<p>One of D's comments senior year that cracked me up, but had a large degree of generalized truth, was, "Dad, you're a pretty demanding parent. But if we were Jewish you'd be normal and if we were Asian you'd be easy." Her h.s. was about 12 percent Asian and 20 percent Jewish--dunno what <em>that</em> overlap was--so she had plenty of datapoints to cross-reference.</p>
<p>FresnoMom, we did something similar: the TV generally wasn't on until homework was done. During election years, D would be standing watching coverage while "on the way to the bathroom" or otherwise peaking around the corner. For the most part, we kept it off completely until homework was done. Sometimes, this meant if was off for weeks at a time except when we all watched a DVD together.</p>
<p>So many generalizations have been popping up about asian families in this thread it is absolutely crazy. Well, those are the ones that you have made, but these are the ones I have made. My parents are immigrants directly from Vietnam so I am a first generation Asian-American.
I was under the presumption after I learned english to enter the schooling system that all white kids were lazy and unmotivated. They always had the lowest grades. Most of this was because they were never disciplined for anything. If they did get low grades, the parents would just say, "thats ok, you can just try harder next time." and leave the issue at that. Now why would I want that?</p>
<p>I'm older now of course and now see that that is actually wrong. White parents can motivate their kids just as well as the next. I honestly don't see why these stereotypes still exist because they never apply to the overwhelming majority, but rather the minority that we tend to pick out to show the extremes.</p>
<p>Certainly, there are so many exceptions, but I think there are cultural tendencies that are observable in the Asian population. I have heard and read that in a number of Asian countries, students are primed from an extremely young age for academic examinations that will determine who gets to pursue certain careers. There is intense family and societal pressure to succeed, and students study for these for years. It is also observable that music lessons are an extremely high priority in the Asian population (a good thing, I think, if its not coerced), hence the vast numbers of tiny asian violin and piano players, many of whom later receive major recognition at the regional, state and national level.
So, while stereotypes are always a problem, there are cultural values that clearly permeate groups. On an anecdotal level, I can say that I know of Asian (as well as Jewish) families where the children were afraid to tell parents that they weren't going to pursue medicine , and others where the parents seemed unconcerned when their child showed worrisome signs of stress over academics. However, I am sure that there are many Asian families who would not prioritize academic/professional success to this extent.</p>
<p>I thought I would chime in as I happen to be an "Asian parent", albeit a South Asian parent. This article seems to ignore South Asians and seems to focus more on Korea, China etc. The undergrad percentage though (25% in Stanford, 41% in Berkeley) include South Asians as well. I am always a little puzzled by this: the term Asian seems to refer more to certain countries (China, Japan, Korea) and ignore all the others?</p>
<p>Anyway my 2 cents as an Asian parent: I do expect my kids to perform to the best of their abilities but I definitely value their happiness more than any grade/awards they bring. My daughter is a HS senior and she has a fulfilling social life, takes part in activities she enjoys and has a 4.0 GPA. My hope has been to instill a love of learning in my kids when they are young so that they remain self-motivated when they grow up. She knows we wont freak out if she gets a B, as long as we knew she gave it her best shot. Again getting into HYPS is not the goal, but more of doing her best wherever she goes. I have lots of Asian friends and I think they are all pretty similar. Sometimes I do resent the generalization that we are a grade obsessed lot. We definitely want our kids to benefit from the different education system here - which does not promote rote-learning (like back home) but fosters creativity.</p>
<p>I don't like to generalize about any group of people or pass judgement. And there are extremes in any culture. The extremes sometimes talked about on this forum with some Asian parents do cause me to pause. I do recall a thread a long time ago on CC where an Asian student discussed his situation with his parents and what he was allowed to pursue with college and the whole thing about grades and rank and scores and how anything less than perfect would not do. I know this is just an extreme so do not like to stereoptype though that thread made me sad at the time.</p>
<p>This past weekend, I saw the Broadway musical of The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. First of all, it was very creatively written and well done. Very enjoyable. I did have a moment when I thought of that old Asian thread on CC because one of the characters, Miss Park, a middle school aged speller in the bee, embodied this stereotype with the parental pressures to be perfect and very advanced at everything, etc. It was pretty funny as her character fit everything in the stereotype. Then the kid decided to lose the bee on purpose and how happy she was. You'd have had to seen it. Really fits this discussion though!~</p>
<p>Usually, I see this type of upbringing in immigrant families, like mine and some of my friends. Parents of those families do not have the chance to fully chase their dreams. So, they, good-intentioned for the most part, live through their kids. They want us to grab the opportunities they couldn't have possibly taken for themselves. </p>
