<p>Garland,
I do apologize. I'll just add that there are many characters in the musical and as it takes place at a spelling bee, obviously each person is eliminated for one reason or another and so what I mentioned about this one character is not nearly the plot so much but one teensy thing that happens in the show. The fact that the Asian girl had to be perfect in everything and doesn't win the bee is somewhat a predictable part of the plot. </p>
<p>Quiltguru, yes, the song with Olive and her parents was what my D felt was the best song musically in the show. They all did have beautiful voices. You may not know but the girl playing Olive graduated from the Musical Theater program at the university where I think you are affiliated or live near. Your D should put on her app, by the way, perhaps as an interesting tidbit about herself, an accomplishment....participation in the National Spelling Bee onto the resume. While it is not in high school, it is a significant honor from younger and also adds an interesting piece in her background.</p>
<p>As I mentioned previously, I think in many of these discussions, stereotypes come up which are derived from the extreme examples from a culture. As some kids here attest, not all Asian parents are like this to this degree at all. Someone also mentioned parallels to Jewish culture. I am from the latter cultural group and it is true that in my culture, education is stressed and valued. What I have not experienced or not seen is this degee of extremism with that. In my personal experience, getting an education, doing your best and so forth was emphasized as it is with my own kids. But nobody cares if you are at the top, the best person out there, forces you to attend particular schools or do particular activities. The kids have choices what activities to do, which majors, which schools. It is just expected that you will go to college and you will try to get good grades and that sort of thing. There are not the pressures so much or expectations to be the winner or the best. My kids could choose any college they wanted and we gave no input on their list or final choice. Same with majors. They never got paid for grades or rewarded for them. They were expected to put in the effort to do well or their personal best. I saw them as having inner drive. So, while education can be major in a culture, some still follow the kids' choices rather than make the kids follow what they insist upon. The kids' choices are within an overall umbrella to get an education and to do well. Education is thought of as coming first. I imagine many Asians are like this and not like the extreme examples. The extreme examples, however, do make me sad even though I fully understand the basis of where they are coming from in their culture.</p>
Rayy, that's a good point about how different the educational systems are. I know many international students even from Europe comment on how much easier US college courses are, drastically fewer students fail, and the US students seem to view doing well more as their right.
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<p>However, I've been told by many Europeans and Japanese that the American college system is far more intensive than in their home countries.</p>
<p>While I can't verify that in most European countries, I can verify that in Japan (having attended school in Japan.) There's no comparison. The US is still on top when it comes to colleges.</p>
<p>Anyway, I have to weigh in on the Asian parents thing...</p>
<p>My girlfriend's parents are from China. Her dad, however, was educated in the US at UCLA and MIT. So, he's a bit more "American" than her mom. This makes for interesting times. When my girlfriend chose UCLA, her mom thought it was a no-name school because her siblings all went there. Her dad attempted to explain that it was great, and that they just had smart kids, but because it seemed "common" it couldn't be any good.</p>
<p>And the piano competition thing backfired. My girlfriend hates the darn thing now.</p>
<p>I should probably clarify my statment...most Europeans I know who come to the US for grad school have found US schools easier at the undergraduate level. Most Asians I know come ot the US for college (many of whom cannot get accepted into colleges in Korea or China because it is more competitive). I don't really know any Japanese international studnets so I can't speak about Japan.</p>
<p>Britons who have taken A levels, French students who have taken the Baccalaureat, Germans who have taken the Abitur, all qualify for Advanced Standing, suggesting that their high school preparation puts them at the second year level in college.
Additionally, European universities train their students to focus on only one field (there is a move toward a more American-like menu-style curriculum), so by the time they go into graduate school, they have acquired a deeper, though more narrow knowledge of their subject matter. This advantage dissipates against the larger breadth of knowledge many American students can bring to the study of their topic. The trend now is toward multidisciplinary approaches to knowledge, as witness the proliferation of new programs that did not exist 20 years ago or were just starting: biomedicine, biochemistry, biophysics, biostatistics, medical anthropology, etc...
