingfather - Good point about leadership opportunities. Although, again, there are other opportunities for leadership on every college campus. As I said, certainly on campuses where frats/sororities don't exist there are students who get leadership experience.</p>
<p>Another pro is the sense of pride that comes from belonging to a fraternity and living in a special place. I have lived on campus in the dorms, off campus in a rental house, and I am now living in my fraternity. I must say that now that I am part of a fraternity I have a lot of pride for the house I live in. There is a connection that was never there in the dorms or even living with other friends in a house in collegetown. I may never live in a house as nice as my fraternity house...it is a mansion that used to be owned by the founder of my university. It has 1/2 million dollar chandeliers, ornate woodwork, doors valued at $30,000 each, and a ton of history since it was build in 1867. This pride is shared by everyone in the house, we respect where we live and are always trying to improve it by remolding the basement ourselves, cleaning on a weekly basis, remolding the attic, and fixing what needs to be fixed. You develop pride in your home...as an alumni, I would donate money to my fraternity before my college just because of the pride for the brotherhood and house I am fortunate enough to live in. This pro is not meant to be debated, but rather another thing for you to think about when deciding to join a fraternity or sorority.</p>
<p>Good point spn - pride is an intangible but definitely a benefit.</p>
<p>Dmar:</p>
<p>You are aware that MIT made a $6 million settlement of a civil lawsuit by the family of an MIT frat boy death in 1997?</p>
<p>"I've raised my kid for 18 years and never had a problem. I send him off to a prestigious institution, and they kill him in five weeks."</p>
<p>This case got so much national attention that Massachusetts politicians cracked down on college alcohol abuse across the state.</p>
<p>Tell the truth. Those two times a year are the only times people consume alcohol in your frat house?</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>About half of all males decided to join fraternities here. </p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>What choice do they have? MIT made a decision long ago to turn over the responsibility for its housing to fraternities. Where else are you going to live?</p>
<p>I like Carolyns pros/cons list and the amendments by other posters.
I dont mean to drudge allof this up again, and the rest of the people on here dont have to bother to read this. I just want to respond to some of the comments that were directed at me earlier:
In academic circles, your school's reputation is a hard-drinking, frat-boy place. Read the Fiske Guide entry.
Interesteddad, I am fully aware of how my school is stereotyped. My point was that it doesnt deserve its stereotypes. Part of its boys club image still sticks to it from decades ago, even though it has ceased to be true. I know what the Fiske Guide says, but since I go there, I trust what Ive experienced first-hand more than what Ive read in a book. There are people who are hard-drinkers, and obviously there are frat boys. But I would not agree that my school is a hard-drinking, frat-boy place. Since you do not go there and can only get ideas about it from books. And I think academic circles pay more attention to the academic accomplishments of the college and its students than to the presence of a Greek scene on its campus. </p>
<p>What I do not see from any supporters is the simplest of acknowlegdment that the fraternities DO contribute to the growing problem and have DIRECTLY caused the death of fellow brothers.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I have acknowledged/responded to that several times in my previous posts.</p>
<p>Clearly there are students who drink very irresponsibly, and there are fraternity members that encourage or commit contemptible acts.
I acknowledge that bad things do go on in frats.
I do not mean to say that binge drinking isn't a serious issue and doesn't go on.
Other individuals, or Greek houses can share part of the responsibility for the deaths, but again, I don't think it means the entire Greek system is at fault.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>There are people who are hard-drinkers, and obviously there are frat boys. But I would not agree that my school is a hard-drinking, frat-boy place. </p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>25% of the students are frat-boys or sorority girls -- a huge number by New England standards. How can the stereotype be misleading when the college's own stats back it up?</p>
<p>Nobody thinks "their" college deserves its stereotypes. But, it seems to me that the stereotypes are usually pretty spot on. Not for EVERY student. For example, Williams certainly has some nerdy, intellectual, non-jock students. But, the stereotypes aren't cut from whole cloth. They usually capture the overall ambience of the school pretty well.</p>
<p>Kelsey, you are correct. You did acknowledge the culpability issue, and it was my mistake to overlook your statements.</p>
<p>InterestedDad, I'm still interested in your connection to the greek system...care to share with us?</p>
<p>ID said: "Tell the truth. Those two times a year are the only times people consume alcohol in your frat house?"</p>
<p>Suppose that this were not the case and that alcohol is consumed on a regular but informal basis by the brothers. If this is an indictment against frats then you should also wage your crusade against dorms and apartments since they clearly have an abundance of drinking in them as well.</p>
<p>ID--The Greek scene has a strong presence on my campus. I wasn't objecting to that. I just objecting to the negative connotations you insist on associating with it. To call it a "hard-drinking, frat-boy place" IS painting it with a rather broad brush, and detracting from its diverse, vibrant social life.
Xiggi--Thank you. I'd also like to add that while I don't always agree with your posts, I've been impressed with them and with your maturity.</p>
<p>With my opinion of the "Greek system", how could you possibly think I have a connection with a fraternity? Sheesh.</p>
<p>As I say, though, I'm a convert. I now see a big PRO for off-campus residential frats that I had never considered. Actually, my daughter sold me on the benefits of fraternities at her school -- the frats get the rowdies out of the dorms and the all-campus parties. Plus, if anyone wants to play drinking games on a Tuesday night, they have somewhere to go.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>If this is an indictment against frats then you should also wage your crusade against dorms and apartments since they clearly have an abundance of drinking in them as well.</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>There's a difference. I've never had a non frat-member college student be hypocritical enough to tell me that drinking DOESN'T occur in the dorms. Of course, college kids drink. That's no surprise.</p>
<p>I would be a lot more impressed if frat boys just said, "Hell yeah, we're frat boys, of course we drink in the frat house" instead of trying to convince me their organizations are like monasteries and they joined because of the opportunities to raise money for the Ronald McDonald house. Who is kidding who?</p>
<p>-ID, thats what I thought, you are making all these claims and you barely even know what goes on in a fraternity, other than what the media tells you.</p>
<p>-Open question: just out of curiosity, what do people think hazing is? What do you think goes on when pledges are hazed?</p>