<p>My parents always say to me that 1.) "I don't want you to regret your past and have doors shut on you." and 2.) "I work my butt off to give you the best, so you better have something to show for it." And, I think these two sayings sum up why us kids endure the rigidness of our parents. We do it for ourselves to open our futures. We do it for our parents out of guilt and gratitude. If taken to the extreme, it can hurt us and that us is what we should watch for when we strive for success.</p>
<p>Donemom - Say this was a slip of your fingers. Tiny Asians? How about Yao Ming? Have you ever been to Asia? It ain't like that any more - not in China and not in India.</p>
<p>Alumother, Of course, I meant very young (like 4-5 year olds!) ..hence the word "later" in my post, referring to when they are older. Thank you, sjmom2329, for clarifying on my behalf!</p>
<p>I'm 4th generation Asian-American and went to a predominantly Asian shool (but with a lot of 3rd and 4th geners like myself).</p>
<p>I can assure you that while the strictness waters down, the general pressure and ASSUMPTION of success is still there. I still wasn't allowed to do poorly, get in trouble, or shame the family :) My dad was bad at math, so that relieved a lot of the pressure and stereotypical expectations of my success.</p>
<p>Garland, my bad! I'm not sure if those reading this thread are familiar with this musical or are about to see it. I took that chance! YOU saw it so I am wrong. Did ya like it? I thought it was cleverly written! Ok, back to to the topic at hand. That character did fit this topic though and it sure did remind me of these CC discussions in a funny way. She even played piano in the show, lol. </p>
<p>And just to relate to the parent cafe, while I am at it, they had Harriet Meers jokes in the performance I saw.
Ok, I'm done.
Susan</p>
<p>I am an Asian (Chinese to be specific), my parents are Asians and we still live in an Asian society.</p>
<p>I have no idea if parents of other ethnic groups have this fixation of putting all their hopes on their children, but a lot of Chinese do feel a need to push their children to do well because they see their children as their own continuation. Especially with the one child policy in China, parents are placing all their hopes and aspirations on the one child, which makes it more natural for them to pressurize the child and put him or her in all types of classes. I am not saying that this is wonderful, but it is at least understandable.</p>
<p>I have often heard that after a few generations, Asian-Americans lose this fixation for their kids to do well academically. I don't know if it is true, but I do think that USA allows more freedom for children to develop their interests and 'succeed' in different ways. Not so in many Asian countries. China had about 7 million high school seniors who sat for the college entrance exam this year, less than one third was accepted into university. The exam is based entirely on academic results, and one mark makes a lot of difference. Students almost start preparing for the exam from their first day of school. My cousin who is in second grade spends more time on his homework than I do. Many parents do feel that obsession with academics is unhealthy, but they have no choice. They want their children to at least succeed, and success, right now, seems only to stem from outstanding academic results. Once they start having this mentality, it's hard to change. The college exam, by the way, is fiendishly hard. A lot of American students complain about Chinese students slashing the curve in US universities, but the Chinese probably find what they are learning in US much much easier than what they did in China. It's extremely hard to do well for the exam without spending a lot of time and going for extra lessons. </p>
<p>My parents never forced me to top the level. They didn't think that was what life was about, and doing better than everyone else wasn't something entirely in your control. They did, however, want me to give my best shot for everything that I did, regardless of whether it was related to academics. My parents, unfortunately, do not seem to represent the majority of Asian parents judging from the adults I know. This is likely to be a very biased and subjective observation, please feel free to correct me :) </p>
<p>p.s. I wonder if parents here would feel differently if their children were in Singapore's rather elitist education system where students are streamed according to their academic performance in as early as fourth grade.</p>
<p>Rayy, that's a good point about how different the educational systems are. I know many international students even from Europe comment on how much easier US college courses are, drastically fewer students fail, and the US students seem to view doing well more as their right.</p>
<p>I saw it last summer, Soozie...it was fantastic. I love the music, especially the ballad with Olive and her parents. And very eery. My D was in the National Spelling Bee 3 years in a row when she was 9, 10, and 11...much of the show seemed way too familiar.</p>
<p>There are so many insights in this thread.
Vinin's point about looking for extreme examples in different groups;
Rayvy's about the importance of success on standardized tests (to the exclusion of other criteria for college admission such as ECs or even GPAs) and the transference of the attitude generated by this emphasis to an American context:imagine if college entrance depended solely on AP exams, would students still be encouraged to do ECs?
the difference between first-generation and third-generation cohorts in terms of acculturation and expectations.
All these should be taken into account as we discuss child-raising, especially as it relates to college.
There is yet one more dimension that I have not seen discussed: the inspiration provided by examples of success within one's own group. Asian parents, many of whom were already well-educated before coming to the US, can point to men and women who have achieved success through academic paths, thus reinforcing their belief in education as the principal, if not the only, path to success.</p>