Asian universities, however, are different. I have been told by many students from Japan and Korea that it is very hard to get into the top universities, but once there, students slack off. They know their degrees from the prestigious universities as opposed to their actual performance there will get them into great careers. So all the effort goes into being admitted into prestigious colleges. We don't hear much about the pressure on college students in Japan or Korea.</p>
<p>A little off topic, but did any of you see the movie Spellbound? We just saw it for the first time this summer, but I think it's a couple years old. Anyway, I felt sorry for some of those kids who spent hours and hours with tutors and had no life! :(<br>
Some of them did seem to be very self-motivated (like the girl who had the Edith Bunker-like mother).
I found myself cheering for the kids who obviously were "underdogs"; they were more like regular kids not from wealthy families.</p>
<p>soozievt, yup we know she's from U of M (as are many actors currently on Broadway including Hunter Foster and Gavin Creel). It's a great MT program. </p>
<p>And, yup, she's mentioning her NSB participation as did her GC in her GC letter. Mostly in the context of how she describes herself as a "verbalist"...loves words.</p>
<p>It was a compelling documentary. The winner went to the same public middle school as my older daughter (graduated a few years before her) and yes, she was (South) Asian.</p>
<p>And now Nupur is a sophomore at University of Michigan!!! We know her...she's one great kid who is as normal as could be imagined. Her parents are NOT pushy parents. Nupur did it all on her own.</p>
<p>I know, a high school senior checking out the parents forum, I'm weird.</p>
<p>Neither of my parents went to college, my dad didn't even graduate high school. They expected us to do well, but not be spectacular. My brother graduated a year ago and went to a small unheard of LAC in Nevada and this year he went to India, but not for school, just to hang out for a year I guess. He's using mostly his own money so they don't really care. They just want him to do what makes him happy - and he is. (I think.)</p>
<p>On the other hand, I'm my school valedictorian in the IB program and try to push for perfection. That doesn't necessarily mean HYP, and I think it's good that my parents didn't pressure me into "SUCCEED AND GO TO AN IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL WITH A FULL SCHOLARSHIP" (though I still need the scholarship) because I know I can be satisfied if I go to University of Chicago or New York University, or somewhere like that. I won't be disappointing them, or myself. I just don't want to go to a state school, and they'd still be proud of me for doing that too. I think by the fact that I guess I "exceeded" my parents expectations, helps me have more confidence in myself and helps me to be happier.</p>
<p>Don't pressure your kids like that, they're either naturally high achievers or they aren't. Let them be whoever they are.</p>
<p>i'm sure many of you have read The Joy Luck Club. It describes very well the lives and feelings of immigrant, Chinese families in the US. Ironically, I personally can't stand to read it after that once because it was so truthful to me, it hurt. I identify with it so much that it pains me to read it. </p>
<p>And yea, the piano competition thing backfired on me too, I quit 2 years ago after 10 years and have been deemed a failure by my mother. i started another instrument but my senior year has gotten me so busy I've neglected it. so i'm always a failure....</p>
<p>TheRestIsSilence -- sometimes parents, because we love our kids so much, pressure them to achieve what we think is in their best interests. I'm sure your parents think that you are wonderful and are very proud of you! It's just that parents aren't perfect, either. As far as piano goes, you may find that your interest is rekindled when it's not a point of contention. S1 drove me a little crazy in his senior year, because he didn't practice as much as I thought he should. (Of course, he had 7 classes including 5 APs). He has begun lessons again in college, and seems to really enjoy it. So don't let your parents sell the piano yet!</p>
<p>TheRestIsSilence. You are the sole arbiter of whether your life is a success or a failure. You get to decide. That's the key part of American culture to adapt, without losing everything else that keeps you close to your family. And BTW, no such thing as being a failure at 18.</p>
<p>One of my parents was actually born in the United Kingdom, and no, university in Europe is generally less intense and much easier.</p>
<p>A-levels are the equivalent of AP courses...and admissions to university only relies upon those scores, not really extracurriculars or anything else. (Even Oxbridge accepts about 25% of applicants, whereas Harvard accepts 9% or so.)</p>
<p>Admission to American universities is much more difficult as well, and students are required to be much more well-rounded.</p>
<p>Additionally, I know quite a few exchange students who have said that Berkeley--my university--gives a lot more work to the students. Some exchange students say that it's more intense here than back in their home countries. </p>
<p>Additionally, a Belgian said that you have a lot more time for extracurriculars in Europe outside of your academics in comparison to the United States.</p>
<p>The education system in America is still top-notch, but it does depend upon the university.</p>
<p>thank you to both of you. i do realize that, so i don't let the burden of my parents weigh on me /too/ much. when my parents and I are both in good moods, we compromise between who i am and who my parents want me to be =) i know they could be worse.</p>
<p>and sjmom2329, you are absolutely correct - it was the competition that i hated. i actually miss playing the piano now, and wish i had maintained my piano skill. so i will definitely try to take it up again in college...</p>
<p>TheRestIsSilence,
I agree that The Joy Luck Club is a mirror of the dynamics in the immigrant Chinese family. I, too, felt that Amy Tan portrayed my life on the big screen. It took many years to figure out that the "unspoken" was just as important as what was actually communicated. Once I was able to accept that my parents would not change their core values/way of thinking, I did not expend precious time and energy fighting it and trying to change them. Going away to college and building a life of my own helped me to get beyond all that. In the meantime, focus on the positive and the future...best of luck!</p>
<p>I was raised by Asian parents and now I am one. The rigid life described by the Kim sisters "Top of the Class: How Asian Parents Raise High Achievers - and How You Can Too," is totally foreign to me. My parents never spent a second tutoring me. We watched TV every second we were awake- Lost in Space, Gilligan's Island, Brady Bunch ,Monkees. I can answer any trivia question. I went to MIT . The difference with Asian parents is that they are not afraid to have their kids mad at them. They set limits and expectations. They say "NO" a lot.They do not supply beer for their kids' parties. We don't equate drinking until you throw up with "fun" like many other parents.
If you want to be an Asian parent, all you have to do is present a clear expectation that your child will work to the best of their ability. I have three sons, two with learning disabilities. I know their limitations. #1 is dyslexic . Despite this, he is in law school (over my objections-not all Asian parents want lawyer sons : )) He works very hard for every accomplishment and I never had to push him to do anything. #2 finds almost everything easy so I did find challenges for him- not because I wanted to rack up his stats(as the guidance counselors accused) but because I wanted him to discover a place where he was not the smartest or the best and learn to be comfortable with that before he went to college. I saw several of my classmates at MIT drop out because they couldn't handle the fall from the top of the class. He is now a double math biology major at MIT. I did not tutor him in anything. #3 still in high school, has no interest in math and science and is not taking honors in those fields but is passionate about history and creative writing so I am on the lookout for a group with similar interests so he can get feedback on his novel.
The Kim sisters do a big disservice to all parents who set expectations for their kids. They make it seem as though every Asian kid has been abused and that is the only way to have an academically achieving child. Therefore, the sign of a good parent is one who has a slacker boomerang because THAT kid was raised with love.
In our wealthy, well supported school system, some parents spend tens of thousands of dollars for their children to play hockey year round-basically every minute the kid is not in school and sometimes even when he is supposed to be there. However, if you try to encourage your child academically in any way, you are a stress producing monster. #2 son had 4 friends as smart as he was in grade school who drifted away as they got older. Rather than set limits, their parents sent them to boarding schools and Outward Bound in an effort to straighten them out . One has already been suspended from college. That is the real tragedy. These kids certainly have the ability to do well, they just don't.</p>
<p>Quote:
They are not afraid to have their kids mad at them. They set limits and expectations. They say "NO" a lot.</p>
<p>I am 16 and tute, I think that your parenting methods are totally and completely awesome and you are totally and completely correct. </p>
<p>Most of my friends are Asian, and all of them try really REALLY hard in school...but they have no common sense and learn straight out of books. But the smartest of all of them (she is Asian also) has parents like yourself, tute, and she is incredibly smart, but extremely humble....so you never feel like you aren't intelligent enough to carry on a fun conversation with her.</p>